people always tellin me to bail out?wtf

[imported_kiwi]

I'm not having fun with tree huggers and national geographics photographers taking pictures of wildlife.

I assume that it is their fun :)

(Yes their fun ruins your fun )

[Chris_Redfield]

This has little to nothing to do with whether UT and BF2 are different or not.
The example could even apply to chess, football, paintball, MMO's, hell ... pacman multiplayer probably even qualifies.

Actually, it as everything to do with the differences between games. The player communities completely different from other games. Not only that, like I said, if youre flying 300 metres above the ground, everything and everyone becomes an anoymous 2+ icon. Its exactly like that. Sportsmalike behaviour or lack of it has nothing to do with the simple fact that because of the fast pace in the game, death toll being huge (death of millions a statistic? Yes) and lack of "face to face, hand to hand" combat between air and ground, is what makes it so easy to "rape" without any emotional attachments.

Dont believe me? Start flying in BF2, accumulate 200 hours and youll find yourself in a routine. No names, no people. Just routine.

[#1 LoGoS.^CyN.TV*]

1500 hours over 2 years isn't bad.

Say I've played for 2.2 years. That gives me 800 days of playing.

1500 hours over 2.2 years = 1.8 hours a day

Sure there have been days when I play more than 2 hours, and plenty days when I play none at all.

[The Laughing Man]

Wow... Exactly how many hours do you have in a chopper, whats your KDR 8on average) and whats your input in the chopper, towards the victory of the team?

None I hate chopper and freely admit I have no ability to fly one. I prefer fast jets and have contributed to team efforts as much as anyone else who flies one. The difference though is that I am not arrogant enough to presume that every jet in every round is my personal property, I am also comfortable enough to admit that on occasion I do take jets for purely selfish reasons because it allows easy kills and I am certainly not arrogant enough (or stupid enough whatever way you want to look at it) to use the argument of doing it for the good of the team when it's so clear that team work is not my singular goal in fact it's not even a consideration.

Because you sound as if you were clueless. Youre telling a guy without bullets, to go to the front lines, try to fight a sniper. If he cant do it, if he gets killed, he doesnt know how to adapt.

Lol, your argument is so flawed. You're saying that a chopper pilot without a chopper, in this game, is incapable of getting a kill in any other way without the chopper. You're kidding, you have to be kidding you can't be THAT stupid

Sorry, youre already been proven wrong.

Oh god I have well that's my world shattered then, go have a beer and give yourself a slap on the back you've won. Now let's pretend that first I care about being 'wrong' and second that you have actually done or said anything to even half way prove this amazing assumption.

Since BF2 1.0 chopper and jet pilots have been put through more need for adapting, than regular infantry.

LOL by the introduction of patches, that's forced adaptation as everyone has had to do at some point or another. You can't sit there and argue team workmanship without being able to willing adapt to what your team mates are going to do and that includes the possibility that a noob may want to co-pilot with you.

You fail. Your problem, pin it onto yourself.

I prefer to pin YOUR failing on YOU, please don't make arbitrary meaningless statements to cover your own inadequacies.

For me, BF2 air aspect, and armor aspect somewhat too, are the only fun aspects to play. Im not interested in going through those "million" things when pretty much all of them suck so bad that I cant see who in their sane minds can enjoy them.

Lol and in one fail swoop you have proven my point. If you are unwilling to assist in a chopper because a noob is in it then go doing something else. Now according to your previous statement a chopper pilot can't do that because he'll get killed and that won't be fun. Is that the case, really? So what's the comment about armour all about then... oh my god is that a chopper pilot speaking about doing something beyond flying a chopper and having fun... lol thanks for that Chris takes ability to argue with yourself.

Maybe the air experts like you, with 45 minutes spent on air as a total, 5 as takeoffs and 40 as crashes, can enlighten me, because you seem to know a great deal what youre talking about.

Perhaps you can enlighten me as to what this statement has to do with basic respect. That's what I am talking about having the balls, being enough of a man to work out that noobs are out there, that they paid for the game the same as you did that they have every right to use the resource as you do and that NOTHING gives you any more right to demand they get out and yield the chopper just so you can play it. If that's the case then judging by your posts then yeah I do know a lot more about it than you do.

