The Noob Tube and the real way to fix it

[WarGimp]

Re: The Noob Tube and the real way to fix it

Yeah, yeah. I do hear ya. Like I say, I'm kinda fond of the weapon myself.
You have to admit that it's seriously easy to chaulk up huge kill scores with it, without putting much effort in. Atleast a tank is a limited asset. At the very least, you have to put the effort out to go get a tank.


Last night, I knew I wasn't going to have much time on-line (ISP problems) so I went a running about with the toob (that damned F2000 makes it just too damned tempting). I managed a score of 25 kills 6 deaths (partly because I had a damned good support player at my side) before getting disconected (my guess, about 20 minutes).

Not all the kills came from the toob. I've managed to get weapon switching down to the point where I can double the cheapness of it by following my GL round with a coule well placed bursts. Enough of 'em did so I felt perty damned cheesy tho.

FYI; I was making self disparaging cracks the whole way through. :p

So yeah, I like the weapon... but it needs to be fixed.
It doesn't need to be destroyed tho.

Let's see how it goes. Worse comes to worse, we might both just have to become better shots.

Edit:

opps, just to add, I dont bounce and tube. Do you really think I need to jump to get a better shot?
I might jump for 2 reasons.
1. I think i looks cool in the right situation
2. I want you to see me in the distance.

Jumping and shooting does give you better shots AND makes you a harder target the way things are right now. It's a better shot because you can get a downward angle that's easier to predict. It also saves you when you point blank guys because the blast radius is so small, you can litterally jump over it (almost, anyway).

As a matter of habbit, when I catch myself pulling that crap, the next shot goes into my own foot. It's only fair (and makes me feel a little better).

[Tenshi]

Re: The Noob Tube and the real way to fix it

I dont mind long range nading...it requires skill..which i respect (though at the time im prolly really ****ed at it).

I dont know how much skill because i dont use it much.

[Braddock096]

Re: The Noob Tube and the real way to fix it

As has been said above, I have no problem being taken out with the underslung GL at distance [as it is in RL], indeed I appreciate the skill involved. [on a slight tangent I shoot a longbow, and the aiming for that is the same as the noobtoob, i.e instinctive... So I know that it takes time and much practice to master] However being toobed by some geezer bunnying around 5 foot away from me makes me really glad that A. My CRT monitor screen is thick enough to withstand punches and B. My friends are used to my occasional foul-mouthed outbursts. The b*stard in me says "I don't use it, so I really don't care if it gets nerfed up beyond all recognition". The realist in me says "every game has its "noob" gun.... AWP in CS, K98 in DoD etc etc. The real solution a la Jay and Silent Bob is to track you toobers down and break your fingers.... Lol.

[Loud Howard]

Re: The Noob Tube and the real way to fix it

I've always thought the assault should have longer stamina, and have grenades, smokes and flashbangs.

The support class should have no grenades but have a seperate grenade launcher (with all the delayed arming stuff), playing an almost mortar role at the back of the squad as they come upon pockets of resistance.

So you have you support class softening up hardpoints with the launcher and his LMG, then you have the assault class...assaulting, throwing grens and flashbangs as he runs in.

As it is now you have the assault guys bunnyhopping around noob tubing and the support guys just stand in the one area throwing grens to spawn points over walls, re-arming themselves and repeating. If you give the assault a delayed arming gren launcher that seems like they might end up hanging back and err supporting the squad.

If you want more teamwork make the classes more dependant on each other. And I'm all for the supports gren launcher to have no crosshairs, it should be hard to aim.

[[3SA]D|Sgt.Colinloves]

Re: The Noob Tube and the real way to fix it

The real solution a la Jay and Silent Bob is to track you toobers down and break your fingers.... Lol.

Sorry, but Jay and Silent Bob are already being used for tracking down people who punish.

[[3SA]D|Sgt.Colinloves]

Re: The Noob Tube and the real way to fix it

The assault is ment to have easy kills. Its the whole idea of the class. Over classes aint ment to kill as efective as the assault, cos they got other skills.
Remember, without a support guy near by, the noob aint that good. 4 shots and done.......A tank can last a whole round, even without a crate being used. [or couse, we're taking about a skilled player here]

The noob abusers can be sorted by the min range [that ole Gimmpy has been beating on about since day dot - good man] - Other than that, leave it alone. All a noobtuber is a mini-me tank with 4 shots.

