people always tellin me to bail out?wtf

[solofowaffles]

Sloi can you fly me around .

[Sloi sauce]

I'll do more than fly you around, cutie.

[Chris_Redfield]

They have a complete inability to adapt is what I am seeing.

Wow... Exactly how many hours do you have in a chopper, whats your KDR 8on average) and whats your input in the chopper, towards the victory of the team?

Because you sound as if you were clueless. Youre telling a guy without bullets, to go to the front lines, try to fight a sniper. If he cant do it, if he gets killed, he doesnt know how to adapt.

Sorry, youre already been proven wrong. Since BF2 1.0 chopper and jet pilots have been put through more need for adapting, than regular infantry.

You're argument would hold water if flying choppers were the only thing to do in Battlefield but since the game has a million and one things to do besides that, I fail to see how they cannot have fun doing something besides flying the chopper.

You fail. Your problem, pin it onto yourself. For me, BF2 air aspect, and armor aspect somewhat too, are the only fun aspects to play. Im not interested in going through those "million" things when pretty much all of them suck so bad that I cant see who in their sane minds can enjoy them. Maybe the air experts like you, with 45 minutes spent on air as a total, 5 as takeoffs and 40 as crashes, can enlighten me, because you seem to know a great deal what youre talking about.

I'll return to the idea that if they gave the noob a chance the noob may turn out to be good and then everyone has fun

Go away, you have absolutely no clue what the fvck youre talking about.

, if the noob isn't any good then they will get bored and chopper man will have his beloved helicopter all to himself again.

You do understand that rounds last about 20 minutes, and a newbie gunner wont become "good" in just 3, right? Right? I mean, you cannot possibly be that stupid to assume otherwise. Assume, since youve pretty much proven than you have no idea what youre talking about and all you do have to hold on to, is the idea of nobility in a videogame, where time wasting jackasses like you have to be treated with respect and taken care of, even though you have done nothing to deserve said attention. Right?

The consensus I am getting here is that 'I am a chopper leet ergo no one else is allowed near it whilst I want to use it', it borders on pure arrogance. Please correct me if that idea is wrong!

The consensus is that we are in no way obligated to spend our fun and play times educating the likes of you. And Ive done that in the past. There are 3 possible outcomes to this.

A) Theres no opposition in the air, I teach you, you stick around, we kill a few pieces of armor, Im bored out of my fvcking mind because you fail to get the simpliest shots, but I will overlook it because youre putting up an effort and this once, Ill be giving you a shot at having fun. Without having any of my own.

B) I spend 5 minutes teaching you the basics. We die the first thing we get into hotzone. Next time I see you somewhere else, doing something else and a new gunner jumps in who needs to be educated. Thats already half a round wasted and Im becoming irritated. This is by far the most frequent case. I had to completely drop chopper flying, because my dedicated gunners dropped the game, and I didnt want to redline anyone. When I started picking up random people, I was in despair and never touched the flying things again. Then, I figured out soloing and didnt give a fvck about others. Had fun. Always.

C) We meet opposition. 95% of our time we spend on respawn screen, waiting on the helipad and trying to "get there". 20 minutes doing nothing but dying and waiting. Marvellous fun.

I get it but I fail to see the correlation between the level of seriousness you're saying these folk have and having genuine fun, and should their desire to own all, conquer the world and everyone else in it directly impact the fun of others who don't care or at least understand that they are new to the game and will get killed quite a lot?

No. You dont get it. Dont pretend like you do. For the sake of fairness, drop this argument and go fly at least 50 hours in the chopper, as gunner and as a pilot, then come back. I find that when people are speaking out of their asses, its like arguing with a religious nut. Im a practical man, youre a theoretical man.

[Sloi sauce]

Pirelli, if ever you come back in this thread and read this:

Give pilots the ability to accept or deny entry in the helicopter! Nothing's worst than having a squad member ready to gun with me, only to be blocked by some random retard who comes in and messes everything up. Enemy Territory implemented a system like this, why can't you?

Remember, despite asking politely, these people usually don't bail out. Give us an "eject" button or the ability to screen the potential gunner for our attack heli.

[Stev0esque]

Ok... not to sound random, noobish and repetitive, but i reckon that people should give other people a chance as gunner. Ive given up on air vehicles because some selfish morons would run in frnt of my jet or other things involving unfairness with air vehicles.its a game based on teamwork, not counter strike with vehicles.

[Chris_Redfield]

Ok... not to sound random, noobish and repetitive, but i reckon that people should give other people a chance as gunner. Ive given up on air vehicles because some selfish morons would run in frnt of my jet or other things involving unfairness with air vehicles.its a game based on teamwork, not counter strike with vehicles.

Ive "trained" a large number of gunners myself. Sloi has created a solid guide and 3 very good videos. If I pick up my gunner and he doesnt know what to do, and completely screws up on his first attempt, Im either ditching the chopper or redlining them. If my gunner is younger than 18, he will be redlined.

Ive given far more to BF2 community, than I have taken, so I believe its a fair tradeoff.

Today, when I play so rarely, and log on for a few hours, I value my fun and my time. Want to be given a chance, then dont disappoint the pilot.

I have no intention nor am I looking forward to taxi you around just because it might be fun to you, while wrecking my enjoyment completely. Youre not going to be that selfish and exploit my patience to get yourself e-stroked.

[Sloi sauce]

Sloi has created a solid guide and 3 very good videos.

People tend to forget that about me.

They also forget that for my first 150 hours inside of a helicopter, I was almost exclusively a pilot. My time was spent giving people what they wanted and attempting to make them better.