The stats are freely available if you want to use examples of experience then look them up, making up arbitrary values to justify pointless statements makes you look ignorant at best and plainly stupid at worst.

Go away, you have absolutely no clue what the fvck youre talking about.

Is this worthy of response. Have you proven that YOU know what YOU'RE talking about. I am failing to see it. Please explain is this another sad little statement about being serious but having fun, not enjoying the fact that you might get killed once in a while.

The consensus is that we are in no way obligated to spend our fun and play times educating the likes of you. And Ive done that in the past. There are 3 possible outcomes to this.

Your ignorance is getting laughable now, assumption is not fact. I don't care about the chopper I am crap in the chopper and as such stay away from it. I have no desire to learn and no desire to be taught I chose to do other things. My problem is with the total lack of respect you guys seem to show to fellow players. You're like the guy that's been driving for 5 years who sits up the learners *** with the opinion that because you can drive well they shouldn't be on the road at the same time as you. It's pathetic.

No. You dont get it. Dont pretend like you do. For the sake of fairness, drop this argument and go fly at least 50 hours in the chopper, as gunner and as a pilot, then come back. I find that when people are speaking out of their asses, its like arguing with a religious nut. Im a practical man, youre a theoretical man.

I have no intention to fly chopper, as stated. I fly fast jet so I am aware of the noob stealing resource that prevents me from having fun concept that you're banging away at. The difference is I don't automatically assume that because I've logged 50 hours in a jet and that I am quite good I should automatically be the only person that gets to fly it. Tell me how's it any different me walking up to an occupied jet and demanding that the noob get out so I can fly than you demanding that the noob get out the chopper in some cases so someone else can fly or in the worse case so that you can fly off alone. The difference is that if the noob stays I am stuck on the carrier doing nothing in your case you still get to fly, you still get to do something and yes you may die but SO WHAT?

I don't really care what else you have to say with regards to this topic Chris. You're arguing from the selfish point of view of

'it might spoil my fun'

ahhh didums, really, how sad.

I am arguing from the point of view of having basic respect for your fellow player. A fact you have very obviously failed to grasp the comical thing is that you still further attempt to justify this by saying you have given 'so much to this community' Your arrogance is amazing. You've given stuff to the community ergo I am allowed to treat new comers like scum, I've flown for 50 hours in a chopper ergo I own that vehicle whenever I am on a server. It takes true arrogance to use good deeds as justification for acting like an a*s.

If only Mother Terresa had been like you she could have gone round killing puppies and setting fire to people's children and gotten away with it.

[#1 LoGoS.^CyN.TV*]

None I hate chopper and freely admit I have no ability to fly one.

THEN SHUT THE F*CK UP.

[The Laughing Man]

THEN SHUT THE F*CK UP.

Let me guess another arrogant chopper whore who thinks he bought a special edition gold plated version of the game that entitles only him to play with that one resource. Get bent mate.

[waaah_wah]

Let me guess another arrogant chopper whore who thinks he bought a special edition gold plated version of the game that entitles only him to play with that one resource.

Worse... He thinks hes Gods gift to a videogame

[#1 LoGoS.^CyN.TV*]

Let me guess?

Can you read?

Do you see my signature?

Can you read my name?

If you don't know how to fly or gun in a chopper, you shouldn't have a say in a chopper flying and gunning thread. Shut. The. F*ck. Up.

[DarQraven]

@Redfield: maybe I should make my posts shorter for you. I don't really think you read them. If you do, you're not getting the point.

Regardless of what game you're playing, you should show good sportmanship. Especially when you're one of the people that can greatly affect a match due to a) the power of jets and choppers and b) your skill level.

"Getting in a routine" is not a justification for anything, by the way. But that's beside the point because you're trying to prove me wrong on something I didn't say.

I'm not telling you you can't bomb people anymore because you're good, I'm telling you that there is a limit to what you should and shouldn't do on public servers. If you can't imagine that limit yourself I'm not going to be able to explain it to you.
The only reason I even mentioned the killing example is to show that when you have skills far above others, having fun, fair matches for both parties becomes harder and harder. This goes for your team as well.

