PKM vs MG36 My Opinion

**BoxiouS** · 02-01-2006, 06:05 PM

Re: PKM vs MG36 My Opinion

wow you've done your homework! Support isn't played nearly as much as it should, but no way will i trade a g36c (I don't even use the scarr anymore (too much distortion round the red dot))for either of those so that may be why!

**Eddy01741** · 02-01-2006, 06:06 PM

Re: PKM vs MG36 My Opinion

Originally posted by Lazy8s

I don't know how my last thread got spammed with no message. Anyways, here's one post, please delete the others with my apologies. Some white screen came up and it said that the admin got e-mailed because of a database problem. Again, if it was somehow my fault (I doubt it) I apologise profusely. On to the post...

I did a lot of looking before I unlocked the MG36 a few days ago and they were very mixed so I thought I would give my opinion and some information to back it up. Feel free to agree, disagree and the like. As support is a very underplayed class I think some constructive discussion would do us some good. I got my info from wiki.bf2s.com

MG36
600 rounds per minute
30dmg per round
4.9sec reload
4 rounds to kill unarmored
5 to kill armored

PKM
450 rounds per minute
45dmg per round
6.3sec reload
3 rounds to kill unarmored
4 to kill armored

Rate of Fire (ROF)/Time to Kill
While the PKM takes less rounds to kill any target, it's slower rate of fire means it will take 25% longer to fire off each round. Most people choose the PKM because it "Does more damage per shot so it kills faster". To kill an unarmored target, it takes 25% more rounds with the MG36 which means both will kill an unarmored target in the same ammount of time. On an armored target, however, it takes only 20% more rounds meaning the MG36 will kill an armored target 5% faster. I find this helps considerably against assault troops as well as AT troops. Also, the MG36 has a smaller min. deviation, meaning I am more likely to hit with every shot. At long ranges this can make the difference between winning and losing.

Total Damage Output
The other reason I saw people prefer the PKM is total damage output. I was worried about this until I played a round with the MG36 and found myself killing more people than my team mates with PKMs. Here are some numbers:

5sec
PKM
45 rounds fired
1,687dmg

MG36
50 rounds fired
1,500dmg

1 clip
PKM
13.3repeating seconds
4,500dmg

MG36
10 seconds
3,000dmg

all 4 clips
PKM
72.23repeating seconds
18,000dmg

MG36
54.7 seconds
12,000dmg

At short time intervals the PKM can put out more damage, but with the larger deviation of shots (how likely it is to shoot where you point it) it is less likely to do the full ammount of damage. The PKM takes 1.25min to squeeze off all 4 clips, while the MG36 can do it in under 60 seconds. Most people preach firing the LMG in 2-3 shot bursts, and I used to agree when I used the PKM but the MG36 is SO much more accurate that even on long range targets I just hold down the trigger and usually get the kill.

Add to all of this the fact that the MG36 can fire off almost the whole clip before it overheats (I haven't gotten the exact numbers but I may edit for this when I get home), and the MG36 can put out a scary ammount of cover fire. I find that if I let off the trigger for .5 to 1 second per clip I can fire the whole MG36 clip without it overheating.

Reload Time
PKM 6.3 seconds
MG36 4.9 seconds

I think the numbers speak for themselves here. I find the shorter reload time (33% shorter) means I can reload without having to worry about getting killed as much. If I am trying to take a flag I often found people respawning before I finished reloading my PKM, but the MG36 is ready to go when I am. Also, with the addition of reloading while sprinting in 1.2 you will be able to start reloading your MG36 part way through your sprint and not have to worry about finishing before you get to your target location.

Accuracy
minimum deviation for the PKM is .8
minimum deviation for the MG36 is .75

The standing/crouching/prone accuracies are all identical, as well as deviation per shot.

This means the MG36 is roughly 6.3% more accurate pr round. While this does not seem like much it is enough for wiki.bf2s.com to list it as medium and the PKM a low. The difference in game is noticable. Anyone who has the M95 can tell you that high accuracy is NOT as good as the very high accuracy on the regular USMC rifle. I find the MG36 to be significantly more accurate at medium to long ranges, especially on fully automatic.

Other
Anyone who has ever played knows the sound of a PKM firing. It is one of the most distinct gun noises in the game. The MG36 is much quiter and I find that I am much safer while firing the gun from a stationary position. With the PKM people could easily hear me from far away and I died to a lot of hand grenades from people I never saw.

