Why do 1.2 AA requires skill

[big_sammy_b]

Re: Why do 1.2 AA requires skill

Everyone knows the new AA is a load of crap and the pilots effectiveness has fallen through the floor. No point in talking about it unless you are petitioning to get it fixed.

By the way, I have spent FAR more time in infantry battles than I have in the air.

I can't believe people are now complaining about the AA thats been fixed?

Before everyopne moaned the AA wasn't effective and the pilots were untouchable, well now they aren't and i had a good ras last night flying the attack chopper and it hasn't ruined it its still good fun and effective to use its just now you really have to be careful with it so now finally theres somthing to counteract helis and jets and thats a good thing and also means people aren't fighting over the air veihicles so much :)

My only complaint is with the GL when playing as assault i don't mind the 'can't bunnyhop whilst firing' thing but the nade acts well wierd now half the time it doesnt go off or bounces all over the place and they have recuced the nades splash damage aswell and before i thought the splash damage wasn't big enough as it was.

[Kattspya]

Re: Why do 1.2 AA requires skill

Disclaimer: I'm a helo pilot not a jet pilot.

Are AA sites suppose to be so complex that only skilled players can use it? Just like the TOW, .50 caliber MGs, and tanks, anyone should be able to use these weapon systems effectively regardless of skill. These weapons are supposed to be and is simple to use, tell me what has to be added into the process of scanning-locking-firing.

That is pure ********. A good tanker is much more effective than joe sixpack. The same goes for TOW and 50 cal. A lot less for the tow since the distances are pretty short but I've seen people miss with them.

The learning curve on planes are orders of magnitude above fixed AA. Its not v ery nice that skill had basically no input on effectiveness. You don't need any muscle memory to hande the AA. You could tell a new player exactly how to use the AA effectivly and he would have the same success as someone who's spent hours in the AA. No guide on how to be good in an airplane will make a newcomer crash less.

Don't tell me you guys are skilled in flying, yet unable to take extra measures of precaution to avoid SAM fire. Don't tell me you guys are aircraft veterans when many of you ***** than adapt. Don't tell me you guys are professionals when you no longer can fly like professionals anymore.

From what I've seen both on these forums many pilots welcome the new AA because it weeds out the good pilots from the bad. The only beef the they and I (from a helo perspective) have is that there is no need for skill to negate skill. You need at least 50 hours in either airplane or helo to become a decent pilot. If you have experience from other games and have a knack for it you will surpass even those with three times the play time. It's not very fair that someone can just press E wait for flares and solid tone and then press mouse1 twice to bring someone down. I could even accept that if they made it impossible for AA to ignore flares.

This patch is better than than the last (if you ignore the new bugs and the old ones made worse) but there need to be some small changes to the AA.

[BirdKiller]

Re: Why do 1.2 AA requires skill

Disclaimer: I'm a helo pilot not a jet pilot.

Noted, at the same time, I apologize if there's any confusion or irrelevance from my responses as I had some trouble comprehending your post.

That is pure ********. A good tanker is much more effective than joe sixpack. The same goes for TOW and 50 cal. A lot less for the tow since the distances are pretty short but I've seen people miss with them.

Eh? Are you saying these mentioned weapons are not simple to use? I am not directly stating that these weapons do not require any skills to be effective. I am simply saying that these weapons are meant to be simple and effective, with the skill augmenting its effectiveness.

The learning curve on planes are orders of magnitude above fixed AA. Its not v ery nice that skill had basically no input on effectiveness. You don't need any muscle memory to hande the AA. You could tell a new player exactly how to use the AA effectivly and he would have the same success as someone who's spent hours in the AA. No guide on how to be good in an airplane will make a newcomer crash less.

Exactly, AA should be simple to use and effective at the same time as it is now considering its only role is AA, while aircrafts have numerous roles and capabilties.

From what I've seen both on these forums many pilots welcome the new AA because it weeds out the good pilots from the bad. The only beef the they and I (from a helo perspective) have is that there is no need for skill to negate skill. You need at least 50 hours in either airplane or helo to become a decent pilot. If you have experience from other games and have a knack for it you will surpass even those with three times the play time. It's not very fair that someone can just press E wait for flares and solid tone and then press mouse1 twice to bring someone down. I could even accept that if they made it impossible for AA to ignore flares.