Imagine: what if BF2 had limited infantry slots? Only 10 people could be infantry at any given time. Would that justify groundpounders telling 'regular' players that they can't play infantry anymore because they might not resurrect or heal them in time? Or because they might not cap a flag that more experienced players would have capped?

@Sloi, that post only confirms my argument.
You're almost at the top of the food chain, yet you join servers for normal people and expect them to be just as good as you or bugger off? Where should they go then?

Nobody is forcing you to play in a clan. Practice/war schedules can be tiresome and a whole clan depending on you when you're having a bad day doesn't really improve the fun.
The difference here is something I mentioned before: The BF2 community is suprisingly unrefined when it comes to high-skillers. You're either in a clan(1337), or your not(n00b).

I assume you know what pick-up games are? I assume you have means of contacting(IRC, MSN, Xfire, GSA, etc) other top-ranking players or at least know who they are?
Play them, and THEN you can tell people to get out if they are doing a bad job. My opinion, and probably 95% of the BF2 players' opinion, is that pub servers are bound to the lowest common denominator.(Because those other 95% are the pub players that aren't in clans) You can't expect to have intense pro battles in there all the time, and you can't blame people that play the game every once in a while for not being as good as you.

[#1 LoGoS.^CyN.TV*]

Just lock this thread, Jesus Christ.

[waaah_wah]

Let me guess?

Can you read?

Do you see my signature?

Can you read my name?

If you don't know how to fly or gun in a chopper, you shouldn't have a say in a chopper flying and gunning thread. Shut. The. F*ck. Up.

Lol somehow i end up laughing after reading your posts. God some ppl are messed up:shakehead

[The Laughing Man]

Let me guess?

Can you read?

Do you see my signature?

Can you read my name?

If you don't know how to fly or gun in a chopper, you shouldn't have a say in a chopper flying and gunning thread. Shut. The. F*ck. Up.

The fact it happens to be about choppers is chance, it could equally be about tanks, jets or any other resource that limits and sets players apart. The point I am debating is respecting each other in game. That nothing means you have any more right to have that resource than anyone else.

What's getting more and more comical is that the people arguing the toss about why they have the right are also the ones that are failing time and again to see this point.

[Chris_Redfield]

None I hate chopper and freely admit I have no ability to fly one.

Classic. A 9 year old kid trying to teach a nuclear physicist how to run a nuclear powerplant. Brilliant. Just... brilliant.

I urge you to go and actually play the game, before you go batsh!t with your comments about bad and selfish people in the game. Yes, because in theory, everything is nice and everything can be done. In practice, colours fade and youre dealing with gritty realism of interweb gaming. Frag or be fragged.

I prefer fast jets and have contributed to team efforts as much as anyone else who flies one.

And you think jets and choppers are the same?

My my :laugh:

Nr 1 reason why Ive stuck with jets only thus far, is exactly it, theres noone else to rely on, except me and myself.

The difference though is that I am not arrogant enough to presume that every jet in every round is my personal property, I am also comfortable enough to admit that on occasion I do take jets for purely selfish reasons because it allows easy kills and I am certainly not arrogant enough (or stupid enough whatever way you want to look at it) to use the argument of doing it for the good of the team when it's so clear that team work is not my singular goal in fact it's not even a consideration.

"The difference"? When have I, even once, inclined that jets are "my personal property".

Listen, if youre going to lie and make crap up, at least be a little more subtle, OK? Just so you know.

Lol, your argument is so flawed. You're saying that a chopper pilot without a chopper, in this game, is incapable of getting a kill in any other way without the chopper. You're kidding, you have to be kidding you can't be THAT stupid

Actually my argument is spot on. I didnt say "without a rifle", I said "without bullets". Now that weve stuffed your foot into your throat, heres a little insight as weve established you actually know jack-sh!t about the topic at hand. If youre flying with a pilot witout TV guidance skills, any even remotely reasonable competition will get you out of the skies. Potentially you will never be able to get in range for FFARs nor cannons. Youre a sitting duck with no ways to fight, literall. All you can do, is plink infantry and shoot at an occasional tank. As soon as someone mans an STA, youre either dead meat or have to scoot. Basically, you are equipped with a rifle with no ammo. Now, go and try to get that sniper.

