Holding Actions

[WarGimp]

Defence seems to be a lost art in BF2.
Every round seems to devolve into squads franticly racing to take and retake flags while not bother to defend at all.

I know there's lots of folks with lots of reasons to say that defence sucks... but thinking about this prompted me to do something a bit different.

I've started doing holding actions.
And I'm liking it!

The most notable engadgment so far was while playing with a couple buddies. We were going into the second round of Sharqui. The last round resulted in us being rolled up perty bad. Right from the start of the next round I suggested that we focus entirely on holding the TV station. So that's what we did.
We held it and refused to let it fall. Our team was losing CP after CP, but still we would not give up our post. In the final stages of the round, we had lost every other CP, but our line never broke.

And we WON!
They threw so much against us that we took the round soley because of the numbers we killed off. Hehe... as a side effect, I earned extra "You'd better listen to Gimp 'cause he knows what he's talking about" points with my buds.

Anyway, the point is that doing defencive actions can be a lot of fun and can be the differance between winning and losing.

Some comments on using good holding tactics:

- You REALLY want some AT in any defencive action. If you consiter the way most players rely on armor or vehicles to get them to the flag, this is perty obvious.
- Backing your AT up with some Support is a fine idea.
- Defence shouldn't be a boring role. If it is, you're prolly doing it wrong. You need to constantly asses the situation, observe enemy movements, and counter them to the best of your ability. It takes some smart play to do effectivly.
- Forward screening helps lots if you've got good comunication. One or two squad member shout move out towards likely enemy routes to keep an eye out. Pick 'em off if you can, but your most important fuction is simply to warn your mates of enemy action.
- Defencive sniping is nasty. I'm a lousy sniper, but my pal Finger7 was crankin out the kills (making my forward screening a hella lot easier)
- Always make sure you've got someplace to hide when the artillery starts falling. Arty is prolly the one thing that turns most people away from trying to play defence. If you're smart, you can counter it easy just by finding some good shelter. Once the enemy commander tries to shell you and fails a few times, chances are he'll give up out of frustration.

Anyway... Playing D can be fun.
Thought I'd share.
Got anything ta say?

[Sir. Shpox]

Re: Holding Actions

Most people think, what the hell, I'll just cap it afterwards and get some more points. Screw defending it.

The problem is too many people care about points.

But every now and then you see a good squad, that defends, caps, works together ect.. and ranks up big points without being a total P*ss weak.
You sir have witnessed one of those moments.

[3Libras]

Re: Holding Actions

It's funny you use the TV station on Sharqi as an example. That's the first defendable spawn point that comes to mind, and definitely my favorite to assault. I think it would rule of more of them were like this instead of dinky little sandbagged areas that are easily artied.

*Agree* that playing D is the way to go sometimes. Sometimes it frustrating to take a point and then realize that it's been taken back the instant your squad is on another point. I think people take for granted the amount of tickets that are wasted on unsuccessful assaults, especially if there's an enemy SL nearby and he just sends in the clowns.

[whofriggincares]

Re: Holding Actions

Every once in a while I'll defend. My friend and I were playing on Karkand, MEC side. We both spawned at the main base, ran around to the back side. We climbed the ladder to get on top of the crane, ran across and jumped on the roof overlooking the flag. Even though our team did a pretty good job of stopping any attack, near the middle of the round people were getting through. Until then, our commander was running his mouth to us about being noobs, stupid, wasting space on the server, you name it. He refused to drop us supply crates and even tried to arty us. Yeah, noob. Finally when we did see action, we defended the flag easily. My buddy was supply and I was AT. He unloaded AT round after round and he threw nades. I had about 6 or 7 defend flag and he had about 4. After the second time we defended the flag, the commander finally shut his trap. It can be boring defending a flag if no one is coming, but when they do, it's nice.

[noob_mc_goob]

Re: Holding Actions

Love defenfing the airfield on Wake. My Squad (VOIP) usually holds the field at all costs and it is awesome. Post a scout at either entrance and one covering the arty. One at the end of the runway near the AA. First sighting of an invasion and its on. Heaps of fun.!!!

[DemonOfhatred]

Re: Holding Actions

Recently I convinced the whole mec team I was on during Karkand to forget the front flags and blow up the bridge and defend the backlines.
We ended up stomping the crap out of USMC. They kept throwing themselfs at us and dieing.

[vbl]

Re: Holding Actions

Defence seems to be a lost art in BF2.
Every round seems to devolve into squads franticly racing to take and retake flags while not bother to defend at all.

