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How should Jets and AA be done in BF3?

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  • How should Jets and AA be done in BF3?

    I loved the jets in BF2 because of how fast and manuverable they were. You could do bomb runs and strafe with the cannons and dog fights were great! The helis were great to fly and were just outright fun. Handled good and everything.

    What I didnt like was the defense. the stationary weapons were hit and miss, literally and mobile AA was a bit slow to reload or a lot of cover for jets. The helis were overpowered when it came to trying to take them down.

    In 2142 it took a lot more to learn to fly and the defenses for it was a lot stronger. A good pilot could still do some damage, but your average joe blow couldnt take everything over.

    I think a balance of these would be great for BF3. Thats my OPINION, what do you all think about it?

    Crunch
    Twitter: @CptainCrunch
    Battlelog/Origin: CptainCrunch

  • #2
    Re: How should Jets and AA be done in BF3?

    I think the fundamental question is: What is a proper counter for a high speed aircraft?
    And with counter I mean predator, something that it fears just like a infantry fears a tank, and like a tank fears a jet.

    *It needs to be mobile
    *WWII style AA guns are quite frankly too slow, the jet is gone again before
    'Self guided missiles are too easy if they work, and a complete failure when they don't.
    *Mobile AA guns with radar like in POE2 could work, but they need spawn protection or pilots will just continuously hammer their spawn points.

    I would really like to see an AA weapons in one of the kits. It is the one thing in the game that could adapt to the level of air threat, as a good pilot would cause more and more to go AA, just like a good tank causes more Engineers.
    But how to make it require skill without being useless?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: How should Jets and AA be done in BF3?

      If we go with handheld AA weapons, then they cannot be a one-hit kill, they need to be pretty much useless against ground forces (require a lock-on, not have a dependable flight pattern without one, or whatever else), and the player must have a weak primary weapon when compared to assault classes.

      Also, flares need to actually work in BF3.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: How should Jets and AA be done in BF3?

        Instant lock on.

        Again. I've played in a mod that had stingers on assault kids with 2 stingers to each kit I think. The mod was basically BF2 with few things added and few things changed. It was still hard to take down a jet but ANYTHING is better than nothing. It did help.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: How should Jets and AA be done in BF3?

          The Engineer class would be an obvious choice.
          And the damage could just be neglible against ground forces.

          But the question is, how would you design a weapon that requires skill and kills fighters just as well as AT kills tanks?
          Among other things, a noob AA should have a decent chance of killing a noob pilot, and a l33t of killing a l33t pilot.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: How should Jets and AA be done in BF3?

            Btw, why cant they be a one hit kill? Say a hit directly to the engine?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: How should Jets and AA be done in BF3?

              Originally posted by LunaTiK TunaLiK
              Instant lock on.
              That would make AA overpowered, I think.
              (Also, says someone with over 600 hours on Karkand)

              Originally posted by Vreki
              Btw, why cant they be a one hit kill? Say a hit directly to the engine?
              Rockets aren't a one hit kill to tanks, even to their rear. And if flares are anything like they were in BF2 (even if they work, but have to "reload"), once two rockets are coming your way, you're toast. And say you're doing good in a jet, well, you're bound to make some enemies go out of their way to take you down, so they'll just switch to that weapon and you have no chance at all.

              It'd be like if you were raping in a tank 100% armor, and someone spawns, turns, shoots, you're dead.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: How should Jets and AA be done in BF3?

                Originally posted by Vreki
                I think the fundamental question is: What is a proper counter for a high speed aircraft?
                And with counter I mean predator, something that it fears just like a infantry fears a tank, and like a tank fears a jet.

                *It needs to be mobile
                *WWII style AA guns are quite frankly too slow, the jet is gone again before
                'Self guided missiles are too easy if they work, and a complete failure when they don't.
                *Mobile AA guns with radar like in POE2 could work, but they need spawn protection or pilots will just continuously hammer their spawn points.

                I would really like to see an AA weapons in one of the kits. It is the one thing in the game that could adapt to the level of air threat, as a good pilot would cause more and more to go AA, just like a good tank causes more Engineers.
                But how to make it require skill without being useless?
                Yes, there is nothing wrong with stationary, mobile, or handheld as long as they work against aircraft and not so much as a King Carl.

                Originally posted by Spik3d
                If we go with handheld AA weapons, then they cannot be a one-hit kill, they need to be pretty much useless against ground forces (require a lock-on, not have a dependable flight pattern without one, or whatever else), and the player must have a weak primary weapon when compared to assault classes.

