Weapons in the game

[Sike]

Re: Weapons in the game

Battlefield 3 seems to be mixing realism into the gameplay quite well. I would like to see more games that require you to think a little more than solely rely on aiming skills. A game that requires one to slow the pace down a little while maintaining heavy firefights.

I don't want ArmA II but I certainly don't want Call of Duty.

So, to remain on topic with weapons, I'd like the following:

- Side-based weapons such as M16A4 MWS for the Marines and AK47s for terrorists, AK94s for Russians, etc. (I'm unaware of the factions in this game.)
- Authentic weapon ROF and recoil. I'm sick and tiered of guns that fire insanely fast with 0 recoil. Think MoH and CoD style recoil - avoid it!
- Authentic weapon reloading animations
- Authentically modeled weapons.
- Weapons take 1 second for accuracy to be optimal (think Project Reality).
- I want a sound for reloading. When I hit "R" I want my character to shout "Reloading," when I take a rocket launcher out my character should shout "Clear back-blast," or when I throw a grenade I want "Frag out!"
- Guns don't reload automatically when empty. I love the "Click" sound at the end of an empty magazine.

Enough of this unlocking superior weapons crap. Give the BluFor M16s and M4s, M249s and M240s, M40A4s and M107s, M9 Barettas and M1911A1s. Give OpFor AK74s and AK101s, RPKs and PMGs, SVDs and SSVDs.

Model proper attachments for each weapon. The M16A4 MWS and M4s have rail mounts for the same optics such as ACOGs, red dots and holographic sights, they have very distinctive mounts for these sighting systems. Then give them flashlights in their PEQs with IR lasers they can see with NVG. The LMGs also mount these optics on similar mounts. Keep it authentic! Authentic IS cool, enough of this left-side ejection port so our screen is cluttered with spent casings.

You want motivation and goals? Give people challenges they won't get rewards for. What ever happened to BF2's 0-profit bragging right awards? Have a ranking system based on the challenges completed. Maybe we can think of a non-gay perk system for the game. Also more teamwork oriented gameplay modes and challenges.

/ready for flaming

you sir, i give you a cookie, i thought i was the only person that was bothered by left side ejection ports, incorrect reload anims etc. bugged the hell out of me in BC2

[-Shifty-]

Re: Weapons in the game

Only after a lot of people started unlocking and using the perks and scopes; red dot+stabilizer=total ownage; before then DICE couldn't have anticipated that on PC th eM60 would overpowered all th eother weapons so much. (it wasn't an issue on console because everybody has autoaim and you don't actually need to center the guns on your target)
Also consoles have less recoil and deviation for some reason, and all weapons do double damage from their PC counterpart; so everything was very well balanced.

Aiming with mouse introduced "problems" that couldn't be feasible anticipated. Out of the package the G3 blows, the type 88 is kind of pointless; on consoles the locked on 3 shot burst AR suck but are godlike on PC.

And the problem with asimetric warfare is just that; it's asimetric; you can't balance that out anyways. It's already been mentioned with a recent game like 2142; arguably the SCAR11 and the Krylov were "the same" but objectively the Krylov is a better assault rifle only surpassed by the Voss; and you would see it, the Voss wasn't locked to any faction and both sides would abuse it to no end with the odd person here and there choosing the BAUR just so they wouldn't be accused of going with the flavor of the year weapon.

Back on BF2 it was the PKM that was more powerful regarding LMG; and you would see USMC killing MEC to pick it up since it was a 200 clip sniper rifle, the SAW was nowhere near and after a couple of months maps featuring the chinese wouldn't get play anyways and all of their weapons blew too.

The Krylov was better since it had less deviation and you could run and gun more effectively even tough you could too with the SCAR wich was more accurate when ADS was used; but both paled in comparison with the Voss in both aspects even if the Voss needed more bullets to kill an anemey; with its rof so high, you got kills faster anyways. The BAUR got patched so it had less deviation, but they also reduced the bullets in the clips, so you did more damage but you ran out of ammo real fast and couldn't keep up. if they had kept the original 30 round clip, then it would had been a viable alternative to the Voss as it would still need careful aiming and you couldn't run and gun with it.