I know there's lots of folks with lots of reasons to say that defence sucks... but thinking about this prompted me to do something a bit different.

I've started doing holding actions.
And I'm liking it!

Anyway, the point is that doing defencive actions can be a lot of fun and can be the differance between winning and losing.

Some comments on using good holding tactics:

- You REALLY want some AT in any defencive action. If you consiter the way most players rely on armor or vehicles to get them to the flag, this is perty obvious.
- Backing your AT up with some Support is a fine idea.
- Defence shouldn't be a boring role. If it is, you're prolly doing it wrong. You need to constantly asses the situation, observe enemy movements, and counter them to the best of your ability. It takes some smart play to do effectivly.
- Forward screening helps lots if you've got good comunication. One or two squad member shout move out towards likely enemy routes to keep an eye out. Pick 'em off if you can, but your most important fuction is simply to warn your mates of enemy action.
- Defencive sniping is nasty. I'm a lousy sniper, but my pal Finger7 was crankin out the kills (making my forward screening a hella lot easier)
- Always make sure you've got someplace to hide when the artillery starts falling. Arty is prolly the one thing that turns most people away from trying to play defence. If you're smart, you can counter it easy just by finding some good shelter. Once the enemy commander tries to shell you and fails a few times, chances are he'll give up out of frustration.

Wargimp's post is true on two major counts:
1) Very few people defend flags
2) #1 is silly because it's incredibly fun

Defense really is an art and a science. Putting a good defensive plan into action and maintaining it against frequently bad odds can be a real challenge, but if your plan is well thought out and you exercise a little patience (and tactical discretion), you can do a world of good (and get a badass score).

I find Spec Ops is best for solo defense. When I'm in a group, I like a Medic + Support + Spec Ops + Anti-Tank combo... often we go without a Medic, though.

My main tip, if you're using Spec Ops, is to pay close attention to the flag's radius - anticipate where armor will arrive, and then concentrate 2-3 C4 packs in the armor area, and use the remaining 2-3 to cover any nooks and crannies that infantry might hide in. Find a good spot for carbine cover fire, and wait. I usually try and use grenades and the carbine for infantry, but sometimes the force is so overwhelming (or there's armor) that you have to dip into the C4 and blow the whole thing sky high, preferably before the flag goes neutral.

Don't be sloppy with your C4 drops either - scattering it all over the ground is bad mojo. Find ways to blend it into the area - I often place C4 on ceilings where it's out of the way, among static objects like electrical boxes, or in the base of the flagpole.

My favorite CPs to defend are Oman's Construction Site, Sharqi's TV Station and Surveillance outpost, Karkand's Suburbs, and the Docks and Woodyard on Dragon Valley. There are more, but I can't recall the names.

Two additional notes on the artillery:
1) Listen for it. If you hear arty firing and you don't see your commander doing it, evacuate your position to someplace safe
2) Don't stay bunched up. Aside from looking juicy for arty's sake, a closely-grouped defense team will be more likely to get entirely wiped out. Space your people out.

[Jammydodger]

Re: Holding Actions

I love defending a place but there has to be enough people on the map or you'll just be waiting for ages for someone to come.

[18Zulukiller]

Re: Holding Actions

I enjoy defending myself i don't do it that much because 99% of squads will not help you . But i have to say defending can lead to some of the most intense action in this game. Also another thing I've found medium size maps with say 40 or 50 people on can be great fun for a defensive player loads more people less flags so you see alot more action.

[Jesse]

Re: Holding Actions

My favorite CPs to defend are Oman's Construction Site...

I went on a crazy run as MEC on the demo defending that point from atop the crane. It was one of those "We're EA, wah we suck, so we're blacklisting you" servers because I had the G36 as spec ops, and no on taking the flag below me could figure out where the fire was coming from as I was firing down upon them on single fire mode.

Defense is key to victory in a lot of situations. Me and my usual group of people to play BF2 with often defend the main base on MEC in Karkand, because NO ONE EVER DOES. I don't understand why that base is never defended, and the only time anyone is in it half the time is because they're waiting on "their" armor. I would tell you our setup, but that's a secret. The ranking system and commander tools are two of the biggest things against people defending I say, and I agree with the notion some people just want the extra points for it being capped again...hate tools like that.

[WarGimp]

Re: Holding Actions

Wow!
I'm suprised to see some discussion on this topic!
Tis good!

