TG Gentelman's Contract (Show your honor)

[imported_TG-Apophis]

Re: TG Gentelman's Contract (Show your honor)

Good post. It sums it up for me. While I enjoy and partake in your style of play, I don't like people coming on here and saying others are "noob" for playing a different style. It's mostly kids who are pushing that attitude, contrary to your statement above.

Based on what I've observed here, the people promoting this code of ethics are more immature than the people who prefer to play with 'dirtier' tactics, which sucks for you guys because that's not your style.

I agree with you completely, which is why I felt so compelled to respond to this thread. I understand and respect other player's rights to play the game how they choose without being branded a n00b or anything else along those lines.

Granted, we enforce a particular style of play on the Tactical Gamer servers, but we enjoy that right considering we have our own servers.

[Light_Wolf]

Re: TG Gentelman's Contract (Show your honor)

I'll sign on, but my point of view is that anyone can play as they want, including whoring or anything, as long as they don't ruin the whole fun by statpadding or is just fixed on stats and crie ut "Cheater" to anyone better than them:)

I will follow the coduct of honor, others can play the way they want, see you all on the 'field:evil:

[L3adcannon]

Re: TG Gentelman's Contract (Show your honor)

I use any means necessary to win k. Even if its base camping, ramming, bunnyhopping

[imported_TG-Apophis]

Re: TG Gentelman's Contract (Show your honor)

Look I have no problem with you guys running youre server that way. What I do have a problem with is:
1. The op and those supporting him trying to force everyone to play their way.
2. That (I may have misunderstood you) things such as sabatoge in the ucb's and the stealing of the enemys vehicals are considered exploits.
3. That everyone who supports the more open style of play is a younger player.

As for your argument about what dice intended:
You are trying to compare programimng and hardware issues that every game has to BF gameplay that has been existant throughout the series. Things such as "base camping", vehical stealing, and enemy harassment inside the ucb have always been a part of BF so yes Dice intended for those things to take place. All Three are valid military tactics.

You guys can play however you want on your server but dont come in here and act all holier than thou implying a lack of maturity based on how we play the game.

1. I don't want to force everyone to play the way we do at Tactical Gamer. I realize that it's not the type of environment everyone wants to play in. We just provide an alternative for those people who WANT our type of environment.

2. I didn't mean that UCB sabotage and vehicle theft were exploits. But we opted, at least for now, with having rules in place that keep enemy combatants out of UCBs unless they are specifically targeting the commander's assets. (UAV, Radar & Artillery) Sorry if I wan't clear on that.

3. I didn't mean to imply that everyone who doesn't play our way is a younger player. My reference was more in response to the attitude displayed in the thread. It's not difficult to determine one's level of maturity based on their responses. That doesn't mean that everyone that doesn't like what we do is immature. There were several responses to the original post that conflict with what we are trying to achieve that were presented in a very mature manner. My apologies if you took me as saying anyone that disagrees is immature.

As for DICE and their intentions. I guess we will need to agree to disagree. I have a very hard time trying to place someone elses intentions without their involvement. Having a seahawk able to cap in 3 seconds with a full medic and engineering crew may not have been DICE's intent, but something they possibly could have overlooked.

My point was to state that just because it's in the game, it doesn't mean it was intended to be the way it is. If this were the case, the ONLY things you would see in a game's patch history would be actual bugs and no code fixes, tweaks or modification in the dynamics of the game. I have never seen a game that didn't have gameplay-affecting patches introduced after the release.

EDIT: The post this is in response to was deleted for some reason.

[A_Dirty_Hippie]

Re: TG Gentelman's Contract (Show your honor)

......................
As for DICE and their intentions. I guess we will need to agree to disagree. I have a very hard time trying to place someone elses intentions without their involvement. Having a seahawk able to cap in 3 seconds with a full medic and engineering crew may not have been DICE's intent, but something they possibly could have overlooked.

My point was to state that just because it's in the game, it doesn't mean it was intended to be the way it is. If this were the case, the ONLY things you would see in a game's patch history would be actual bugs and no code fixes, tweaks or modification in the dynamics of the game. I have never seen a game that didn't have gameplay-affecting patches introduced after the release.