The only objectively reasonable solution is to give everybody the same weapon loadout like in BC2; so maybe instead of forcing people to a specific weapon, make every weapon more "realistic" in its handling?

Other solution would be giving each faction the same number of weapons to unlock; and make them equivalent to the other faction; so an M16 for an AK74? exact same stats but you could also choose the M4 and AK94; I fail to see how more options are bad.

I really dislike the fact I can't seem to agree with anything you've written. It troubles me as I cannot quite put my thoughts to word on the matters you've addressed. However, I'll give it a go, so bare with me if you please.

First of all, consoles and computers are very different platforms. When companies make games for each system without making much needed gameplay balancing and performance tweaks; the game becomes unplayable on one of the two platforms. Consoles have a much bigger market so that's where all the effort goes when a company puts little effort into making a separate game as opposed to making a console game and porting it which saves time, (remember time = money.)

That being said, one game on the Xbox360/PS3 cannot be compared to it's PC counterpart. One game actually allowed PC players to play against console players online and guess which group of individuals got a thorough, humbling, ass-kicking? The company (darn I can't remember the game or company) resorted to adding massive deviation to computer players and weaker weapons. The computer gamers still prevailed. The game died AFAIK.

The point I'm trying to get across before getting into weapon specifics is the fact a console's weapons are going to need to be much more powerful and accurate than a computer's weapons due to the console's aiming joystick.

With that being said, I'm going to refer to the computer gameplay only. Now, I'm 18 and I've been playing computer games since I was 6. My uncle, who got me into FPS games, always taught me to use the underdog weapons if I ever wanted to be good at anything. So I took his advice and it was quite useful. After a while, the weapons people referred to as bad became just as good as the ones people kept telling me were good. A few examples would be your Krylov vs SCAR and M16A2 vs AK101 arguments.

Each gun has it's pros and cons. That's what makes it so fun to play different factions. You get variety. Variety is the spice of life. Do you realize how boring it would be to have differently modeled weapons with the same coding? It's like only having 30 identically designed t-shirts in 30 different colors. What about long-sleeve shirts, coats, jackets, polos, etc. ? The AK101 didn't dominate the M16A2, neither did the SCAR lose to the Krylov consistently. The Krylov sucks at range? Add PK rockets! The SCAR sucks up close? Load up my under-barrel shotgun! The M16A2 sucks up close? Stay away! The AK101 is inaccurate far out? Get up close and personal!

I am a BAUR fan (My name is Bradley so, Brad's Automatic Uber Rifle = BAUR). The gun is a long range can of whoop ass. The Voss is a short range can of whoop ass. Use them as intended. People prefer close action usually so guess why the Voss was always the most popular? The recoil isn't terrible because you're up so close you don't notice the thing flies all over it's x-axis of deviation. The BAUR just goes straight up and is actually easier since it's more of a y-axis deviation.

I think it's safe to say after typing this up and gathering my thoughts a bit that your classification of the M16, SCAR, and BAUR as junk is what I can't agree with. Remember I was taught to use the underdog and I'm not having problems with the Voss, Krylov, M16A2 or SCAR-11.

All of the excuses you use such as easier to run and gun and the like can be dismissed if you pause, take a breath, think, and stay a bit further back from the action and take it a little slower if you can't run and gun.

------ Weapons and factions ------

I hope Battlefield 3 has different weapons for it's factions. Remember above I said nobody cares which team they're on in Call of Duty 4 onwards? I like to care which team I'm on. It's fun to play the bad guys or play the good guys, it adds a little roleplay to the dumbed down run and gun reaction-based gameplay of this generation of games. There's no more thought to anything. Just auto-select a team, grab the fastest shooting gun and charge mindlessly and let your reactions prevail over your strategy.

lol @ instant gratification gameplay nowadays. I didn't mind loading for 2 minutes in BF2 because it made getting into the game more enjoyable.

Now I feel like I'm not making any more sense, going completely off topic, and sounding like an old man only remembering the good things in nostalgic reflection to the past whilst forgetting everything I used to hate and complain about. I miss gaming :P Darn laptop, I need my rig back.