I agree that AA, in order to become effective against aircraft, has taken a heavy toll on helicopters, further deepening my regret of helicopter's HP being decreased. As for the aircraft vs. helicopter (I assume) comment, helicopters do still have a chance to avoid incoming missiles as these weapons do not ignore flares and missiles do miss time to time. If I have to choose a flying target I shot down less than the other, I would have to select helicopters. Now vulcans, that's a different story ^_^

[Kattspya]

Re: Why do 1.2 AA requires skill

The weapons you mentioned are simple yet effective but a skilled operator would be ten times or more effective than some random newbie. The same is not true for AA.

helicopters do still have a chance to avoid incoming missiles as these weapons do not ignore flares and missiles do miss time to time.

Yes, but you can't wait for the solid lock before deploying flares and that was quite possible in 1.1. If there are flares between the target and the missile it should go after the flare every time.

[Digital-Boy]

Re: Why do 1.2 AA requires skill

I tested out the missiles in single-player. I deliberately set up shots where the lock-on was still active but the shot was far less than perfect. That is to say, I tried to aim the AA missiles as bad as I could, and they STILL hit. What does that say about the amount of skill required to use AA missiles?

Furthermore, AA sites aren't the death-traps you make them to be. You are vulnerable in them, but not to the degree where you're fearing for your life every time you get in one. :p

[BirdKiller]

Re: Why do 1.2 AA requires skill

The weapons you mentioned are simple yet effective but a skilled operator would be ten times or more effective than some random newbie. The same is not true for AA.

Have ever had a thought maybe players didn't need to be skilled at using AA? From the matches I've been playing, it seems AA does not require any further skill or practice which I like. I feel everyone should be able to use AA effectively regardless of skill.

[Hu.Z_of_PLA]

Re: Why do 1.2 AA requires skill

I tested out the missiles in single-player. I deliberately set up shots where the lock-on was still active but the shot was far less than perfect. That is to say, I tried to aim the AA missiles as bad as I could, and they STILL hit. What does that say about the amount of skill required to use AA missiles?

Furthermore, AA sites aren't the death-traps you make them to be. You are vulnerable in them, but not to the degree where you're fearing for your life every time you get in one. :p

if something that force me to be stationary, expose my head and entire body, leave a glowing radar signature, and has its position memorized by most pilots are not the biggest death trap in this game, what is?

[Alcorr]

Re: Why do 1.2 AA requires skill

First post is a joke. Like romfbat said, you hop in, left click twice and the missiles do all the rest of the work...THATS why theres no skill...there just isn't.

And yeah heli pilots got shafted the worst... I don't even bother anymore and I used to be an expert heli pilot....until 1.2.

[Hu.Z_of_PLA]

Re: Why do 1.2 AA requires skill

First post is a joke. Like romfbat said, you hop in, left click twice and the missiles do all the rest of the work...THATS why theres no skill...there just isn't.

And yeah heli pilots got shafted the worst... I don't even bother anymore and I used to be an expert heli pilot....until 1.2.

you claim to be an expert but your KD in helicopter is even lower than mine, and I don't even fly helicopter that much.

If you constantly get whacked by AA, go back to single player and practice, "expert".

[Kattspya]

Re: Why do 1.2 AA requires skill

you claim to be an expert but your KD in helicopter is even lower than mine, and I don't even fly helicopter that much.

If you constantly get whacked by AA, go back to single player and practice, "expert".

If he's the pilot his KD isn't that bad. I would like to see his gunner before making any statements.

[Alcorr]

Re: Why do 1.2 AA requires skill

you claim to be an expert but your KD in helicopter is even lower than mine, and I don't even fly helicopter that much.

If you constantly get whacked by AA, go back to single player and practice, "expert".

1. My KD ratio is more like 8:1
2. This doesn't show in my stats because being in a chopper counts as flying a transport chopper (so you get zero kills), being a gunner in a chopper and being a pilot.
3. Im probably a pilot of transport just as much a gunner...

