Leave planes alone

[stormwolf]

Re: Leave planes alone

No realy, I've gone several rounds as a pilot without dying once..

Yeah, I know, I do that too.

I disagree, the primary function of pilots in BF2 should be (and is for me) to eliminate ground targets, (tanks and APCs especially) in a way that profits the team, I usually do this by forming my own squad so the commander can give me orders or, attaching myself to a squad with VOIP who can direct me to a target, in BF2 air superiority should be a secondary role, as effective bombing can be achieved without air superiority.

Why is that? As a big jet fan - both in real life and in the BF series, I don't see why jets in BF2 primary role should differ from their primary role in real life - air suppriority. Jets can not concure anything. You need infintry and tanks for that. Jets are here to help the ground forces make their stand and since the ground forces worst enemy is the enemy's air force, their own air force should first engage all enemy aircrafts - starting with jets, then choppers. The second role would be enemy assests (coherent to real life once again), and the third role only would be ground attack.
This is personaly what I do in the game, and I can assure you I have enough time to bomb ground forces.

I think the main problem is not the strength of the AA, but yet again - people not working as a group. I am rarely being taken advantage of my piloting skills (which are pretty damn good). I am left guessing what could help the ground forces. True, I've become a much better guesser in that matter, and much more skilled, but we all could benefit from ground forces making use of the jets in the air, and pilots not only thinking about their score.

So I suggest the following -
Pilots:
1) join a squad or be the commander of one (the better choice - the commander is the all-seeing-eye for you, and should make better use of your jet as an asset).
2) Start listening to your team requests (and team - don't miss use these request unless you want your pilots to stop listening to them at all).
3) Think tactically oriented instead of point oriented - enemy choppers making their way to cap a deserted flag can change the whole round against you. Nutrulized flags without any team members by are probably the first ground target you should take. Try looking at the whole map before deciding on your next mission, instead of just making your way to bomb some more easy targets.

Ground forces:
1) Spot jets! Any time you can spare the click spot the enemy jet so your team's jets could see them on the radar. Even if you just spotted the jet, or it was spotted a few seconds ago - spot it again so it'll keep being spotted (it's true for every enemy, but might be more important for jets when you need them to being taken down). But generally speaking - SPOT! That one click can sometime be the difference between your team wining or losing - e.g if you saw a jeep making it's way to a deserted team flag, with no team mates close by, spotting it, could alert the team's jets to it's presence, resulting in an early bombing on the dude, and avoiding the lose of the important flag. When I notice these situations, I try as best to take them out. But if they would be spotted it would be even easier.
2) Invite "rambo" pilots to your squad (the ones which are not in a squad already). If they do accept the invitation (when I'm in the jet, and not in annother squad - I'll join), try and make use of them:
3) Commanders/Squad leaders - Make use of "squaded" jet pilots. Keep requesting their attention to your request (use VOIP when possible, human voice is better then automatic messages).

The jets are a much more team oriented vehical then you think (actually, it's the number 1 team oriented vehical IMO - when the pilot and the team work together).


AA should be the weakest weapon in the game because it needs no skills to hit it's target. Some of you want it to be easier to hit with, but if DICE does that, you won't actually need to do anything different to be more skilled - you guys are looking for easy points, not a solution to your problem which can tactically be solved (this is a tactical shooter, not a run and gun FPS such as unreal tournament, which I, for it's bunny hoping and run-n-gun motives, do not like - as do many others BF players).

[BirdKiller]

Re: Leave planes alone

Battlefield 2 is not a tactical shooter, it's an arcade shooter where vehicles are balanced to each other and go harmony with the map and infantry.

I have logged almost 60 hours in aircraft and I have to admit that there is no true counter to the aircrafts than another aircraft. The balance between all vehicles except aircrafts are rock-paper-scissor. But when it comes the aircrafts, the balance is more of a food chain and hierachy.

The solution to this problem is clear: Better AA weapons. In BF1942, the balance between aircrafts and vehicle was good since the Flak guns were deadly and powerful to an average player. Here, the AA sites are a joke and no where near the standard it should be. We're not talking improvements where the missiles will always hit the target, but to give it a fighting chance, almost like the missiles in BF:Vietnam, you didn't see helicopters and aircrafts always getting hit did you?

The claim that the counter to aircrafts to justifiy its part in the whole vehicle balance is a better pilot or a new joystick is ludicrous, average players should have a chance to shoot down aircrafts without the need to buy a $20 or more joystick or having to use the same vehicle.