Just try not to go with statistics all the time. Think outside the box.

I love my BAUR

[Lordsethonan]

Re: Weapons in the game

Man I'm a BAUR user too; I know it's best from mid to long range and how it is a mini sniper rifle; that's not the issue.

The issue is, when a single weapon that is arguably better than everything else available, people will naturally float towards its use until nerfed or a new combo kit is found that is better.

What I am arguing for; is the fact that more choices for loadouts will make more people try to find what they are more comfortable with; I for one, can't use what are arguably the "best" weapons in BC2 except for perhaps the M60 since it lends itself very well to my usual playing style.
My argument is that design should focus more on making every weapon viable, not similar; and to try to reduce the ammount of "best" weapons of any kind. And this is one of the reasons we can't have authentic weapons in a game like BF.

By the nature of the game you can't have weapons with very specific uses since you are required most of the time to cover a lot of functions.

So in BC2 we got a taste of the most assimetric warfare ever with the M60 rambo jesus medics. You had a weapon so unintentionally broken it effectively eclipsed everything else short of a tank. what I'm saying is can you imagine if it was locked to a single faction? At least in BC2 both sides could go all medic, and they DID; no matter what platform it is designed on, if faction locked weapons woul dhad been into place; BC2 would have died with that patch since only one side would have a very objective, clear and enforced tactical advantage.

Arguably, you could kill one rambo jesus medic every now and then, specially if they were newbies; but in the hands of a seasoned player the Rambo Jesus Russian Medic was borderline game breaking. Effective at close range, medium range, max range, countersniping, run and gunning, tactical advancing; ability to revive fallen team mates, self healing, marching spawning point; it got to the point where you saw all medic squads all armed with the damn thing.
Lock it to one side, have one test patch do something like this with any other weapon and you have a dead game.

And ok, DICE won't make a blunder like this on purpose any time soon; but exchanging customizability for authenticity is something games can't afford anymore, no matter who programs and designs them.

Maybe it's because I am not from the US and I could care less if the weapons alloted corresponded to what the USMC or USarmy gets issued with in real life; I'd rather have my game allow me to have more options to custom tailor my soldier to my specific gameplay preferences.
This is why I personally like the XM8 a whole lot in BC2, it's not the design of the weapon itself; it's the fact that it lends itself pretty well for short and medium range with the option of moderate countersniping and will let me to spray and pray in very short range in the case of an emergency; against bunny hoppers that love to abuse the fact that DICE netcode gets wonky wit moderate lag and won't register hitboxes properly.

so I'd like to see more weapons, available for everybody, with more customizations, like camo painting, more scopes appropiate for each gun, supressors, etc.
It would make the gameplay more diverse, it would attract more players, and those both can't be bad things.

[Arid]

Re: Weapons in the game

Everything that you said.

I love you. For everything that you said.

[-Shifty-]

Re: Weapons in the game

Man I'm a BAUR user too; I know it's best from mid to long range and how it is a mini sniper rifle; that's not the issue.

If that's not the issue, than why do you bring it up? You essentially said Brad's Automatic Uber Rifle is inferior to the Krylov and Voss. What do you base this statement on? Just because a bunch of retards like high-cap weapons they can spray doesn't mean it's the best. I think the Voss' recoil is terrible, the thing flies all over the place. The SCAR, Krylov, and BAUR have more predictable recoil patterns and more easily compensated recoil than the Voss.

The issue is, when a single weapon that is arguably better than everything else available, people will naturally float towards its use until nerfed or a new combo kit is found that is better.

You haven't told me why it's better yet. Like I said, nerds like to grab high-cap weapons and run around with them. Why do people use the Voss up close? Because the recoil is so terrible you can't fight long range with it. It's all about high-cap.

What I am arguing for; is the fact that more choices for loadouts will make more people try to find what they are more comfortable with; I for one, can't use what are arguably the "best" weapons in BC2 except for perhaps the M60 since it lends itself very well to my usual playing style.
My argument is that design should focus more on making every weapon viable, not similar; and to try to reduce the ammount of "best" weapons of any kind. And this is one of the reasons we can't have authentic weapons in a game like BF.