With the new patch and the support getting an accuracy tweak who knows what will happen to these guns; as long as they do not make the PKM as accurate or more accurate than the MG36 I think the MG36 will remain the superior support gun overall. Some people may prefer the larger clip size of the stock guns or their shape or color, but these are all personal preference. While personal preference should come into play of course, I feel that the MG36 is a very worth while unlock and superior to the PKM in almost every way.

Where is the PKM Superior?
The ONLY place I have not decided is when it comes to destroying Humvees with the LMG. Honestly, it's a one shot kill for an AT player and I feel it would be best left up to them, but I never hesitate to shoot a humvee even if it is about to run me over because some damage is better than none. If you are close enough then I feel the PKM is superior for destroying humvees because it does it faster than the MG36, however, I usually find myself shooting the blackhawk or humvees at a distance, in shich case the MG36 still wins out. I often can shoot the gunners or engineers in a blackhawk with the MG36, but never quite got it with the PKM because they were at such a distance that the gun just was not accurate enough.

THANK YOU, u finaly have an answer to why the MG36 is great. I always wanted to make a topic like this to prove the MG36 right, but never had enough time, or patience for that matter to do so. This is why i ALWAYS use the MG36 nowadays, so, since u've been so courteous, ur on my buddy list.

**imported_OBCD** · 02-01-2006, 06:07 PM

Re: PKM vs MG36 My Opinion

i still love my PKM, but i havnt given the mg36 that much time i might pick it up

and i cant see how you think the noise from the pkm is bad i love that sound even if it is loud and distinct but then agian i havnt noticed any grenades appearing by me without me knowing where the came from

**imported_Phenomenomenon** · 02-01-2006, 06:23 PM

Re: PKM vs MG36 My Opinion

I've found myself playing the mg36 more than the PKM. I guess it is the "feel" of it. I do feel it's more accurate and w/out research I'd always felt that it's rate of fire would make up for it's lack of damage.

**imported_RingMasTeR** · 02-01-2006, 06:27 PM

Re: PKM vs MG36 My Opinion

Thanks for the post, I've been wrestling between spending a saved unlock on either the G-36E or the MG36. This info will likely push me to unlock the MG36 now.

**DuffMan** · 02-01-2006, 06:28 PM

Re: PKM vs MG36 My Opinion

Who gives a **** about stats? Does it matter which gun you think is better? You play you're own way with the gun you want. Most people lose health after a confrontation with a squad so if you providing suppressing fire as you should be as support chances are you'll get a kill with the PKM and not the MG.

Thanks for the post, I've been wrestling between spending a saved unlock on either the G-36E or the MG36. This info will likely push me to unlock the MG36 now

G36E is the best gun in the game IMO.

**vbl** · 02-01-2006, 06:30 PM

Re: PKM vs MG36 My Opinion

I'll bite my lip and just say, "Nice work."

**vbl** · 02-01-2006, 06:32 PM

Re: PKM vs MG36 My Opinion

Originally posted by DuffMan

...so if you providing suppressing fire as you should be as support chances are you'll get a kill with the PKM and not the MG.

rofl @ "suppressing fire"

It's a myth man. You know what suppresses people the most? Death.

**IcecreamLtDan** · 02-01-2006, 06:43 PM

Re: PKM vs MG36 My Opinion

Nice work there, as a long time support player i've been using the PKM for a long time now but, have been messing with the MG36 more and more. I am cuirous though as to whether or not the MG36 is able to penetrate fences like the PKM can?

**DaveOnrefni** · 02-01-2006, 06:52 PM

Re: PKM vs MG36 My Opinion

- to IcecreamLtDan: Yes, the MG36 can penetrate fences. I've killed several people that way, seeing their feet poking out and such, but I may be wrong? Even the M249 SAW can, as well as alot of the Assult Rifle

Edit: Laughing at suppressing fire? Hey man, it works. Trust me

**Hu.Z_of_PLA** · 02-01-2006, 06:55 PM

Re: PKM vs MG36 My Opinion

Why is PKM better?

First, numerical datas don't mean anything until you translate it into in game data. As a result, highly idealized data such as damage output and total damage done (all assume perfect accuracy) is simple useless.