What would you say if the game had Main Battle Tanks and APCs but absolutely no infantry based AT weapons? What's the counter for them? Another tank/APC? Is that really what you call vehicle balance?

Speaking of joystick, that thing won't give you +10 flying skill points once you use it as many portray. Don't expect you'll quickly become an average/skilled pilot once you have your hands on the joystick. What really matters is your experience and practice in flying the aircrafts. Joystick will only increase your potential, and whether you reach that potential ultimately depends on you, nothing more, nothing less.

[BirdKiller]

Re: Leave planes alone

Battlefield 2 is not a tactical shooter, it's an arcade shooter where vehicles are balanced to each other and go harmony with the map and infantry.

I have logged almost 60 hours in aircraft and I have to admit that there is no true counter to the aircrafts than another aircraft. The balance between all vehicles except aircrafts are rock-paper-scissor. But when it comes the aircrafts, the balance is more of a food chain and hierachy.

The solution to this problem is clear: Better AA weapons. In BF1942, the balance between aircrafts and vehicle was good since the Flak guns were deadly and powerful to an average player. Here, the AA sites are a joke and no where near the standard it should be. We're not talking improvements where the missiles will always hit the target, but to give it a fighting chance, almost like the missiles in BF:Vietnam, you didn't see helicopters and aircrafts always getting hit did you?

The claim that the counter to aircrafts to justifiy its part in the whole vehicle balance is a better pilot or a new joystick is ludicrous, average players should have a chance to shoot down aircrafts without the need to buy a $20 or more joystick or having to use the same vehicle.

What would you say if the game had Main Battle Tanks and APCs but absolutely no infantry based AT weapons? What's the counter for them? Another tank/APC? Is that really what you call vehicle balance?

Speaking of joystick, that thing won't give you +10 flying skill points once you use it as many portray. Don't expect you'll quickly become an average/skilled pilot once you have your hands on the joystick. What really matters is your experience and practice in flying the aircrafts. Joystick will only increase your potential, and whether you reach that potential ultimately depends on you, nothing more, nothing less.

[rpgjazze]

Re: Leave planes alone

what about BF:Vietnam style Anti-Air troops. so i mean antitank guys with anti air guns instead

[rpgjazze]

Re: Leave planes alone

what about BF:Vietnam style Anti-Air troops. so i mean antitank guys with anti air guns instead

[#eDiablo|Doedel]

Re: Leave planes alone

Coming from a former (good) pilot.. before I lost my joystick I was best in my Clan.. the air power in BF2 is rediculous. I won't bother getting into a debate or discussion about it, but I will post the points I think make it rediculous:

1) Anti-Air Capabilities vs Rotary Wing (Helicopter)
Let's take two entirely different vehicles, the MEC/Chinese FA(R)V and the Anti-Aircraft Vehicles (Bradley, Tanguska, whatever that Chinese one is). Now, let me ask you.. how many times have you shot down an enemy helicopter in an Anti-Aircraft Vehicle? Now, how many times have you shot down an enemy helicopter in an FA(R)V? If you've witnessed anything like I have, you'd say you've had a lot more success shooting down helicopters in the FA(R)V than in the Anti-Aircraft Tanks, which, I believe, is the most rediculous part of the game. The fact that a tiny, rickity little buggy with a .50 caliber/12.7mm machinegun is more capable of defeating state-of-the-art attack helicopters than a dedicated vehicle armed with fully-automated, sometimes multi-barreled 20mm-30mm anti-aircraft munitions AND a battery of 6 heat-seeking anti-aircraft missiles.. that's just bloody insane and makes absolutely no sense to me.

2) Fixed Anti-Aircraft Defense (Stinger & IGLA)
These things shouldn't even be in the game. Stingers and their Soviet counterparts should be manportable in some fashion, be it something you pick up from a box or whatever, NOT something that is stationary, can never be moved, whose location is known by everyone and their grandmother and can be destroyed within half a second by any pilot of any moderate skill. Secondly, AFTER you consider the fact that the Stinger and I assume the IGLA are short-ranged local defense against slow-moving attack aircraft and helicopters, I have to ask... why the hell didn't they include some capable system such as Patriot Anti-Aircraft missiles? Atleast the Patriot is designed to defeat fast-moving aircraft at long distances.. IMO, each main base should be home to some such system, just sitting there capable of atleast defending a large umbrella area of the map to thwart utter domination of the entire battlefield by some dip**** who needs only to fly around, see where squares are, and drop some bombs.