EDIT: The post this is in response to was deleted for some reason.

deleted because you responded quite aptly and no further comments on it were necessary.R420

I could argue the symantics of intent but that wont get us anywhere. Good luck with your server. For the most part you guys seem ok. I would come and check tg out but no voip so no play with you.

[dfr.mav]

Re: TG Gentelman's Contract (Show your honor)

1. Will not bunny-hop.
2. Will not bunny-prone hop.
3. Will not camp spawn points.
4. Will enter UCBs only to destroy CO assets.
5. Will respect specialty squad assets.
6. Will not intentionally engage in suicide tactics, ramming or otherwise.
7. Will not punish accidental TKs.
8. Will not Instant Vertical Capture/Neutralize (IVC/N) apparently undefended flags with the H-60 Helo (Black/Sea Hawk)

the most STUPID RULES I HAVE EVER READ are 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 8

[imported_TG-Apophis]

Re: TG Gentelman's Contract (Show your honor)

I could argue the symantics of intent but that wont get us anywhere. Good luck with your server. For the most part you guys seem ok. I would come and check tg out but no voip so no play with you.

Agreed. I try and keep away from a game designer's intent as much as possible. Only time and patches will show us what their intent really is. I'm really anxious to see what gameplay affecting changes will occur with 1.3. It should be interesting.

As far as not having VoIP. Can you at least hear others on VoIP? Not having voice will restrict you in terms of command and SL roles, but if you can at least hear what is going on you should be okay as a squad member.

[JIGA]

Re: TG Gentelman's Contract (Show your honor)

Wow. Quite a lot of responses to this, both positive and negative. I guess that is okay as everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

I do need to agree that I find the poll options a bit slanted. It's always irked me to see a poll that essentially makes you pidgeon hole yourself as either a "good" person or a "bad" person. It would have been more congenial to provide options that were neutral.

In any case.

As the founder of Tactical Gamer, I feel the need to stress that our community was created for a particular type of player and that it's really not for everyone. Most of our membership consists of players in their 30's and 40's and in many cases those individuals are active or retired military or have law enforcement backgrounds.

We strive for tactical play, teamwork, and strategy, but not to the point where simply winning is the most important achievement. How you play is as important, if not more so, than if you win.

Our rules (that were lifted from the TG site and posted in another thread) as well as our Gentlemen's Agreement are geared around our specific style of play and are really not for mass consumption by the greater BF2 player base. These rules encourage players and squads to win based on having better combat tactics and strategy as opposed to video game tactics and strategy. We do not endorse exploitation of flaws or bugs in the game, nor do we endorse capitalizing on potentially overlooked functionality within the game.

A lot of people say that DICE intended this or that, simply because "this or that" exists in the game. If you want to follow that logic, you must agree that DICE intended for certain video cards to have problems causing people's screens to go black. And that DICE intended for x% of players to crash to desktop after 15 minutes of play. You must also admit that DICE intended some players on your team to show up with the opposite team's color. After all, it's in the game so they must have intended it to be that way. If this sounds rediculous to you, it should. But it should also make you realize that just because something is in the game, or possible within the software construct of BF2, that it may or may not have been intended to be exploited.

Based on the responses here it is pretty easy to gauge the percentage of younger players vs. older players. For those that are interested in our style of play, the responses from the younger crowd should serve as more inspiration to try this style of play as they are representative of the behavior and attitude we do NOT allow. In addition to the teamwork, strategy, tactics and honorable play, we also require respect for one another.

In closing, I would like to apologize for the author of the poll in the choice of options, but try and focus on the message rather than the way in which the message was presented.

We have many members in the 30's to 40's range as well. And a few former military and some active police officers, one of which is in a swat team. I myself am former USMC, 14th Marines HQ Battery NAS/JRB
Just because players do not wish to use your style of play or condone your style of play does not mean they are young in age... that is just a silly assumption. I'm 26 in age, married and our first child is 2 months old. Our clan would never think of using those kind of rules, it's just silly and hinders yourself ingame. That is why you run your own servers, so you can force people to play the way you want. People who bunnyhop, 203 at close range, attack UCP's, and the rest listed does not mean they are unskilled players, does not mean they are exploiters, and certainly does not mean they are young.