1. the accuracy difference is minimal, and can both be compensated by lowering the aim. Additionally, MG36 loses accuracy faster, timewise, because of its faster ROF.

more over, you need to use one more round of bullet to kill while using MG36. remember, that one more round of bullet means more deviation, so in fact, PKM's practical accuracy is higher than MG36, except for the first round.
on unarmored target, accuracy wise

1st round: MG36 wins
2st round: MG36 wins
3st round: MG36 wins
4st round: MG36 loses, because PKM doesn't even need this round for unarmored target. MG36 however, needs it, and this round is a lot less accurate.

all told, you may waste some time on that 4th or 5th round because of accuracy issue, while PKM doesn't have that problem.

2. the damage difference, again, you cannot assume perfect health for every single soldier running on the battlefield. Take into the account of common firearm in BF2, which are:

NA = non-armored, A = armored. 33% damage is stopped by the armor

G36C: 16.5 damage on armored, 25 on NA
AK101: 37 on NA, 24.42 on A
G36E/L85: 32 A, 21.12 on NA
M16: 30NA, 19.8 on A
explosive damage: 50 or so from handheld explosive, 70 from tank/APC gun splashes
M24: 95 NA, 66A
PKM does 29.7 damage on A, 45 on NA,
MG36: 30 on NA, 19.8 on A

let's assume a common scenario, let's say an armored assualt soldier got hit by 2 AK101 rounds in Karkand's alley, he retreated. he now has 51.16 HP. It takes 2 rounds from PKM to kill him, but 3 rounds from MG36 to kill him. this one round can be a matter of life and death, because the difference of accuracy in the scenario above is signficant, since with each round, 0.4 (correct me if i remembered wrong) deviation is added. for a perfect 2 round kill, only 0.8 deviation is accumulated. But for MG36's 3 round kill, a deviation of 1.2 is accumulated. this difference is much more pronounced than the difference between 0.8 and 0.75

last of all: headshot ability. PKM can kill with one shot to the head, MG36 however, can't. 30x3 = 90, not enough to warrant a kill.

Conclusion: It's nearly impossible to compare PKM and MG36, doing so will be like comparing AK47 to M4A1 in CS. PKM can kill signficantly faster because it doesn't have the 4th/5th bullet accuracy issue (MG36 has to worry about the accuracy of that one more bullet), the collective deviation (deviation added x bullet needed) is less on PKM, and that can translate to superior accuracy for you. Also, take account of the headshot effect (PKM kills in one hit with headshot, MG36 takes 2)

I apoglize in advance for my grammar. I don't have the leisure to proofread this.

**tjmhay** · 02-01-2006, 07:06 PM

Re: PKM vs MG36 My Opinion

in all seriousness that 1 round makes no apreciable difference considering with the mg36 the best thing to do is hose the target down with bullets anyway. Trying to spray with the PKM just doesn't work as well.

Stats aside I just prefer the mg36. Spraying bullets everywhere and not having to worry about ammo is such a good feeling

**xdhallettx** · 02-01-2006, 07:06 PM

Re: PKM vs MG36 My Opinion

i think the mg36 is definately better. its definately more accurate and lays down sum lead

**Hu.Z_of_PLA** · 02-01-2006, 07:20 PM

Re: PKM vs MG36 My Opinion

you can argue that YOU LIKE MG36 more, but from a statistical standpoint, MG36 isn't better than PKM.

I think the best way to settle this, is to have a custom server and three players in it. A duel.

this won't be one on one game, for each person's skill differs. However, there is a surefire way to make sure that only minimal amount of human skill is factored in.

player one uses PKM, player two uses MG36. they are not allowed to fire at each other until the third player (the referee?) opens fire with his gun pointed to the sky, serving as a signal gun.

the two support players are allowed to prone and aim at each other carefully. they are not allowed to move once the trigger is pressed. Whoever dies first, his gun is inferior in game.

duel 1. short range. the crosshair must be centered on one's opponent's head before the duel starts. You may not move your crosshair (no compensation for deviation), you may not use burstfire (full auto only), this is a test for therotical ability of PKM.

duel 2: short range, this time however, you may use your crosshair to compensate for recoil and deviation, you may use burst fire, or any method that you found to be benefical.

duel 3,4 are on medium range, duel 5, 6 are on long range.

I am happy to see this tested out, tonight.

BTW: this concept of stationary duel can also apply to other guns. wanna find out whether G3 or G36C is better at medium range in game? Have a duel.

PKM vs MG36 My Opinion

PKM vs MG36 My Opinion

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