The core causes behind BF 2's jet situation.

[WhardieJones]

Re: The core causes behind BF 2's jet situation.

I think as long as both teams have acces to jets its fair. Gulf of Oman is cool. Any map where the US has an uncapturable airfield and the other team doesn't is BS. I usually refuse to play those maps.

[imported_t3h_d0n]

Re: The core causes behind BF 2's jet situation.

I don't see a problem with jets at all. It takes a lot of skill to fly them in my oppinion. I think it's impressive (well to me anyway, as I can hardly hit a thing with bombs) when I see a jet take out a few people.

[imported_Svartberg]

Re: The core causes behind BF 2's jet situation.

Nice post ||bfa||variable,
Did jets have reverse physics in bf42 too ? (rotating faster in higher speeds, instead of the other way around like in real life)

There are a few simple ways to make jets more balanced imo :
1. get rid of the alternate first person HUD, this way players are forced in a limited screen view. if the tank/aa has those, why shouldn't the jet too ?
2. jet boost (sprint button) only replenish with rearm/repair, and it replenishes slowly.
3. slower rearming, cannot rearm all bombs in one sweep. (or alternativly take one bomb away, like you hinted)
4. jets shouldn't have targetting on AA implacements, a skilled pilot should know their locations just like a chopper pilot, the current setting is too nubified.
5. proper physics for jets, faster speeds mean slower turning.
6. AA should react differently to jets, rotating and moving faster.
7. AA missiles should have larger explosion radius and explode in proximity.

[IVfluids]

Re: The core causes behind BF 2's jet situation.

Did jets have reverse physics in bf42 too ? (rotating faster in higher speeds, instead of the other way around like in real life)

No, but they didn't have afterburners either, which is where the tighter turning comes from in this game.

In this game, and all previous BF games, the slower you go the tighter you will turn, up until you hit that point where you start to lose lift. But, when you engage the after burner, you will turn tighter at full throttle with it on at any given altitude than you would with just plain full throttle at the same given altitude. This comes because the afterburner engine in the game is placed at a bit of a pitch when compared to the actual engines on the jet in the game code.

If you would notice, your speed increases the higher in altitude you fly, and the faster you go, the worse you turn. Hit the afterburner, and you'll turn better than you would without it.

Simple test on it, get in a jet, fly level and let go of the mouse/joystick, you will notice the jet keeps flyin level. Now, do the same thing, then hit the afterburner, you will see the jet climb in altitude. You won't see this on the F35 because the extra engines on the jet for the VTOL are always pushing up on the jet (which is why you can do rocket launches off the carrier with them).

They probably pitched the AB engine to actual give them some sort of an advantage when using them due to the fact that you are confined to flyin in a shoebox and that if you wanted to catch up to someone without using your AB you could just start to slowly climb in altitude to gain the needed speed to follow someone using their AB, yes it works, I do it all the time. The AB has no advantage other than making you turn better, when you think about it.

Don't get me wrong, I think the jets are overpowered, I know this because it is rare that I die unless I lawn dart. They just really need to rework the ground AA, give some personal AA kits out and maybe make the splash radius on the fighter jets bombs (not bomber jets) a bit smaller so that you'd have to be a bit more precise with them.

[BigBadBob]

Re: The core causes behind BF 2's jet situation.

I think as long as both teams have acces to jets its fair. Gulf of Oman is cool. Any map where the US has an uncapturable airfield and the other team doesn't is BS. I usually refuse to play those maps.

doesn't matter. We ususally end up stealing the other teams' aircraft anyway.

[S-N-Killer]

Re: The core causes behind BF 2's jet situation.

I dont mind the planes attack being strong.
I dont mind the AA been useless against them.
But the flying over the base at mach2 to rearm and repair. I can just imagine some guy tossing a 2000lb bomb upto an F15 and it lands right on the rack.

I agree . The only problem with the jets is being able to reload and repair at 600 mph .. If any country could do that they would rule the battlefield . It takes infantry the same amount of time to reload as a jet? One spawn left "yes your team probably ##### " but here comes the same jet again fully loaded in the same amount of time as it takes you to respawn and... BOOM again .. from the same jet just doesn't happen like that . If it did the Iraq war would have been done in 60 seconds. Make them land to repair and reload. Theres alot of skilled pilots that would still dominate but it would be more realistic and fair.

[imported_Svartberg]

Re: The core causes behind BF 2's jet situation.

IVfluids : : useful info, and nice reading, thanks

[vinnie1thumb]

Re: The core causes behind BF 2's jet situation.

definitely

[Futile]

Re: The core causes behind BF 2's jet situation.

hmm i wonder if this will work. give each side a AA radar station that will show all enemy jets on the map. doesn't the real carrier have this anyway? now if this AA radar is active, we can launch radar-guided AA missiles at the jets (instead of heat-seeking) and these guys won't miss.

oh and it gives the spec ops class something else to blow up

[UF-RAM]

Re: The core causes behind BF 2's jet situation.

Are the performance levels of the jets realistic in comparison to each other?

I would assume the Migs are faster and more manouvrable than Harriers in "real life"

[imported_Wasp]

Re: The core causes behind BF 2's jet situation.

Are the performance levels of the jets realistic in comparison to each other?

I would assume the Migs are faster and more manouvrable than Harriers in "real life"

No they are not but then again who cares. What you need in a game is balance. Like it is now in BF2 the only thing that will get you killed in a J-10 is your own stupidity. The J-10 btw makes playing Wake a pi$$poor experience as USMC. You get bombed the whole round by the friggin J-10's and noone can touch them. The only thing you can do is to cap their airfield and that doesn't happen very often.