                Also, flares need to actually work in BF3.
                YES! They cant be paper planes. They should be like tanks where 3 or so hits are needed to take them down. Now if they get hit by a TOW missle, maybe a one hit kill, which it was in BF2.

                Originally posted by LunaTiK TunaLiK
                Instant lock on.
                If they decide instant lock on, then I think DICE should limit distance. Otherwise planes will be locked on and blown up before getting into the air.

                Crunch
                Twitter: @CptainCrunch
                Battlelog/Origin: CptainCrunch

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: How should Jets and AA be done in BF3?

                  Make mobile AA and Stationary AA more powerful (more defense, quicker reload, whatever). And what i think is most important, make it so that Jets cannot see tanks/aa when they look at them but only when they are spotted. That way a god like pilot will still have difficulty trying to carry a **** team.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: How should Jets and AA be done in BF3?

                    I've just noticed that if the jet pilot is any good at all the only time aa on the ground helps is when you are shooting at a jet who is being followed by another jet.

                    Typically a Jet comes in and by the time you have a lock the flares come out then the jet is gone.

                    There has always been a distance to locking on and another problem with that is the jet can see the guy sitting in the aa way before the aa can get a lock.

                    I really think that jets should not be able to be stolen and possibly impervious to damage before take off in at least the noncappable mains. You can send a few people to a main base and they can reek havoc on the other team. You gotta bring people back from where the battle should really be at and before you know it you have half the team fighting in the main base so that your jets and assets stay up. If you don't it's a complete slaughter.

                    I would even go as far as to keep jets from being stolen in cappable mains . If jets don't spawn there when the other team gets the flag jets shouldn't be able to be stolen.

                    It is very rewarding in BF2 for jets to work and be able to talk to the guys running AAA. "I have a jet on me and I'm going to do circles over you, look up" It's still not enough to be balanced but when aa and jets work together it makes a big difference. If you don't have the ability to put jets in the air then aa on the ground becomes almost useless.

                    Give armor flares if bombers have lock on laser guided missiles. Or just take the second seat out of the bomber all together. How something like that which requires no type of practice or skill made it into bf2 I do not know.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: How should Jets and AA be done in BF3?

                      Originally posted by CptainCrunch

                      YES! They cant be paper planes. They should be like tanks where 3 or so hits are needed to take them down. Now if they get hit by a TOW missle, maybe a one hit kill, which it was in BF2.
                      Then the weapons much also have the range to actually hit them three times. This is to kill, not scare away.
                      Multiple hits works in tanks because they cannot escape as readily as a plane. And they also have a lot more enemies.

                      IMHO there also need to be a pretty good chance of killing the pilot together with the plane.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: How should Jets and AA be done in BF3?

                        The worst thing about games like this is you can't balance people.

                        Where there is a game with vehicles there will be retards who sit and wait for the vehicle. Having to put so much time in them for a medal to get a rank doesn't help either.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: How should Jets and AA be done in BF3?

                          Originally posted by Vreki
                          Then the weapons much also have the range to actually hit them three times. This is to kill, not scare away.
                          Multiple hits works in tanks because they cannot escape as readily as a plane. And they also have a lot more enemies.

                          IMHO there also need to be a pretty good chance of killing the pilot together with the plane.
                          Well, I agree, but they cant be as powerful as the TukTuk either. They need to have some chances as well. Maybe hits in certain areas are instant and others are not. Or stationary are a 2 hit, AT a 1 hit, and handheld weapons 3 or 2 as well. If they are easy to take down, then there is no point to them.

                          Crunch
                          Twitter: @CptainCrunch
                          Battlelog/Origin: CptainCrunch

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: How should Jets and AA be done in BF3?

                            Variety of systems needs to be available

                            Kit based soldier AA, like 2142 or Vietnam heatseekers would be great, not sure how exactly it would work

                            Mobile AA platforms, firing both flak and missiles, perhaps have a co-operative radar system whereby if one player on your team locks onto an enemy aircraft, other people can get instant lock on?

                            Stationary AA - using both flag, missiles etc, vads/zeus aa like in BC2 but also with missiles (sam sites?)

                            other tweaks such as to the pilots hud (and the all seeing eye) would help

                            plane damage as well, don't think it should be one hit kill, (unless say you were on a carrier AA system which would be powerful to discourage base rape etc) but perhaps damage has different impacts, like engine damage slowing you down etc

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: How should Jets and AA be done in BF3?

                              Keep it real

                              Jets pwn but they are weak and made of paper,Just make it like that.No more tank shells to helos and they just fly of laughing please.

                              No more stupid missiles give me canons.

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