[iflabs]

Re: The Noob Tube and the real way to fix it

It's an amazing infantry-killing machine when used relatively closely which happens a LOT when you play Karkand or infantry maps like it. The way you say it you make it sound like you're the only one on the team using the grenade launcher. They're ALL over Karkand when I play. You may miss at long range but that's what you have your handy F2000, AK or M16 with extra armor for.

Anyways. I'm always happy to see more balancing done on this game and I can't wait 'till the patch comes.

Your problem is that you need to stop playing Strike on Karkand. I see you haven't learned how to deal with GLers on this map yet. I think your support for nerfing the GLs comes from your frustration on getting killed by GLers on this map.

This map is where the GL is most effective. If you want to fix something on this map, fix the grenades and APCs/Tanks because they dominate on this map. You might actually get less frustrated if it weren't for the fact that people weren't encountering you unexpectedly and killing you in one hit, thus you losing any chance of fighting back with bullets. Matter of fact, only rare GL users rank top at the end of the round because they actually know how to use it properly and effectively.

My suggestion for your fix: play on open maps. I bet you those GLs won't become such of a big problem anymore. You might actually get the chance that you've been wanting: to fight back now. Most of your encounters with the GLers in the open range will now mean that you can fire back while your death by a GL means a skilled shot from the other player.

Dice/EA has everything right except for the decrease in the damage radius with the next patch.

You guys call reducing the blast radius along with arming distance balanced? LMAO. With the new patch, shooting a grenade means shooting one slow moving bullet. If it wasn't for the arming distance, they're asking players to literally jump out of corners and blast the GLs at their feet with the small blast radius. What does the assault class have left after all of this? A basic rifle and a smoke grenade, it'll even make the engineer class look godly. Now that is a total nerf.

I don't know why people think the assault class should not effectively and easily own all other classes. The assault class is the bread and butter of the army, that's why the class exists and the GL helps aid the purpose tremendously. The new patch is basically removing the GL with its changes. And no, don't use a GL whoring arguement against this, because all weapons are whored depending on individual personal preference.

The increase in blast radius is a balancing factor! The arming distance is your fix to the current issues with close range GLs! I'm puzzled, what's the big problem with increasing the splash damage now? Current GLs can barely kill two guys within a close promixity; you'd need an aimbot to even make the GL useful with a decrease in blast radius. With the increase in blast radius and arming distance, you can't point-blank GL anymore and it actually take skills to land it. Shooting a greande at range until it activates with the small blast radius is impossible to kill anything, the increase in blast radius simply balances this factor and makes the impossible, possible.

I'm all in support for the next patch, but the smaller blast radius has to go as it renders the GLs useless if it's a dramatic decrease in blast radius.

[LoganX]

Re: The Noob Tube and the real way to fix it

The increase in blast radius is a balancing factor! The arming distance is your fix to the current issues with close range GLs! I'm puzzled, what's the big problem with increasing the splash damage now? Current GLs can barely kill two guys within a close promixity; you'd need an aimbot to even make the GL useful with a decrease in blast radius. With the increase in blast radius and arming distance, you can't point-blank GL anymore and it actually take skills to land it. Shooting a greande at range until it activates with the small blast radius is impossible to kill anything, the increase in blast radius simply balances this factor and makes the impossible, possible.

I'm all in support for the next patch, but the smaller blast radius has to go as it renders the GLs useless if it's a dramatic decrease.

Your rendering your argument useless.
DICE doesn't want the GL to be able to take out several infantry at once. it's part of what makes it unbalanced already.
If they increase the radius it will just make people use it against infantry more and that's what DICE doesn't want.
If anything I'd support just leaving the radius the same as it is now.

[glaucoma]

Re: The Noob Tube and the real way to fix it

Some of you may be saying "good for them" but aren't you being just a little hippocritical? Someone complains about one of your tactics or weapon choices and you say "LOL it's part of the game, cry more learn to play etc.." but then someone uses something you don't and you call them "nube toob! other retarded internet insult here". The fact is if they make the grenades nigh useless it just removes another thing from this game that makes it so great. BF2 is great because of it's choices, because you can play pretty much any way you want. Rendering the grenade launcher weaker/ less useful will render the assault class so, I don't think anyone really wants the assault to be nerfed.