Oh god I have well that's my world shattered then, go have a beer and give yourself a slap on the back you've won. Now let's pretend that first I care about being 'wrong' and second that you have actually done or said anything to even half way prove this amazing assumption.

Sorry, Im not the one with assumptions here. Youre the one who openly admitted he was talking out of his ***. GG though.

LOL by the introduction of patches, that's forced adaptation as everyone has had to do at some point or another. You can't sit there and argue team workmanship without being able to willing adapt to what your team mates are going to do and that includes the possibility that a noob may want to co-pilot with you.

Sorry, cant adapt if theres no way to overcome the problem. STA range is 375 metres, would you accept a challenge? You with FFARs against me in the Mobile STA? See how well you can adapt. Its meant as a half-joke, but the problem itsself is real. Patch 1.2 has changed the air aspect of the game more than enough to completely change helicopter and jet dogfighting dynamics. BF2 1.0 and 1.41 in air are nothing alike. While BF2 1.0 and 1.41 are still similar, just that you dont have C4 frisbees and noobtubers. "We" already have adapted. The more skilled folks. People who really dont give a sh!t about the air are lagging behind. They hop into the gunners seat once every blue moon, and its perfectly fine. Dont ask to "overcome" a problem which is so severe in nature, that turns your helicopter into a teethless dog, a dead one if theres someone competent who wants to take you out of the picture.

I prefer to pin YOUR failing on YOU, please don't make arbitrary meaningless statements to cover your own inadequacies.

Wait, what? My inadequacies? Coming from a complete idiot who talks about choppers while openly admitting that he has "none" hours in them? Wow, way to box yourself in! Me redlining you for being incompetent and hindering the team is your problem, not mine. Im not your taxi driver.

Lol and in one fail swoop you have proven my point. If you are unwilling to assist in a chopper because a noob is in it then go doing something else.

I dont think you quite understand. The days when a competent pilot could overcome the incompetent gunner are long gone. People are unwilling to "assist" because they are flying into certain death. Get a few hours in a chopper, in a populated server with solid players. Come back with a sore anus and spill the beans, how was the rape?

Now according to your previous statement a chopper pilot can't do that because he'll get killed and that won't be fun. Is that the case, really?

Yes.

So what's the comment about armour all about then... oh my god is that a chopper pilot speaking about doing something beyond flying a chopper and having fun... lol thanks for that Chris takes ability to argue with yourself.

Wait, what? You find it difficult to believe that armor aspect can be enjoyable for me? Thing about armor is (now, concentrate, I believe you can do it), once again youre relying on yourself, and youre not hindered.

Perhaps you can enlighten me as to what this statement has to do with basic respect. That's what I am talking about having the balls, being enough of a man to work out that noobs are out there, that they paid for the game the same as you did that they have every right to use the resource as you do and that NOTHING gives you any more right to demand they get out and yield the chopper just so you can play it.

Two can play this game. What gives you (indirectly) the right to ask me to taxi your worthless *** around and getting ourselves killed, leeching your enjoyement out through my mysery? Basic respect? Respect goes two ways. You prepare to not to let another person down in the chopper, because you know how hard it is to stay alive if you cant depend on the person controlling the most important functions of the chopper. You want respect? Show an effort. Show initiative. If you dont, and EXPECT me to cater to you, then theres no "basic respect" coming from my end.

If that's the case then judging by your posts then yeah I do know a lot more about it than you do.

Sure you do, Youre living in June 2005, where everyone sucked so bad that there was no difference whether or not you knew how to fly, or not. I regularily see excellent FFAR pilots in the Demo, taxing gunners around who after 30 minutes of plinking into thin air, bail because they arent needed. Times have changed. You might be content with a sub 1:1 KDR in air, but for someone who loves the air aspect and has logged hundreds of hours into it and really, really has a dislike for failure, taxing extra weight around which makes the whole vehicle impotent against any threat, may not be the case.

You want to talk about respect? You dont have a clue.

The stats are freely available if you want to use examples of experience then look them up, making up arbitrary values to justify pointless statements makes you look ignorant at best and plainly stupid at worst.

I wasnt that far off now was I? Instead of a full 45 minutes, you had none. As for calling me stupid, youre the one who took an example out of context and multiplied it with a pinch of tears. Couldnt take the point? Too bad, I guess a metaphorical example behind written text isnt for everyone.

