The Herzog

[Vreki]

Ok you do realize that the Herzog is limited because you have to switch to it first in order to fire it? If you could fire it while in rifle mode (like another button) then it would work.

The three seconds it takes to swap weapon modes is more than enough time for anyone to take you out.

The only equipment an assault must have is rockets and defib. Anything less is depriving yourself of the class.

The answer you quoted was in reply to his claim that the Herzog can not one shot kill. I don't really see how swap time is relevant to that question?

Besides you don't seriously think that a Herzog user first switches to the shotgun when he encounters an enemy at close range?
It is done when you anticipate CQB, so the swap time is no more relevant than for any other weapon.

[Diamond621]

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The three seconds it takes to swap weapon modes is more than enough time for anyone to take you out.

First off...three seconds? It barely takes 1.5 to switch a weapon using the appropriate hotkey.

Second off...who is stupid enough to change to this in the middle of a firefight? If you're doing this, then it's a deserved kill for the enemy. Anticipate the situation and have the weapon out beforehand.

Bah! By the time you pull off 2 shots (which are required to kill)

Negative. The Herzog can one hit kill any infantry at point blank range with a precise shot to the upper torso/neck region.

@Diamond
Watch out buddy, players like me don't chase people with out knifes out. If I miss the knife and I see some movement after, I don't think twice, the gun will be out.

Good. I applaud efficient and smart players who know how to put a clean kill before a childish lust for dogtags. If you get the jump on me, and are at that distance from me without me detecting you, then you deserve to kill me, be it with a knife or with a firearm. Cheers.

...a Voss user will destroy you.

Only one shot is required if you place it well. In addition, the Herzog has the advantage of maneuverability, which is more than enough to escape from most Voss confrontations untouched. Rapid strafes, dives, crouches and constant movement gives a distinct mobility edge over the Voss. In addition, with the Herzog's rate of fire, those one or two shots come at you remarkably fast. The Voss can barely unload 5 or 6 rounds before two blasts from the Herzog can be fired. If you're using more than two, your aim sucks. I have had a great deal of success standing up to Voss users with the Herzog. An evasive maneuver or two coupled with one or sometimes two quick and accurate shots, and the Voss rarely has a chance except in the most proficient hands. Statistically and practically, it is simply more powerful and more effective than the Voss (edit: and pre-1.40, the Clark!) in CQB.

And to all those using PK/Herzog combos: please don't. It's a waste of effort. Carry a defib instead of both add-ons, they use the same ammo so you'll run out twice as fast.

It seems a lot of people misunderstood me and came to their own conclusions instead of the one I explicitly stated in my post. I only recommend a dual loadout (rockets and shotgun) if you are in a large, close-knit squad. In this situation your teammates can cover your revivification needs, as at least one of you should always be alive. You're more than capable of switching kits with another Assault in the squad to revive people, if that one person is you. The added offensive potency makes up for, in kills and squad placement orders, what you would normally get through revives. It works, folks, but only in specific situations.

In a well-organized squad, ammo is in no shortage either, through support players or, in a pinch, supply drops. With this loadout you will be a Support player's best friend, in fact. The clip extension upgrade is obviously a must if you use a dual loadout.

[Wizrdwarts]

Sadly an organized squad is hard to come by in pub servers.

And can someone confirm/deny that movement/stance/jumping has no effect on shotgun accuracy? I've heard it before but I don't know how to work all those #s in the stats pages.

[Diamond621]

Sadly an organized squad is hard to come by in pub servers.

Sad but true .

And can someone confirm/deny that movement/stance/jumping has no effect on shotgun accuracy? I've heard it before but I don't know how to work all those #s in the stats pages.

As someone who uses the Herzog regularly, consider it confirmed. While the usual restrictions are in place (no firing while sprinting or jumping) other movement has no effect on accuracy, shot spacing or blast spread.

[Cann0n-Fodder]

Most of the time I curse the Herzog because I pick up a dead soldier's kit so I can lob rockets at a heavily fortified enemy position but nooo! The darn noob who died picked the shotgun and probably died trying to use it.

I've always viewed the shotgun attachment as noobish since rockey volleys are much more devastating and effective. You can get 2-4 people with a good placed 4 rocket volley from a distance AND the rockets can quickly destroy FAV's and Rorsch's..

Or the person has rockets AND shotgun and I curse the Herzog once more because I picked up the kit so I could rezz teammmates.

I have been schooled good by Herzog shotgunners a few times in the past week but I don't use it myself because of the small ammo size of 3/4. Minus about 1 or 2 shots that miss and you'll probably only kill 1 or 2 guys max from a herzog clip.

[Lt Davis]

I don't like the herzog. PKs beat it any day.

[imported_Ekalb]

I started using the herzog (added on to my Scar) today to practice for if/when I unlock the clark.
It was pretty fun except I have to get used to the fact I'm not gonna go too well fire at medium-long range targets.
It was very fun and useful when a target appears in front of me and with one click of the mouse well... they're aren't there anymore :yay:

I haven't unlocked the rockets yet and the reason I'm considering going for the clark is because I just like the shotguns for some reason.

[Mazee]

I started using the herzog (added on to my Scar) today to practice for if/when I unlock the clark.
It was pretty fun except I have to get used to the fact I'm not gonna go too well fire at medium-long range targets.
It was very fun and useful when a target appears in front of me and with one click of the mouse well... they're aren't there anymore :yay:

I haven't unlocked the rockets yet and the reason I'm considering going for the clark is because I just like the shotguns for some reason.

The clark is much better then the herzog

[Vreki]

The clark is much better then the herzog

But is it better than the Herzog, an AR, a medkit and the defibrillator?
I think the assault shotgun package is better than the support shotgun package

[RMcLeod]

I don't know, I love the Clark and can't wait for the increase in ROF.

I've been able to single handedly defend my Titan with the Clark, IDS and sentry gun. So I guess it's situational as to whether the assault shotty load out is better than the support. For instance I wouldn't expect to last too long on a conquest map with the same load out that I use for Titan Attack/Defense.

I also love being able to strafe around whilst firing without losing accuarcy, gives you an edge in CQB.

[Bobbus]

My main issue with both the shotguns (though more so for the Herzog) is that if your first shot does not kill and your enemy has a decent weapon you are dead. Hell, some Voss/Krylov users kill me from full health before I can even fire the first shot, let alone the second.
Unless the PK rockets are nerfed somehow (something they thoroughly deserve in all respects - be it a maximum range, a sharp increase in their drop, a damage decrease, a splash range decrease, something) there is absolutely no reason not to take them. There is no weapon that comes anywhere close to the sheer ranged spam power of the PK rockets, especially in areas where nades are comparitively ineffective, such as ledges and rooftops.
The Herzog is only marginally more effective than the ARs in close range, and that margin relies on an instant kill. You can only instant kill if a proportion of the pellets hit head or if they are using light armour, so it's somewhat rare.

To reiterate, I think the Herzog is only useful for people who need 4 extra shots, such as Baur users. In all situations, however, it is far better to take the PK rockets for ranged anti-cover ability rather than the Herzog. In close range, you can kill a person in 3-6 shots anyway, weapon and armour dependant.
Nerf PK rockets.

[Deesies]

It would probably be seen more if the rifle rockets weren't much more useful