Yes and no. Yes, I agree that bf2 is great because of the choices.
No, I don't agree with anything else you've said in the quotation above.
In this patch, there are changes for quite some people that these people won't like. Including me.
For example, I've been training planes hardcore since the patch news, because I know that my favorite vehicle, the chopper, will be next to worthless with the reduced TV range to me. I'll be planewhoring instead. Fine.
Do I bitch about it? No. Will it make me stop playing the game? Probably not.
Instead I try and adapt to the situation.
If the assault class is going to be nerfed and you don't want to play the nerfed version, fine, play another class then.
Do I say that out of spite? No. Do I hate hard-core assault players? No.
I simply think you, too, should try and adapt to the situation.
At the end of the day, every balance change a patch makes will make some people unhappy, pleasing everyone is impossible. And I'm afraid that if you can't live with the changes as they are, you have to adapt to them and try to have fun a different way from before - or give up for good.

[iflabs]

Re: The Noob Tube and the real way to fix it

Your rendering your argument useless.
DICE doesn't want the GL to be able to take out several infantry at once. it's part of what makes it unbalanced already.
If they increase the radius it will just make people use it against infantry more and that's what DICE doesn't want.
If anything I'd support just leaving the radius the same as it is now.

This is the only feature the Assault class has and useful! To take out more than one enemy with one shot!

Dice and the community must be composed of noobs if they're asking to have the GL nerfed to hell. Has the introduction of a grenade launcher slanged under a rifle too much for us to handle? Why even make the GL at all? You barely get any kills off of light vehicles and you're better off with a medic kit.

Lets also be a little more realistic here as well. We all know vehicles like APCs and Tanks are made to slaughter infantries, EA/Dice also notices this so they implement APCs and Tanks to with these overpowering weapons. We all know the GLs were made to hit groups of enemies, enemies hiding, and light vehicles but yet they nerf the GL's abilities to perform this. Doesn't make much sense.

If you want to stop it from being used against infantries, opting to remove it entirely is the better way to go.

Besides the point, the ranging factor makes it a lot harder to land a kill. Attempting at more than one kill from GL means having to shoot at a group of compacted enemies. The same circumstances also apply to hand grenades, to attempt at more than one kill from a hand grenades means having a group of enemies within the killing radius. So why aren't the grenades nerfed?

Is it due to the fact that grenades are usually thrown in a hidden position where you won't know where the enemy is and has a delay before it explodes; unlike the hand grenade, you are exposed and know where the enemy is by using the GL? Well, the GL is very similar and performs the exact same function except that they differ in methods. The cons of using a GL means having to wait until it arms and exposing yourself, but in exchange you know where the enemy is to land the kill.

Anything else that needs to be said and addressed pertaining to the GL fixes can be found in my earlier post.

At the end of the day, every balance change a patch makes will make some people unhappy, pleasing everyone is impossible. And I'm afraid that if you can't live with the changes as they are, you have to adapt to them and try to have fun a different way from before - or give up for good.

But that doesn't mean that we can't have a discussion to either persuade to have the patch go in the other direction or just simply talk about it.

[AmishSlayer]

Re: The Noob Tube and the real way to fix it

AmishSlayer if DICE wanted the grenade launcher to be an anti light vehicle weapon then they should have put in anti light vehicle grenades. Explosive grenades which will disable lightly armor vehicles but not heavier armor, as it stands the grenades are being turned into an anti-buggy weapon. Since that's the only vehicle you can effectively defend yourself against as assault.

Well DICE DID want the grenade launcher to be used against vehicles. I quoted the dev himself earlier in an interview with this VERY site but there's the link if you want it.

http://www.totalbf2.com/features/interviews/ea-dice2.php

Your problem is that you need to stop playing Strike on Karkand. I see you haven't learned how to deal with GLers on this map yet. I think your support for nerfing the GLs comes from your frustration on getting killed by GLers on this map.

This map is where the GL is most effective. If you want to fix something on this map, fix the grenades and APCs/Tanks because they dominate on this map. You might actually get less frustrated if it weren't for the fact that people weren't encountering you unexpectedly and killing you in one hit, thus you losing any chance of fighting back with bullets. Matter of fact, only rare GL users rank top at the end of the round because they actually know how to use it properly and effectively.

My suggestion for your fix: play on open maps. I bet you those GLs won't become such of a big problem anymore. You might actually get the chance that you've been wanting: to fight back now. Most of your encounters with the GLers in the open range will now mean that you can fire back while your death by a GL means a skilled shot from the other player.

I play Karkand a lot because it's all about infantry battles with some armor mixed in. I actually am not completely frustrated with the grenade launchers killing me...it's mainly the fact that there's tons of people whining their asses off about everything under the sun when it comes to EA/DICE and what they're doing with BF2. The grenade launcher changes just happened to be the topic of the day. That being said...I just want to see how the changes play out in the game before I make any more opinions on them. I think it'll make Karkand and maps like it a lot more fun to play for anybody that likes a good, fair infantry battle.