If the enemy has air superiority over us your damn right I'm going to rape the hell out of their airbase when I get the chance. Thats the name of the game, kill the enemy. This is a video game.

But hey, thats why you guys have your own servers, so you can play like you like and kick everyone else who plays the game to it's fullest extent. I'll just make sure that me or any of my clan members don't accidently join your server.

Try not to take my post in a negative way.

[imported_TG-Apophis]

Re: TG Gentelman's Contract (Show your honor)

We have many members in the 30's to 40's range as well. And a few former military and some active police officers, one of which is in a swat team. I myself am former USMC, 14th Marines HQ Battery NAS/JRB
Just because players do not wish to use your style of play or condone your style of play does not mean they are young in age... that is just a silly assumption. I'm 26 in age, married and our first child is 2 months old. Our clan would never think of using those kind of rules, it's just silly and hinders yourself ingame. That is why you run your own servers, so you can force people to play the way you want. People who bunnyhop, 203 at close range, attack UCP's, and the rest listed does not mean they are unskilled players, does not mean they are exploiters, and certainly does not mean they are young.

If the enemy has air superiority over us your damn right I'm going to rape the hell out of their airbase when I get the chance. Thats the name of the game, kill the enemy. This is a video game.

But hey, thats why you guys have your own servers, so you can play like you like and kick everyone else who plays the game to it's fullest extent. I'll just make sure that me or any of my clan members don't accidently join your server.

Try not to take my post in a negative way.

No worries, I take no offense to your post. I should clarify that my intent was not to say that if you don't like our rules you're of a young age. It was more directed towards the manner and message of the responses themselves. I apologize for the misunderstanding there. I updated my original post to clarify that a bit so it won't be taken the wrong way in the future.

How many people do you have active in your clan? We're always looking for good clans to practice with and scrim against. We can easily field a 32 player team with almost no advance notice, so if you'd like to set something up, drop me a PM!

[evil.rusk]

Re: TG Gentelman's Contract (Show your honor)

i am interested to see members of the community taking the initiative and making things like this gentlemans contract. coming from a smaller forgotten hope community we always had an unwritten gentlemans agreement for Code of Conduct. It basically meant you knife fight whenever someone else pulls a knife out, and no bunny hopping or noobing and any self respecting "quality" player adhered to it (except the score whores who will always use cheap tactics).

some of us that moved to bf2 try to adhere to this but i cannot "sign" this contract im afraid. whilst i did not previously agree with basecamping or kamikaziing they are tactics i must regretably whole heartedly support while the whorehawk exists in its current state in this game. i do not support ramming helos/planes into tanks etc as this is unjustified. the same people always play USMC and the same people ALWAYS use the whorehawk, and the only way to "educate" them about their errors is by continuously ramming into their whorehawk and spawn camping them while they wait for it to spawn. they have had ample time to adjust to playing on a "level" playing field but continue to use these lame whorehawk tactics, so i have total support in MEC/PLA players using kamikazi tactics/basecamping.

maps where the USMC are denied their whorehawk tend to be much more fun and more infantry based, or as is more common they are completely one sided MEC stompfests since without their precious BH the "usual" usmc players are useless.

as for bunny-hopping and bunny-insta-proning i completely disaprove of these tactics as they are just lame. if the only way you can beat someone that is knifing you is to bunny hop and shoot your feet with an m203 then i suggest you go practice on single player for a few months before coming back online.

[A_Dirty_Hippie]

Re: TG Gentelman's Contract (Show your honor)

Once I get my soundcard working again Ill come check you out, me no talkie though.
I am a big fan of mods and thats basicaly what you guys are doing so I have no problem being killed by you.

on another note:
how do you guys determin who is in your "specialty squads"?
What about Snipers are they a squad in themselvs or part of a general squad makeup?