[Indyxc]

Re: The core causes behind BF 2's jet situation.

Here is my opinion. I've got about a 50 hours in the jets, of my total 100 played, 9 to 1 kill ratio with about 3000 kills for reference. I fly whenever I can, and usually do.

Anyway, as they are the jets themselves vary with your perception of the game. If you want a balance gamed, then the jets in BF2 are not balanced. However, just like in real life the possension of an airforce is direct advantage. This translates into BF2, where the jets have big advantages.

Personally, I'd keep the jets as they are but change the following:

-Add a pilot class, where unless you are the pilot class, you can't fly the plane. No main gun, only a pistol.

-Add a que for the jets that goes much like the commander application. To fly the jets you need to be at least a certain rank. Say whatever the third rank is. Flight time, K/D Plane ratio are considered if you are a high enough rank to join the line.

-Increase runway length, and force the jets to land to rearm and refuel. It's too hard to land right now without either the enemy killing you, or a teammate killing you, because they are jealous.

-Afterburner not limited by a recharge bar, but by the amount of fuel you have.

-Add good Anti air, like on the USS Essex, but better at the main spawn so it prevents people for constantly attacking uncappable bases. Make it so essentially only the expert pilots will be able to dog the missles, and only if the missles engage them at a long distance.

-Keep the anti air out in the field relatively the same, because in general foward anti air shouldn't be too effective.

-Increase the abilitiy of the tunguska and linebacker, but have them setup and deploy IE make them have to deploy out in the field, to fire, or at least have be a 2 man operation. Where one guy tracks aircraft on the radar, and the other fires the missles, or drives.

-Add the ability for the f-15/su-34 to drop guided missles on their own, but targets must be painted or spotted by the commander or someone on the group. (This might be questionable, because teamwork in Bf2 is nil)

- Increase the effectiveness of air to air missles on airplanes. On the flipside, to prevent them from being too much of a pain, increase the max altitude and the boundry distance that the planes can do to avoid missles.

-Add a limited amount of flares the planes can drop.

-Add changing weather to the battlefield. As it is there are no clouds (low anyway) or weather patterns. If the weather is bad, and the clouds are low, the planes are ineffective. Rain on the windscreen would also make visibility a pain.

Indyxc

[IVfluids]

Re: The core causes behind BF 2's jet situation.

.....

Indyxc

I've got about 35 hours flying and a 16.7 KD ratio, and that is all mainly from dogfighting. Not that it means much in this thread (or any other) or gives me any more credentials than you. I've been flying since BF42/DC/BFV and can see the big difference in the ground AA (or lack of ground AA), I'm just replying with my view from those past experiences in the previous BF games (and the successful DC mod) and this game in general.

1- You'd just have a bunch of idiots as pilot class hanging out on the runway, not any different than it is now.

2- Rank is not indicative of skill in this game. You can acquire the needed rank just by tossing out enough ammo/health bags, and that would qualify you as a pilot?

3- Once you set your plane down, it would never get back up in the air. It would be the same as it is now, once a jet is shot down, you just have people camping your runway with their jets. Now instead of the sh*ttiest of all the sh*tty pilots getting bombed off the runway for getting shot down in the first place, it would mean everyone would get bombed.

4- Anybody that is good, doesn't even really need the afterburner too much, they know how to manipulate the different speeds at different heights and different turning physics at different speeds to work around the afterburner.

5- Yes, better ground AA is needed. Personal AA kits are needed.

6- Not to sure on that one.

7- In the right hands, the jet bombers are already nasty, I wouldn't make them a one man operation. If you have a group of clanners or even friends on the same team, it would mean total rape.

8- You can be pretty successful with the AA missiles on the jets, I am, and so are a few others that know when to take advantage of **** poor flying patterns of others. Better AA is being addressed in the next patch anyways, so it will just make the very good pilots too ****in good, and the worse will be cannon fodder.

9- The good pilots can work around the flare issue easily, check #4 above, a lot of the answers to that are in there.

10- Would be cool, but would probably cause a lot of slow down on your comp.

[Flashpoint2]

Re: The core causes behind BF 2's jet situation.

The devs said that they are gonna improve the lock-on of missiles in the patch. I hope they dont mean that it will just aquire a lock faster because that isnt where the problem lies. The missilies just seems to turn as slow as a cruise missile. Make em faster and more agile.

Of course the missile loses lock if it flys past the plane doesnt they do that irl too?

People also complain about stingers choosing a friendly aircraft if it crosses the path of the missile but isnt that something thats also happens irl?

[Futile]

Re: The core causes behind BF 2's jet situation.

-Add a que for the jets that goes much like the commander application. To fly the jets you need to be at least a certain rank. Say whatever the third rank is. Flight time, K/D Plane ratio are considered if you are a high enough rank to join the line.

-Add good Anti air, like on the USS Essex, but better at the main spawn so it prevents people for constantly attacking uncappable bases. Make it so essentially only the expert pilots will be able to dog the missles, and only if the missles engage them at a long distance.

Indyxc

first, i've thought about making jet / helo piloting prioritized according to rank, but that doesn't make sense because higher rank doesn't mean better pilot. how about making it prioritized based on the badges? i mean there are 4 levels of helo badges (including medal) and same with air. so someone with a veteran badge should be able to take over someone with no experience at all in a plane... but if we have that then the newbs won't ever get a chance to fly :\

second, that's a great idea. have really good anti air at the main airstrips. i really hate it when i can't even take off before someone bombs my plane! in fact make it so good that you need spec-ops to go in and take it out (like they can parachute in or something). the forward AAs should be left alone though.