The Noob Tube and the real way to fix it

[Bravo Six]

Re: The Noob Tube and the real way to fix it

Yes I think adding a timer on the grenade so that it's just like a thrown grenade, but only difference is being projected out of the bottom of a gun.

As far as I know, that's how it is in real life.

That's not how they work in real life at all I'm afraid. In real life a soldier fires a grenade, the barrel's rifling starts it rotating. After it's rotated a certain amount of times it will "arm" when it's armed it will explode on impact with any suffieciently hard object (basically anything that isn't liquid). Should the grenade hit something before it's "armed" it will not explode, making it basically a big low velocity bullet which even though non-explosive will still kill or seriously hurt a person (I've seen them put dents in steel plates). Now theres a variation on this, depending on who makes the grenade a non-armed grenade may or may not explode after a certain time. The grenade's the Canadian Armed Forces uses for example explode after about 30 seconds of hitting something unarmed, the delay is apparently to give the soldier enough time to get away. Their logic is that if it hit something close enough to be un-armed its probably close enough to hurt or kill it's wielder. Now I know that russian grenades when they hit something at close range become inert for the most part, ie if they hit something before the 30 feet minimum arming distace they're duds.


Also I'd like to know where DICE got this whole "grenade launcher is meant for vehicles thing". Everything I've read states underslung grenade launchers and their grenades as being "anti-personnel" weapons not anti vehicle weapons for the most part. There exists anti-vehicle 40mm high explosive grenades which can really mess up a vehicle, but those are definately not what DICE put into the game.

I really wish DICE would look to reality for how these weapons should work instead of opting for a damned RPG style rock-pappers-scissors balance system which frankly from as early back as BF1942 they haven't gotten right and still don't get right. More often then nought DICE ends up rendering half the bleedin' arsenal useless in their attempt to "balance".

[Fearnight]

Re: The Noob Tube and the real way to fix it

Solution 1: Use the G3 and kick ass.
Solution 2: Choose another class.

[AmishSlayer]

Re: The Noob Tube and the real way to fix it

I really wish DICE would look to reality for how these weapons should work instead of opting for a damned RPG style rock-pappers-scissors balance system which frankly from as early back as BF1942 they haven't gotten right and still don't get right. More often then nought DICE ends up rendering half the bleedin' arsenal useless in their attempt to "balance".

If DICE put more damage on these grenades to ALL vehicles and kept them up to where they are now with infantry...then you have a very imbalanced class on your hands. If grenades can hurt an APC enough why bother going AT class when you have an all-in-one ownage weapon that barely requires much aim or time to kill with (for vehicles OR infantry). Now the grenade launcher will probably be something like the AT rocket (when it comes to infantry killing). You'll have to place the grenade pretty close to the enemy in order for it to kill them.

DICE doesn't have a rock-paper-scissors style of balancing. The way they balance it is to encourage squad-work and teamwork. If you have one of every class walking around together working together, you're going to have a very good and versatile squad. By taking away the amazing infantry-killing power of the grenade launchers, they're forcing the Assault classes to work with teammates now instead of being a bunch of one-men killing machines.

[Bravo Six]

Re: The Noob Tube and the real way to fix it

Work-arounds are not solutions, people who like to use the grenade launcher should not penalised because they like to use a weapon that certain vocal people don't like.

That being said I think the launcher should be made as it is in real life, ie with the minimum range required for arming and a decent blast radius.

[LoganX]

Re: The Noob Tube and the real way to fix it

Also I'd like to know where DICE got this whole "grenade launcher is meant for vehicles thing". Everything I've read states underslung grenade launchers and their grenades as being "anti-personnel" weapons not anti vehicle weapons for the most part.

It's called 'Gameplay Balance' you b00b!!
Of course we all understand that GLs can and are used against infantry IRL but this is a GAME where people can jump into any vehicle they want without formal military traning, a GAME where you 're-spawn' (Come back to life) when you get killed, a GAME where everyone has a parachute and can Base Jump off a 3 story building.
There has to be balances or else NO ONE will play the game.
The game has to be made fun for the largest amount of people and right now MOST of the people have a problem with the GL so all your arguments mean nothing because all your concerned about is 1 class.