[Cardini]

Re: TG Gentelman's Contract (Show your honor)

Wow. Quite a lot of responses to this, both positive and negative. I guess that is okay as everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

I do need to agree that I find the poll options a bit slanted. It's always irked me to see a poll that essentially makes you pidgeon hole yourself as either a "good" person or a "bad" person. It would have been more congenial to provide options that were neutral.

In any case.

As the founder of Tactical Gamer, I feel the need to stress that our community was created for a particular type of player and that it's really not for everyone. Most of our membership consists of players in their 30's and 40's and in many cases those individuals are active or retired military or have law enforcement backgrounds.

We strive for tactical play, teamwork, and strategy, but not to the point where simply winning is the most important achievement. How you play is as important, if not more so, than if you win.

Our rules (that were lifted from the TG site and posted in another thread) as well as our Gentlemen's Agreement are geared around our specific style of play and are really not for mass consumption by the greater BF2 player base. These rules encourage players and squads to win based on having better combat tactics and strategy as opposed to video game tactics and strategy. We do not endorse exploitation of flaws or bugs in the game, nor do we endorse capitalizing on potentially overlooked functionality within the game.

A lot of people say that DICE intended this or that, simply because "this or that" exists in the game. If you want to follow that logic, you must agree that DICE intended for certain video cards to have problems causing people's screens to go black. And that DICE intended for x% of players to crash to desktop after 15 minutes of play. You must also admit that DICE intended some players on your team to show up with the opposite team's color. After all, it's in the game so they must have intended it to be that way. If this sounds rediculous to you, it should. But it should also make you realize that just because something is in the game, or possible within the software construct of BF2, that it may or may not have been intended to be exploited.

Based on the responses here it is pretty easy to gauge the percentage of younger players vs. older players based on their methods of response rather than their actual gaming preference.

For those that are interested in our style of play, the responses from the less respectful crowd should serve as more inspiration to try this style of play as they are representative of the behavior and attitude we do NOT allow. In addition to the teamwork, strategy, tactics and honorable play, we also require respect for one another.

In closing, I would like to apologize for the author of the poll in the choice of options, but try and focus on the message rather than the way in which the message was presented.

Nice post, but……

This thread smacks of value judgments that will vary across the spectrum of players in the game regardless of their age. ‘Honorable’ play is difficult to define, judge and administer. One man’s exploit is another man’s honorable play.

I respect the fact that many would like to get together and play according to a certain style and base set of self imposed rules. But I object to calling that more honorable, fairer, and more entertaining, than the way others would choose to play, even if I find those rules appealing to my own sense of honor and fair play.

The ‘intended’ or ‘not intended’ argument is bogus in my opinion. We cannot ‘know’ the true intent of the developers without speaking with them directly. Many of the things we find in the game could be oversights, bugs, or just plain poor design or imbalances. But many things could just be intended to be as they are. Video and game crashes are fairly easy to agree about, but spawn camping ventures into the gray area, where one player can say it’s there so it must be intended, while another finds it to be an unintended exploit. There’s no logical conclusion to be reached about these gray area items. While they exist they will be used, no matter anyone’s opinion on them.

The bottom line for me is that with over half a million players, I expect to find a variety of player types at various times and on various servers. Players I will come to respect as well as players I will judge to be noobs. I will apply my own values to this process.

Play on – Whine less.

BTW - I voted ‘No, I like being a nOOb. And I’m 53 years of age.

[imported_TG-Apophis]

Re: TG Gentelman's Contract (Show your honor)

i am interested to see members of the community taking the initiative and making things like this gentlemans contract. coming from a smaller forgotten hope community we always had an unwritten gentlemans agreement for Code of Conduct. It basically meant you knife fight whenever someone else pulls a knife out, and no bunny hopping or noobing and any self respecting "quality" player adhered to it (except the score whores who will always use cheap tactics).