Is this worthy of response. Have you proven that YOU know what YOU'RE talking about. I am failing to see it. Please explain is this another sad little statement about being serious but having fun, not enjoying the fact that you might get killed once in a while.

Shush now, Mr Moody. I believe if we ask the experienced folks who of us is talking out of their *** and who doesnt know what they are talking about, youre going to be pointed out. Death in a videogame is just like losing in checkers. A game is a game. Some take it lightly, others not quite. The problem with team games, where youre 100% dependant on your teammates is, if they are so weak, as a link, that they cant take any pressure, youre going down with them. Now, your stupid understatement here is truly amusing- "get killed once in a while". I guess the fact that you wouldnt be able to get past the first flag without getting killed, has not yet reached your grey matter.

Again, go get at very least, 50 hours in a chopper, come back, share your memories.

Psst, I used to be anti solo, until I tried it.

Your ignorance is getting laughable now, assumption is not fact. I don't care about the chopper I am crap in the chopper and as such stay away from it.

Wait, is this BS coming from a chimp who has 0 hours in a chopper, yet talks of it as if he was an expert? And youre calling me ignorant? Or that Im assuming? Youve described yourself perfectly.

You dont have any experience in the field. You cant operate the vehicle. You cant operate the vehicle with any results and yet youre teaching others how to play. Telling others that they can overcome the incompetence of the likes of you. Amazing, your ignorance indeed is getting laughable. ***ume less.

My problem is with the total lack of respect you guys seem to show to fellow players.

Respect is a two way street. And youre being rude here, ignorant to bood. Sloi has created 3 videos highlighting and explaining how a chopper pilot must operate in an average round. Not to mention a LENGHTY and THROUGHAL chopper guide at www.secretsofbattlefield.com. I personally have trained and taught at least a double digit ammount of pilots, who have later become proficient at their task. Ive also written a full dogfighting guide, aswell as given people a full chart of all jets characteristics. A bombing guide video aswell.

We came prepared and we expect nothing from anyone. You come unprepared and you expect us to taxi you. Now, who shows respect and who doesnt? Respect isnt just limited to words and actions. Attitude is important too.

You're like the guy that's been driving for 5 years who sits up the learners *** with the opinion that because you can drive well they shouldn't be on the road at the same time as you. It's pathetic.

Actually, no. Im the guy thats been driving for 5 years and is constantly urging new drivers to go to various courses to improve themselves. Also, the example is wrong. If Im on the road, driving, Im in control of my vehicle and to a great extent Im in control of the situation in my immediate surroundings. Its not the case with choppers and BF2. Proves just how much you know. It is indeed pathetic.

I fly fast jet so I am aware of the noob stealing resource that prevents me from having fun concept that you're banging away at.

Jets and choppers are COMPLETELY different, entirely. You cant compare a jet to a chopper. Unless youre solo operating it. But were talking about pilot/gunner crew.

The difference is I don't automatically assume that because I've logged 50 hours in a jet and that I am quite good I should automatically be the only person that gets to fly it.

Quote me on where I said I should be the only person? Just because I explain throughally that heavy impact vehicles should be driven by competent people, doesnt mean I think the vehicle is mine. All vehicles are fair game. Amusingly, the TOP of the crowd doesnt TK for jets (jet pilots only, chopper pilots are a different crowd). I have never TKd for a jet. Ive never been TKd by a high tier pilot. But Im almost always in trouble because a low tier pilot thinks the jet is theirs.

Amusing, this attitude- "this is my jet"- is shown mostly by people with average or less than average skillset.

Tell me how's it any different me walking up to an occupied jet and demanding that the noob get out so I can fly than you demanding that the noob get out the chopper in some cases so someone else can fly or in the worse case so that you can fly off alone.

If a noob gets into a jet, your fun wont be broken. If a newbie gets into a chopper and breaks a dedicated chopper team because "he wants to" (I wont even get into how it would affect the whole team), then hes directly wrecking the fun of one person and indirectly wrecking the fun of the whole team. Theres no vehicle in BF2 as powerful as a chopper. No vehicle can drive USMC team off the beach on Oman in less than 3 minutes, only a chopper can.