3) Phalanx/Carrier-Based Anti-Aircraft Missiles
Why are these so useless? In reality the Phalanx should be capable of launching a barrage of 6000 shells per minute.. that's 600 a second. It can not only defeat any aircraft in existance, it can defeat missiles. But what has DICE done? They've given us this impotent, piddly little thing that LOOKS like a Phalanx but is infact about as useful as an assault rifle. Ever had a chopper come towards your carrier? Ever hopped into the Phalanx, thinking "Hey, I should be able to tear the **** outta that chopper!" Ever had the chopper then target you, fly towards you as you fire until your gun overheats, and take you out with a couple of missiles and be like "Haha bitch, didn't you know this helicopter is immune to the 1000 bullets you just shot me with!??!?"

Again, this is coming from a veteran pilot who has more time in a helicopter than any other vehicle. Although I haven't had much flytime in a jet thanks to my joystick being broken, I did fly extensively in DC and like I said, I was very good, and I consider myself better than most in a helo... and I have to say, they ****ed up bad. Although I'll admit, the game is very pretty, has nice sounds and is generally an OK game.. this is one area I think DICE got a hard on for aircraft.

[#eDiablo|Doedel]

Re: Leave planes alone

Coming from a former (good) pilot.. before I lost my joystick I was best in my Clan.. the air power in BF2 is rediculous. I won't bother getting into a debate or discussion about it, but I will post the points I think make it rediculous:

1) Anti-Air Capabilities vs Rotary Wing (Helicopter)
Let's take two entirely different vehicles, the MEC/Chinese FA(R)V and the Anti-Aircraft Vehicles (Bradley, Tanguska, whatever that Chinese one is). Now, let me ask you.. how many times have you shot down an enemy helicopter in an Anti-Aircraft Vehicle? Now, how many times have you shot down an enemy helicopter in an FA(R)V? If you've witnessed anything like I have, you'd say you've had a lot more success shooting down helicopters in the FA(R)V than in the Anti-Aircraft Tanks, which, I believe, is the most rediculous part of the game. The fact that a tiny, rickity little buggy with a .50 caliber/12.7mm machinegun is more capable of defeating state-of-the-art attack helicopters than a dedicated vehicle armed with fully-automated, sometimes multi-barreled 20mm-30mm anti-aircraft munitions AND a battery of 6 heat-seeking anti-aircraft missiles.. that's just bloody insane and makes absolutely no sense to me.

2) Fixed Anti-Aircraft Defense (Stinger & IGLA)
These things shouldn't even be in the game. Stingers and their Soviet counterparts should be manportable in some fashion, be it something you pick up from a box or whatever, NOT something that is stationary, can never be moved, whose location is known by everyone and their grandmother and can be destroyed within half a second by any pilot of any moderate skill. Secondly, AFTER you consider the fact that the Stinger and I assume the IGLA are short-ranged local defense against slow-moving attack aircraft and helicopters, I have to ask... why the hell didn't they include some capable system such as Patriot Anti-Aircraft missiles? Atleast the Patriot is designed to defeat fast-moving aircraft at long distances.. IMO, each main base should be home to some such system, just sitting there capable of atleast defending a large umbrella area of the map to thwart utter domination of the entire battlefield by some dip**** who needs only to fly around, see where squares are, and drop some bombs.

3) Phalanx/Carrier-Based Anti-Aircraft Missiles
Why are these so useless? In reality the Phalanx should be capable of launching a barrage of 6000 shells per minute.. that's 600 a second. It can not only defeat any aircraft in existance, it can defeat missiles. But what has DICE done? They've given us this impotent, piddly little thing that LOOKS like a Phalanx but is infact about as useful as an assault rifle. Ever had a chopper come towards your carrier? Ever hopped into the Phalanx, thinking "Hey, I should be able to tear the **** outta that chopper!" Ever had the chopper then target you, fly towards you as you fire until your gun overheats, and take you out with a couple of missiles and be like "Haha bitch, didn't you know this helicopter is immune to the 1000 bullets you just shot me with!??!?"

Again, this is coming from a veteran pilot who has more time in a helicopter than any other vehicle. Although I haven't had much flytime in a jet thanks to my joystick being broken, I did fly extensively in DC and like I said, I was very good, and I consider myself better than most in a helo... and I have to say, they ****ed up bad. Although I'll admit, the game is very pretty, has nice sounds and is generally an OK game.. this is one area I think DICE got a hard on for aircraft.

[bam23]

Re: Leave planes alone

I could probably shoot down 40% more planes with the Flak guns from BF1942.

[bam23]

Re: Leave planes alone

I could probably shoot down 40% more planes with the Flak guns from BF1942.