The core causes behind BF 2's jet situation.

[WarGimp]

Re: The core causes behind BF 2's jet situation.

Oops. Yer not right.

The Patriot missile was designed in the late 1970's as an antiaircraft weapon. However, it was modified in the 1980's to serve as a defense against incoming short range ballistic missiles. Until the Gulf War the Patriot had not been tested in combat.

[T0eCutt3r]

Re: The core causes behind BF 2's jet situation.

Wargimp I have to disagree about you saying jets can't camp. Gulf of Oman for example where I have been on the MEC side and we could not get any aircraft off the ground due to both USMC aircraft straffing and bombing aircraft as soon as it respawned. This went on for the whole game. Since the AA sucks a$$ we didn't stand a chance. I've seen it happen to the USMC at the carrier as well. For all those are going to say that at that certain game the teams or I suck, but 2 pilots who work together can pretty much keep either teams air power on the ground.

[WarGimp]

Re: The core causes behind BF 2's jet situation.

Hmmm... I guess that's a matter of semantics. I wouldn't call that camping, I'd call it tactical deployment of air assets to supress enemy air forces.

The differance?
It sounds like that took some luck and some skill!

I also sounds like they were so tied up doing that, that your team's armor would have been relativly free to move out and take CPs.

[T0eCutt3r]

Re: The core causes behind BF 2's jet situation.

I'm sure it was some luck and mostly skill to stay together with the timing of the spawn. As for armor the heli pretty much can take of that along with AT troops. Ground pounding to cap flag's probrably would have worked if the other half of the team gave up on the aircraft, but someone had to supply all the kills for the pilots. I understand what you are saying about supressing the air power it's all part of the game.

[AssaultSqdLdr]

Re: The core causes behind BF 2's jet situation.

Simple: The SAMS have ceased to function.

[Jesse]

Re: The core causes behind BF 2's jet situation.

Good read, and I totally agree. I guess it's more of the appeal to noobs policy from EA rather than balancing. You know people would complain if they had a fighter, but it couldn't kill ground targets well, and we already know EA took the "let's let everyone play without having to learn" stance, sadly.

Good post. How do you feel about the mobile AA? Is it more effective? Should we have more mobile AA on the maps?

I think the static and mobile AA should simply fire dumbfire missiles. Take the useless tracking system off of it, take the gravity modifier so it doesn't turn upwards and fly straight instead, and just let us lead the planes and learn to track the planes ourselves. I would go as far to say remove the boxes on the AA HUD as well so you have to know what you're shooting at, but I doubt people would be able to tell the difference between friendly and enemy aircraft anymore since they can't seem to do it with big X's in the boxes on their hud. =/

[WarGimp]

Re: The core causes behind BF 2's jet situation.

Yeah... there's a great idea. Make it harder to hit aircraft! Brilliant! That will solve everything!
:yay:
[/sarcasm]

The differance between a dumbfire AA missile and a TOW would be what exactly? I'd love to see you reliably be able to take out aircraft with a TOW.
:shakehead

How about instead of calling everyone else a noob, you actually try to add something to the discussion?

What needs doing is the fixing of the tracking code on missiles. That's it. Really simple.

[WarGimp]

Re: The core causes behind BF 2's jet situation.

nothing is broken, just stop crying about it.

:shock:
Would you like a side of fries with your double helping of stupid comment?

The AA missiles are borked.
I recall firing at a hovering Blackhawk, first shot to get him to drop flares, wait till flares are gone, take second shot. What happend? The missile flys straight at the BH, then vears off at the last second. The pilot wasn't that bright and CONTINUED to hover. I managed a reload (wishing there was a bloody TOW handy), and fire off two more shots. No flares dropped, but the missiles again just desided that they weren't interested in tracking their target.

I swear, those missiles are the only things around with a lower attention span than certain posters around here.

[ICPO]

Re: The core causes behind BF 2's jet situation.

It seems to me that BF2 fighters have evolved - and rightly so - but the other aspects of the game that typically balance fighters were hastily designed or totally immasculated.

Hit the nail on the head with that one.

[Cap`N Hagen]

Re: The core causes behind BF 2's jet situation.

Hit the nail on the head with that one.

I agree.
I miss the DC aa, never had any TK`s with them

[Mister-T]

Re: The core causes behind BF 2's jet situation.

First I apologize for my english,

Just my 2 cents,

After many check, even if most things in BF2 are server side, it seem that AA missile functioning is influenced by the ping of the player.

Most frag done with Stinger/Igla on jet I've seen were done by people with a ping under 30 ms.

That's also true with jet's players, those who "own" the most (with Air-Air missile not bombs) are those who have a lower ping than average of other players on the server.

[rombaft]

Re: The core causes behind BF 2's jet situation.

I love jets when sitting in one, I hate jets when they are above my head not sitting in one.

[strikken]

Re: The core causes behind BF 2's jet situation.

I do not think there has been an adequate enough job of updating the anti-air technology from BF42 through to BF2. I also think that the designers upped the killing potential of jets by too much. Taken singly, I don't think either of these would be something to complain as much as we do about - but add them both together and you get too lopsided of a situation. Think about it: If jets were kept the same as they are now, but there was a RELIABLE surface-to-air countermeasure against them, there would not be much complaining going on. The same if the ground-based AA was kept the same, but fighters were only given one bomb, or fighters' abililty to see ANY manned object from a distance via the HUD was taken away.

I don't think the current AA situation can be fixed in BF2. Maybe there's some code or something that cannot be worked around sufficiently to make Stingers a reliable weapon. I don't know. Hey, maybe it's just that the developers just don't want to spend the time fixing it. Either way, I think it's a lost cause on that front. However, I do think the situation could be salvaged (though in the process 90% of the regular jet pilots would be outraged). I believe that if you were to take away the jet's ability to see every manned vehicle or stationary position, and instead LIMIT this ability to only being able to detect armored vehicles (tanks, APCs, mobile AA), the situation could become more balanced. No longer would an enemy pilot be able to quickly look and see *exactly* which AA site you are using to try and shoot him down in; he would have to make a guess at it. If you wanted to move troops in a Humvee or Vodnik, you could do so without being immediately lit up as a fast-moving square and easy target for a bomber. In addition to this, I'd like to see the ability to change views and eliminate the cockpit from view to be done away with, for both jets and helicopters. Tanks and APCs can't arbitrarily turn off their cockpit views, so why should airborn units be able to? These two changes, to the radar and cockpit view, would substantially change the way jet (and helicopter to a certain extent) pilots go about their business. Great pilots would still be great - but they would have a less likely chance of being completely invincible in the air.

[IcemanNorth]

Re: The core causes behind BF 2's jet situation.

The easiest solution, I think, is to lower the armor on jets. A single stinger missile should KILL a jet. Helicopters should be more armored.

I also think that the stinger missile itself should have a speed increase and the lock on of those sites should be doubled.

One other item we could consider is that all jets from either side are ALWAYS on radar. Maybe that should be intergrated with the radar wagon piece.

For a gameplay perspective, I think we need to make jets equal to being a glass cannon. Considering that there are no true SAM in placements, nor anti-air cannons, jets need to have a considerable downside for the power they hold.

Iceman

[imported_Garrot]

Re: The core causes behind BF 2's jet situation.

Radar guided surface to air missles would even up the odds quite nicely. Taking the radar out of the planes would be flat un-realistic.