[Bob Toblerone]

Re: The Noob Tube and the real way to fix it

Another problem with the grenade launchers is that they sometimes go right threw enemies (for me atleast) making a direct hit random. So if the radius is decreased to the point where its essentiel to go for a direct hit then the grenade launcher is gonna be even more useless.

[LoganX]

Re: The Noob Tube and the real way to fix it

Work-arounds are not solutions, people who like to use the grenade launcher should not penalised because they like to use a weapon that certain vocal people don't like.

It's not a matter of "Who likes to use it". It has come down to abuse of the weapon.
It's amazing the lack of comprehension people have when they are being selfish.

I'm a Helo pilot and gunner and I am totally fine with the fixes they're implementing for aircraft even though I know it will mean harder times for me. But I am going to adapt because I know it will be better for the game.
I suggest you do the same.

[AmishSlayer]

Re: The Noob Tube and the real way to fix it

Work-arounds are not solutions, people who like to use the grenade launcher should not penalised because they like to use a weapon that certain vocal people don't like.

That being said I think the launcher should be made as it is in real life, ie with the minimum range required for arming and a decent blast radius.

The grenade launcher isn't being changed simply because "certain vocal people don't like" it... It's being changed because DICE themselves realize it's being used for a different purpose than they intended it and it's throwing off balance of the game.

Why not make everything to be as it is in real life. Parachutes won't save you fully unless you open them hundreds of feet in the air and you can only use them once. Medkits will only stop bleeding and will not heal you. Wrenches cannot heal vehicles but now vehicles have to go into the shop to be healed. Players will no longer be able to spawn on squad leaders. I could go on.

DICE didn't make this game to be completely realistic. It's supposed to be an arcade-style team game set in post-modern times. Realism is sacrificed for balancing and to keep the gameplay fun. That's the way it goes.

[mafia_boy]

Re: The Noob Tube and the real way to fix it

just leave the nade launcher alone please!! works great and loads of fun, try focusing on things that need the attention ie, support accuracy, supply drops fixing arty ect the list is long and i cant think of all at the mo but the nade laucher is good!

[Bravo Six]

Re: The Noob Tube and the real way to fix it

If DICE put more damage on these grenades to ALL vehicles and kept them up to where they are now with infantry...then you have a very imbalanced class on your hands. If grenades can hurt an APC enough why bother going AT class when you have an all-in-one ownage weapon that barely requires much aim or time to kill with (for vehicles OR infantry).

DICE doesn't have a rock-paper-scissors style of balancing. The way they balance it is to encourage squad-work and teamwork. If you have one of every class walking around together working together, you're going to have a very good and versatile squad. By taking away the amazing infantry-killing power of the grenade launchers, they're forcing the Assault classes to work with teammates now instead of being a bunch of one-men killing machines.

I didn't say equip them with HE grenades, just properly model and implement fragmentation grenades which their obviously modeled the grenade after. Only without the fragmentation radius.

I also fail to see this "amazing infantry killing" power of the grenade launchers. I've clocked in around 80 hours as assault class and I don't see it, yes it's good but it's definately not the broken killing machine people seem to think it is. It's pretty hard to land a grenade close enough to kill a person at range, sure point blank it's easy but I said that was one of the problems. I've landed grenades as close as 2 feet from them and not score a kill or even enough damage to kill assist, with the patch I'll probably have to hit them in the chest to kill assist.

Also the grenades do not do plenty of damage to Humvees, unless you hit in the engine block and even then it will keep going and the gunner will likely shoot you or you will get run over. It only takes 2-3 shots sure, but often times you don't even have time to reload let alone deal that second hit. Against FAVs it's fine though I agree with that much.

[AmishSlayer]

Re: The Noob Tube and the real way to fix it

I didn't say equip them with HE grenades, just properly model and implement fragmentation grenades which their obviously modeled the grenade after. Only without the fragmentation radius.