some of us that moved to bf2 try to adhere to this but i cannot "sign" this contract im afraid. whilst i did not previously agree with basecamping or kamikaziing they are tactics i must regretably whole heartedly support while the whorehawk exists in its current state in this game. i do not support ramming helos/planes into tanks etc as this is unjustified. the same people always play USMC and the same people ALWAYS use the whorehawk, and the only way to "educate" them about their errors is by continuously ramming into their whorehawk and spawn camping them while they wait for it to spawn. they have had ample time to adjust to playing on a "level" playing field but continue to use these lame whorehawk tactics, so i have total support in MEC/PLA players using kamikazi tactics/basecamping.

maps where the USMC are denied their whorehawk tend to be much more fun and more infantry based, or as is more common they are completely one sided MEC stompfests since without their precious BH the "usual" usmc players are useless.

as for bunny-hopping and bunny-insta-proning i completely disaprove of these tactics as they are just lame. if the only way you can beat someone that is knifing you is to bunny hop and shoot your feet with an m203 then i suggest you go practice on single player for a few months before coming back online.

I feel your pain in regards to the seahawk. For the most part we don't have that problem on the TG servers. Most of our regular players understand that we feel the seahawk is "broken" and don't engage in that particular tactic.

As Tactical Gamer is a community, rather than a clan, you should have your teammates check us out and hop in for some games with us. We support all manner of players including those from other clans. As long as they are willing to abide by our rules, they are more than welcome.

Let me also point out that this thread started with a hijack of our Gentlemen's Code of Conduct for BF2. This particuar document is not a set of "rules" for TG. But a thread within our site that people can sign stating that they agree to abide by these guidelines while in the server.

[imported_TG-Apophis]

Re: TG Gentelman's Contract (Show your honor)

on another note:
how do you guys determin who is in your "specialty squads"?
What about Snipers are they a squad in themselvs or part of a general squad makeup?

Well, the squads are clearly defined. In most maps we have a fixed wing squad and an attack helo squad. If you want to get involved in them you just join up, let them know you're ready for action, and work with the squad on their assigned objectives. Normally players who are not in these squads won't take the assets that the squad relies on.

We have some more formal training if you get involved on our web site that includes various brevity codes, logistics and other such things.

[imported_TG-Apophis]

Re: TG Gentelman's Contract (Show your honor)

Nice post, but……

This thread smacks of value judgments that will vary across the spectrum of players in the game regardless of their age. ‘Honorable’ play is difficult to define, judge and administer. One man’s exploit is another man’s honorable play.

I respect the fact that many would like to get together and play according to a certain style and base set of self imposed rules. But I object to calling that more honorable, fairer, and more entertaining, than the way others would choose to play, even if I find those rules appealing to my own sense of honor and fair play.

The ‘intended’ or ‘not intended’ argument is bogus in my opinion. We cannot ‘know’ the true intent of the developers without speaking with them directly. Many of the things we find in the game could be oversights, bugs, or just plain poor design or imbalances. But many things could just be intended to be as they are. Video and game crashes are fairly easy to agree about, but spawn camping ventures into the gray area, where one player can say it’s there so it must be intended, while another finds it to be an unintended exploit. There’s no logical conclusion to be reached about these gray area items. While they exist they will be used, no matter anyone’s opinion on them.

The bottom line for me is that with over half a million players, I expect to find a variety of player types at various times and on various servers. Players I will come to respect as well as players I will judge to be noobs. I will apply my own values to this process.

Play on – Whine less.

BTW - I voted ‘No, I like being a nOOb. And I’m 53 years of age.

Well said.

I've noted this in some of my other posts. But the post that initiated this thread was not approved by anyone from Tactical Gamer. We normally don't go out into other forums and try and shove our style of play down anyone's throats. We do respond to threads when people are looking for servers that support our style of play, but we don't have any intentions of trying to coerce them by starting threads like this on other sites.

As far as being honorable or "more honorable". The concept of being honorable in the TG servers is obviously different than the same concept on other servers. The entire Gentlemen's Contract, being out of place by being posted on this site, doesn't carry the same message as it does posted within the framework of the Tactical Gamer community. So please don't take any offense by that.

I completely agree with you about the designer's intent. It's a moot point to discuss.