Thats why.

And btw whats YOUR in game name?

I line up tv missile shots for my random gunners all day long as well for shots i could have easily taken out myself. Same for the gunner in letting him kill stuff with cannon.

Also I play mostly on ghost town...so I get spawncamped in a chopper not to mention teamkilled for it....all those count as deaths as well.

[Hu.Z_of_PLA]

Re: Why do 1.2 AA requires skill

1. My KD ratio is more like 8:1
2. This doesn't show in my stats because being in a chopper counts as flying a transport chopper (so you get zero kills), being a gunner in a chopper and being a pilot.
3. Im probably a pilot of transport just as much a gunner...

Thats why.

And btw whats YOUR in game name?

[UCB]Hu.Z_of_PLA. My helicopter KD is low, because I normally don't fly helicopter, but when I fly them, I did better than you. At least I am not whining and pretend to be an expert.

At least I haven't get owned by 1.2 AA yet. If you feel the need to whine, really, go back to single player.

[Alcorr]

Re: Why do 1.2 AA requires skill

[UCB]Hu.Z_of_PLA. My helicopter KD is low, because I normally don't fly helicopter, but when I fly them, I did better than you. At least I am not whining and pretend to be an expert.

At least I haven't get owned by 1.2 AA yet. If you feel the need to whine, really, go back to single player.

umm HELLO!

My k/d ratio in chopper is much better than yours.

Yours is 2.14
Mine is 3.30

And as I said before when im actually a pilot in an attack heli....my kd ratio is on average 8:1...im estimating.

I play ghost town...there is more AA there on a per foot basis than on any other map in the game....

Two mobile AAs...5 stingers....1 enemy tank, 1 enemy apc, 2 50 cal FAVs always trying to shoot you down....etc....Not to mention killing anything on that map involves manuvering around all the buildings...and inbetween them.

Snipers everywhere with m95s trying to shoot you out. Tanks and apcs ALWAYS spawncamping the two heli spawns. Heli spawns always being decapped. Always being hit by friendly fire....etc.

Not to mention you obviously have nothing to say about me saying I fly transport as a pilot and im a gunner half the time anyways....and i line up shots for my gunner I could have EASILY taken out myself....

Skill isn't stats...skill is skill...you can't judge by the stats.

[Paas]

Re: Why do 1.2 AA requires skill

Oh and remember guys... this thread is trying to argue that AA actually takes skill to operate which is complete bullsh!t. Anyone can operate it and anyone with a brain should know that its not hard to use an AA.

Ok ok ok.. What do YOU propose happens to the A.A. so that it takes "skill"?

...also, mind you, making the missiles randomly miss doesn't bump the "skill" factor up anymore than what it currently is at. You would still be sitting and doing that exact same thing you're doing now in A.A., only you won't connect as often.

But... please, for the love of everything sane, what do you think needs to happen to allow "skill" to factor into A.A?

Quite frankly, I don't think you even have a solution. So, prove me wrong.

{WP}Paas

[Alcorr]

Re: Why do 1.2 AA requires skill

Ok ok ok.. What do YOU propose happens to the A.A. so that it takes "skill"?

...also, mind you. Making the rockets randomly miss doesn't bump the "skill" factor up anymore that it currently is. You will still be sitting and doing that exacty same thing you're doing now in A.A., only you won't connect as often.

But... please, for the love of everything sane, what do you think needs to happen to allow "skill" to factor into A.A?

Quite frankly, I don't think you even have a solution. So, prove me wrong.

{WP}Paas

Heres what I would do: Option one or two.

Option 1:

1. Missile hit rate lowered to around 60-75%
2. Mobile AA given same properties of Essex gun (except stays 4 missiles)....yes its powerful but read the rest of post...
3. Jets/choppers moved back to all 1.12 properties.

OR

Option Two

Still give jets/choppers back 1.12 properties and:

Make it so that the person firing the AA missile guides the missile so that its close the the jet/chopper, and then once close enough the missile does the rest of the seeking work itself.

How close I do not know...

At least that would involve skill yet still be balanced. The second option is what I prefer.