I also fail to see this "amazing infantry killing" power of the grenade launchers. I've clocked in around 80 hours as assault class and I don't see it, yes it's good but it's definately not the broken killing machine people seem to think it is. It's pretty hard to land a grenade close enough to kill a person at range, sure point blank it's easy but I said that was one of the problems. I've landed grenades as close as 2 feet from them and not score a kill or even enough damage to kill assist, with the patch I'll probably have to hit them in the chest to kill assist.

Also the grenades do not do plenty of damage to Humvees, unless you hit in the engine block and even then it will keep going and the gunner will likely shoot you or you will get run over. It only takes 2-3 shots sure, but often times you don't even have time to reload let alone deal that second hit. Against FAVs it's fine though I agree with that much.

It's an amazing infantry-killing machine when used relatively closely which happens a LOT when you play Karkand or infantry maps like it. The way you say it you make it sound like you're the only one on the team using the grenade launcher. They're ALL over Karkand when I play. You may miss at long range but that's what you have your handy F2000, AK or M16 with extra armor for.

Anyways. I'm always happy to see more balancing done on this game and I can't wait 'till the patch comes.

[asbad3002]

Re: The Noob Tube and the real way to fix it

Second Problem: No arming distance, real launched grenades have a "safety distance" that the grenade must travel before going off. Usually about ten meters BF2 grenades don't have this allowing point blank shots.

is that really true?? i never knew that there was a safety distance. i heard that 'americas army' (personally ive never played it or seen it) had the m203 grenades incapable of detonating at short distance.

Back to the main topic, as mentioned by someone else, just give 1 grenade for the GL and then i dont think so many wouldnt complain. Our as mentioned above just have a 'safety distance'. Removing it completely would be a bad idea imo. The GL still requires a bit of skill and its very satisfying to get a kill on a moving target that is quite a distance away. Reminds me of football, like taking a penalty

[Zoukaila]

Re: The Noob Tube and the real way to fix it

There's no need to nerf the GL more than preventing point-blank shots. Medium to long distances shots takes skill, plus, if you miss, by the time you reload, your opponent will either have fled or killed you. Is this abusive? I don't think so.

[Edit] : I should add that many players will switch to spec ops / medic because the assault class is already broken, it won't help for sure.

[WarGimp]

Re: The Noob Tube and the real way to fix it

is that really true?? i never knew that there was a safety distance. i heard that 'americas army' (personally ive never played it or seen it) had the m203 grenades incapable of detonating at short distance.

He's exactly right and yes it's true.

Here's a great link on the subject:

http://science.howstuffworks.com/grenade3.htm

Check out the flash animation towards the bottom of the page.

[Bravo Six]

Re: The Noob Tube and the real way to fix it

There's no need to nerf the GL more than preventing point-blank shots. Medium to long distances shots takes skill, plus, if you miss, by the time you reload, your opponent will either have fled or killed you. Is this abusive? I don't think so.

[Edit] : I should add that many players will switch to spec ops / medic because the assault class is already broken, it won't help for sure.

Exactly! I don't understand how people can still think the launcher will be overpowered when the minimum distance timer is implemented. It's only close range where it's a problem, DICE's shrinking of the blast radius is a pointless nerf that will do nothing but further limit the class.

I'm betting DICE themselves have gotten killed alot of assault players :P [/sarcasm]

AmishSlayer if DICE wanted the grenade launcher to be an anti light vehicle weapon then they should have put in anti light vehicle grenades. Explosive grenades which will disable lightly armor vehicles but not heavier armor, as it stands the grenades are being turned into an anti-buggy weapon. Since that's the only vehicle you can effectively defend yourself against as assault.

LoganX I can say the same thing about the people who are vocal about nerfing the grenade launcher or removing it entirely. They are most likely like that because they A: don't play assault or B: have gotten killed by it alot. Often times these people do not look at the whole picture before reacting. The abuse of the weapon stems from point blank kills, this I agree with and so does DICE since they are implementing the timer so that it needs to be airborne a certain amount of time before it will blow on impact. That alone will fix the nube tube problem, nerfing the radius is pointless and will render the assault class less useful overall.

Also LoganX what part of BE CIVIL don't you understand? Your first post was downright assinine.