By the nature of the game you can't have weapons with very specific uses since you are required most of the time to cover a lot of functions.

You just said we should have more weapons that fill specific roles as opposed to jack-of-all-trade weapons; then you go on to say that we need a weapon that can cover a lot of functions. Interesting

Well, if people wouldn't try to do things out of their weapon's capacity then cry about how much it fails do you think we would need to make these all-around weapons?

So in BC2 we got a taste of the most assimetric warfare ever with the M60 rambo jesus medics. You had a weapon so unintentionally broken it effectively eclipsed everything else short of a tank. what I'm saying is can you imagine if it was locked to a single faction? At least in BC2 both sides could go all medic, and they DID; no matter what platform it is designed on, if faction locked weapons woul dhad been into place; BC2 would have died with that patch since only one side would have a very objective, clear and enforced tactical advantage.

Arguably, you could kill one rambo jesus medic every now and then, specially if they were newbies; but in the hands of a seasoned player the Rambo Jesus Russian Medic was borderline game breaking. Effective at close range, medium range, max range, countersniping, run and gunning, tactical advancing; ability to revive fallen team mates, self healing, marching spawning point; it got to the point where you saw all medic squads all armed with the damn thing.
Lock it to one side, have one test patch do something like this with any other weapon and you have a dead game.

Again with high-capacity spraying. I danced circles around Russian Rambo-Jesus Medics with the AEK-971 which is a default rifle. You just need to adapt, and BC2 lets you do that very well because of the variety of weaponry at your disposal and they're not stupid code-copies with different skins.

Lets watch an M60 video and an AN94 video.

Notice the guy never keeps his trigger pulled, but instead has to fire in single-shot very rapidly to stay on target. Every kill in this video could have been done quicker with an AN94 or my trusty XM8 + ACOG.

I don't know why you keep assuming the weapon everybody goes with is necessarily the best. It's the best for their style of gameplay perhaps, but that doesn't make the gun the best thing since sliced bread.

If you bring me weapon statistics I'll believe you. Until then it's just a matter of playing style and high-cap.

Look at Call of Duty World at War. People loved the Thompson and that Japanese SMG the best and sprayed until a target went down. I kept my 1 shot Springfield and did quite fine even in CQB against this guy.

[Redink]

Re: Weapons in the game

I don't care what kind of guns they create but as long as they do not create one to beat all like in BC2. Oh and I do care, stop making futuristic looking guns.!

[5t3v0]

Re: Weapons in the game

wait, werent you a 2142er? or am I incorrect?

[Redink]

Re: Weapons in the game

wait, werent you a 2142er? or am I incorrect?

Nope, I'll admit that I did buy it having high expectation than got let down.
They tried so hard to change all the cheap stuff in bf2 that by doing so they destroyed gameplay and plus I hate the robot theme and the AI drone guns... I absolutely hate AI controlled things.

[Rambo]

Re: Weapons in the game

I absolutely hate AI controlled things.

101% agree with you their.

[Infernalis]

Re: Weapons in the game

They tried so hard to change all the cheap stuff in bf2 that by doing so they balanced the gameplay

Fixed.

[5t3v0]

Re: Weapons in the game

still need to pick meself up a copy of 2142... While future usually isnt my cup of tea, im interested in the concept and heard great things about its balance. Also, Ive gone from being a BF2 fanboy to just a general Battlefield fanboy. I need 1942 and 2142 to complete my collection

[jimykx]

Re: Weapons in the game

To be honest i had more "epic moments" in bf2142 than in bf2. Although i would allways go back to play sniper because i didnt really enjoy sniping in bf2142

[AvalancheDiode]

Re: Weapons in the game

IF they were to add that stuff (APM) back, I would want it like that.

Crunch

No, bring back BF2143.

After BF3 is released, of course.

[muffinmn100]

Re: Weapons in the game

No, bring back BF2143.

After BF3 is released, of course.

Yes Please

[Sike]

Re: Weapons in the game

i wonder if the parachute system will be in.