The difference is that if the noob stays I am stuck on the carrier doing nothing in your case you still get to fly, you still get to do something and yes you may die but SO WHAT?

So you think the "flight" is the fun part? If that was the case, Id be flying in MSFS. Way to "assume".

I don't really care what else you have to say with regards to this topic Chris. You're arguing from the selfish point of view of

'it might spoil my fun'

ahhh didums, really, how sad.

I spent 50 bucks on this game. Not to entertain you, but to entertain myself. Every second, minute of my attention wasted on you, is an act of generosity. An act of respect if you respond in a positive manner, as if you gave a toss. Wasting 15 minutes on teaching a copilot the basics, only to find him say "Yes" and bail out at the nearest flag, is one of the most disappointing and irritating sights ever. So excuse me if Im scared that Im wasting my time on you because secretly I think youre going to put all my effort into a ****hole and flush it down with a nice "I dont give a sh!t" attitude.

So, once again, how many hours have you in a chopper and how competent are you?

You've given stuff to the community ergo I am allowed to treat new comers like scum, I've flown for 50 hours in a chopper ergo I own that vehicle whenever I am on a server. It takes true arrogance to use good deeds as justification for acting like an a*s.

Quote me on where Ive said that.

If only Mother Terresa had been like you she could have gone round killing puppies and setting fire to people's children and gotten away with it.

Only a retard would assume that just because people care little over the net, the qualities are exactly the same in real life.

[waaah_wah]

The bottomline is: Arguing with Chris is like arguing with a woman, they never listen and put words you never spoke in your mouth

[Chris_Redfield]

@Redfield: maybe I should make my posts shorter for you. I don't really think you read them. If you do, you're not getting the point.

Maybe you should apply a little less of your own personal philosophy into the advice on how you think I should play my game, especially when Im playing my game exactly the way it was intended to be played. Thanks.

Regardless of what game you're playing, you should show good sportmanship. Especially when you're one of the people that can greatly affect a match due to a) the power of jets and choppers and b) your skill level.

Youre asking me to stop playing the game because Ive become good at it, or at least severely limit myself in order to not to break anyone elses day? Sorry, no. If I want my team to win, I will push myself 100%, because thats fun for me.

"Getting in a routine" is not a justification for anything, by the way. But that's beside the point because you're trying to prove me wrong on something I didn't say.

No. You just dont understand the concept I was trying to explain. Adversaries become simple targets. Meaningless, worthless, exploitable targets. This has nothing to do with people being bad. Its just how this game works out.

I'm not telling you you can't bomb people anymore because you're good, I'm telling you that there is a limit to what you should and shouldn't do on public servers. If you can't imagine that limit yourself I'm not going to be able to explain it to you.

Wait, what limit? Are we talking about going 100 kills in a round or are we talking about baseraping and exploiting peoples total weakness? And no, youre not telling me that theres a limit. Youre telling me that theres YOUR limit. Play your own game. Let me play mine.

The only reason I even mentioned the killing example is to show that when you have skills far above others, having fun, fair matches for both parties becomes harder and harder. This goes for your team as well.

Sorry, I cant really be arsed to join a random clan just because Im getting "too good" at my game. Especially when the games start to become chores. Ive been in a competitive SWAT4 clan. Ive seen some hard work. I just want to have fun. I havent been in such a clan for over 2 years, and there are very good reasons for this.

Imagine: what if BF2 had limited infantry slots? Only 10 people could be infantry at any given time. Would that justify groundpounders telling 'regular' players that they can't play infantry anymore because they might not resurrect or heal them in time? Or because they might not cap a flag that more experienced players would have capped?

Uhm. Switch a server where only 9 people have occupied the slots? Comparing infantry to air aspect is a futile attempt as they are nothing alike.

The bottomline is: Arguing with Chris is like arguing with a woman, they never listen and put words you never spoke in your mouth

Yes. Cool. Someone who TKs for jets and is horrible in air and has less time spent in squads than an average air whore, also likes to give advice on how jet and chopper pilots should play their game and do "teamwork".

Sorry Waaah, youre a transparent and selfcontradicting fool who couldnt win an argument even with an infant suffering from Down syndrome.