I agree with Var on most of his points although I prefer to play AT when doing solo D. Purely personal taste, but I find with AT I can mount a forward defence then if needed I can drop back for close D with my DAO (I love stepping out from behind a wall and feeding people to my perty 'ol shotgun :) )

Here's a couple thoughts on D-ish sorta stuff:

- Medics
I usually more than happy to have a medic around, but when you're doing D, it's usually right next to a spawn point. Going medic for a light to medium holding action is kinda iffy, IMHO, since you could be using a kit with more punch. If someone dies, atleast they have a quick place to respawn. Even the SL can get right back in there.

However, in heavier defencive fighting, they are critical. If you are hard on the defence, chances are you've lost most of you CPs. You're gonna need those medics to keep you alive and prevent ticket loss. It's about your only shot. Thankfully, by this time most of the "field" medics will have to use your spawn point anyway. They should be within screaming distance.

- Engineers:
Engineers are the most underrated and underused holding class. 2 Engineers with proper support can make a holding force. With proper use of mines and vehicle assets, you can make a very strong stand. One bonus is since you are holding the CP, you will eventually have access to every vehicle asset that it provides. [Don't get too greedy, tho. The offence might need some too!]
Then there's mines. Ah mines; the best way to end a round with a negitive score... or get kicked for TKs. Still, with a good squad backing you up and hopefully very few tards on your team, you can use them to very good effect. Practice laying down patterns that block the road if you are coming straight down it, but can still be navigated.
Er, example required? Here's my standard 4 mine deployment:

-*---
*---*
---*-

- open road
* mine

The point is to maximize the chance of an enemy hitting a mine, while still not imobilizing your own vehicles.

- Fixed Assets
I'm suprised at how few people seem to actually use any of the fixed assets.
Ok, AA is a bit wonky, the .50 cals are all mounted facing the wrong ways, and TOW launchers might as well have a big "KILL ME" sign on 'em, but they can still help out. A lot.
The trick is to not stay in them. Try to find good positions near fix defences. I've been doing more of this myself lately and I'm suprised by a few things. AA is still hella handy for warding off choppers and even downing the occasional plane (yeah, you planewhores scoff... I've clipped a few wings ).
If there's a TOW handy, I like to make sure it's pointing roughly in the direction that I expect armered attack from. That makes it a hella lot easier to break cover, get in it, line up your shot, fire, AND live!
The .50 cals I've not found too useful too often... but there has been the occasional lucky break when I've caught a squad moving through a field of fire. Those things are seriously nasty.

[18Zulukiller]

Re: Holding Actions

the .50 cals are all mounted facing the wrong .

Thats one thing ive never understood about this game the way the deffences are all in the wrong place i know its proberly for balance issues but whats the point. Ill give you a good example daque oil feilds the first flag directly east of the chinese uncapable the 2 mounted guns are no use at all there both facing the flag and only a couple of metres away from it. In my mind a defencive weapon should be facing outwards away from a flag not at it. Also a lot of the AA is normaly always next to a building or tree so that completely restricts your feild of view maybe there wouldnt be as many problems with the AA if your feild of view wasnt restriced as much you could at least get more shots of.

[I_M_Weasel0r]

Re: Holding Actions

I've had some great games defending and its been obvious that the squad I was in was allmost solely responsible for the win. But to look at the stats/scores my squad would have been irrelivant. Its another example of stats taking away gameplay and teamwork. Also defence can be quite boring if you defend too well, the enemy learn and say "we'll leave that CP then".

[jdrou]

Re: Holding Actions

I've had a lot of fun defending the Gatehouse on Karkand (the main MEC base on the 32-player version). Mostly by myself as AT or Engineer since it's usually tanks/APCs/jeeps that make it that far through the lines. It's a good defensive position; has limited approaches and good cover for defenders, including shelter from arty.

[imported_Underpant]

Re: Holding Actions

I think in your case gimp it was more teamwork than defense. I agree though, defense is key. US has to keep atleast 2 of the beach bases on oman. The TV station is needed for the chopper spawn. The most necessary base in the game is the airfield on Wake. I think I've only seen china win like twice after they lost their airfield.

Teamwork on any map is the most powerful thing ever. One time I had a squad with 2 APCs and a tank in oman, and we stomped a 64 player server after the rest of our team was pathetic. There were actually 4 of us(1 guy gunning and spotting stuff for us on the abrams) on voip. I've also had many great teamwork experiances on sharqi. I'm either the faithful mobile support spawn point squad leader, or the AT guy that goes in the base first sacrificing himself for the rest of the squad.