[glaucoma]

Re: The Noob Tube and the real way to fix it

But that doesn't mean that we can't have a discussion to either persuade to have the patch go in the other direction or just simply talk about it.

Sure, discuss all you want. Wonder where you got the idea I was about to forbid that?
The quoted OP was insinuating that I cannot take the stance I am taking (that I don't give a rat's arse about people being unable to play assault 'cause it got nerfed, just like all non-chopper whores won't give a rat's arse about the TVGM being nerfed), because equipment I like is also getting bogged down.
I rebuted his insinuation of hypocrisy, for the reasons given in my post, which I won't repeat again in the interest of brevity.

[[FM]Master_Chief]

Re: The Noob Tube and the real way to fix it

I say their changes are fine. I would go so far as to say remove the crosshairs from it and make launcher users use the iron sights as well. Even DICE said they intended the launcher to be used vs vehicles NOT infantry so the changes they made are definitely going towards that purpose.

I keep hearing this argument over and over. Why everyone cries about GL being used against infantry and noone mentions AT rockets used the same way. I'm pretty sure, army folk back me up here, that GL are used against infantry much more often than AT rockets in real life, yes??? And let me mention that I used to use GL a lot in the beginning but not anymore so I'm not saying that out of bitternes after the nerf. It just iritates me seeing morons running around with AT rockets shooting at eachother and bunny hopping. I think that's much worse misuse of wepon than using GL against infantry.

[iflabs]

Re: The Noob Tube and the real way to fix it

Well DICE DID want the grenade launcher to be used against vehicles. I quoted the dev himself earlier in an interview with this VERY site but there's the link if you want it.

http://www.totalbf2.com/features/interviews/ea-dice2.php

I play Karkand a lot because it's all about infantry battles with some armor mixed in. I actually am not completely frustrated with the grenade launchers killing me...it's mainly the fact that there's tons of people whining their asses off about everything under the sun when it comes to EA/DICE and what they're doing with BF2. The grenade launcher changes just happened to be the topic of the day. That being said...I just want to see how the changes play out in the game before I make any more opinions on them. I think it'll make Karkand and maps like it a lot more fun to play for anybody that likes a good, fair infantry battle.

Your request for a fair infantry battle will never come true. Weapons are tiered to their effectiveness in different categories (range, cqb, power etc.). One will always be better then the other. The G36C and G36E has incredible accuracy but the G36E variant has the advante of ROF. I commonly see the G36E used on Karkand to own infantry with ease. I don't see anyone complaining about these.

Suprisingly the GL is also part of that system I just mentioned above. It lacks the incredible accuracy at long range, but it is very lethal at close range as will as it being a one hit kill. Yet somehow everyone complains about the GL because of its advantage in some areas of fighting. The GL is still balanced like any other weapon, it has its up and downs but it doesn't dominate everything. Removing or nerfing the GL doesn't make the game any more enjoyable or fair.

I'm beginning to think it's somehow the one hit kill feature of the GL that no one can't handle. I'm sure you'll have a fair gun fight if you'll just remove all the explosives from the game or anything that can kill in one hit for that matter.

[AmishSlayer]

Re: The Noob Tube and the real way to fix it

I keep hearing this argument over and over. Why everyone cries about GL being used against infantry and noone mentions AT rockets used the same way. I'm pretty sure, army folk back me up here, that GL are used against infantry much more often than AT rockets in real life, yes??? And let me mention that I used to use GL a lot in the beginning but not anymore so I'm not saying that out of bitternes after the nerf. It just iritates me seeing morons running around with AT rockets shooting at eachother and bunny hopping. I think that's much worse misuse of wepon than using GL against infantry.

Probably because you have to be standing still to use the AT rockets accurately at range and so does the enemy. Not to mention you have to hit the person virtually directly because there's very low splash. There's also a moderate travel time for the rocket to get to its target so chances are you'll die before it gets to your target and your rocket will change course and your target will probably live.

I have yet to see a person bunny hopping with AT rockets and actually be anywhere near effective. Hell...it'd be much more effective to use the DAO instead.

EDIT: Infantry battles can be pretty even if you're precise at any range. Sure a DAO will probably own you point blank but at least it's still down to how well you aim rather than how fast you look at the ground and pull the trigger. When I say "fair" I'm not asking for complete equality across all weapons. Every weapon is different. Some sacrifice power at range for great cqb power. Others sacrifice power for accuracy. It's down to skill in most infantry battles. It's the lack of skill involved in most of GL'ing that bugs me.