Now it's me time, motherf*ckers. If you don't know what you're doing, don't f*ck with me. I'm a nice guy and all that jazz, but it does have limits.

[Guest]

Pirelli, if ever you come back in this thread and read this:

Give pilots the ability to accept or deny entry in the helicopter! Nothing's worst than having a squad member ready to gun with me, only to be blocked by some random retard who comes in and messes everything up. Enemy Territory implemented a system like this, why can't you?

Remember, despite asking politely, these people usually don't bail out. Give us an "eject" button or the ability to screen the potential gunner for our attack heli.

Perhaps you didnt notice my stance on this issue. :)
After all your efforts, I still don't think you should have the right to the chopper before anyone else in this game. I sure would hate to see all air assets limited to only elite pilots playing the game for 6-8 hours a day.

Perhaps you will be better off in clan wars where you are appointed certain tasks within the team.

[I am RKO]

Ah Pirellis words, like aloe vera, soothing the burns of being asked to bail. :)

[Sloi sauce]

Perhaps you didnt notice my stance on this issue. :)
After all your efforts, I still don't think you should have the right to the chopper before anyone else in this game. I sure would hate to see all air assets limited to only elite pilots playing the game for 6-8 hours a day.

Perhaps you will be better off in clan wars where you are appointed certain tasks within the team.

Ah, but I'm not asking for preferential treatment.

I'm asking that you include additional functionality in BF3 so that pilots have discretionary rights as to who co-pilots, just like Enemy Territory. Implementing this would make a lot of sense in the long run. Just a thought...

Ah Pirellis words, like aloe vera, soothing the burns of being asked to bail. :)

There are generally very good reasons for that. Leaving aside the question of skill, you can be asked to bail out for flag captures, letting squadmates fly together and allowing a competent soloer the chance of turning a bad situation around before it spirals out of control.

[DarQraven]

Listen people, what the hell are you guys even arguing about anymore?
The pro-"coaching" people here are the normal BF2 players, the people that oppose it openly in this thread are people who have spent more, probably much more than 62 FULL DAYS in a chopper and play chopper almost exclusively.

Not to be disrupting the discussion, but ... both of you are seeing each other as the wrong group. People like redfield, sloi, gunner, etc.. ARE NOT THE TYPICAL BF2 PILOT. While they openly admit they will bail on you if you get in their gunner seat, they are not the same people you encounter online that do the same thing.

All the same, people that are so bad that they don't have the slightest idea that machine guns don't work vs. armor are also not the people that are posting here. These are people reading a forum dedicated to this game, so they are bound to come across one of the many chopper guides here at least once, or at least like the game enough to be reading and posting threads like these.
--

To the top players here: I defended your point of view before already, so don't suddenly add me to your 'clueless noob' list after reading this and of course digging up my stats, but there are two sides to the coin.

I think there is a point where pub play ends. You've obviously already passed it. Seeing as you are at a skill level far beyond most when it comes to chopper flying, you can't really expect anyone to be up to par with you and label them as noob/not deserving of your attention when they aren't.
There's a reason private, passworded or even invitation servers exist.

I've always found the BF community a bit unrefined when it comes to this.
I'm a good UT player myself and have come to the point where I place first with a decent margin on most every pub DM/TDM match (assuming that it's not overcrowded, a spamfest or filled with other comp players of course).

Most of my playing is done versus opponents of my own skill level, and preferably a little above that, either found via IRC PUGs, private servers, scrimming, and friends list, etc.
When I do play pub, I play like I always do. Until I see people are not having fun anymore.
For instance (I don't know if you're familiar with the game) on certain DM maps there is a vehicle that spawns every now and again.
This vehicle is immensely powerful, and when used well can net you 20-kill sprees.
If circumstances are right, I can finish the match in just that vehicle in one go.
But I won't, and will certainly not deny teammates (in TDM) and others (in DM) access to it, for the following reasons.

1) Being at a skill level like this brings rewards, but in my opinion also brings responsibilities. One of those is to not wh0re techniques/weapons (that are acceptable in comp play) on servers where other 'normal' people play that have never even heard of comp play or said techniques, and most likely will not be able to do anything about them. And mind you, this is a deathmatch game, focused only on scoring kills. After all this is a PUB server, and that works both ways. Anyone is admitted, but everyone should adjust as well.

2) I want a challenge. As much as I enjoy the occasional complete wipe of a server full of beginners, it's no fun for very long. While you say that you like having fun in a chopper and fun equals kills, is it also not true that shooting down a chopper pilot that's leagues behind you isn't very much fun to begin with? Maybe this is different for every individual, but a kill without a challenge is not nearly as satisfying/fun to me as one that I really had to fight for.
Is it really that fun to go on chopper sprees when most people on the ground don't even *know* that they can use APC/humvee turrets against you?

In short:
I think pub servers are exactly that: public. Maybe a better term for them would be amateur servers. Pub servers are defined by the fact that both experienced players and beginners can play there. And that poses a problem.
Since my sports reference worked so well last time, I'll try again:

Federer, Nadal and the likes are VERY good. So when they do play, they play against other top players. On the occasion that they play exhibitions against 'normal' people (for fun, as an event, w/e) you won't see them go all out doing 250km/h serves and volleying every single ball the opponent throws at them.
Is this necessarily as much fun for them as playing another pro is? No, but that's what you get for training yourself out of the pub running, so to speak.

Being high skilled has advantages and disadvantages. Ignoring those disadvantages because other people are 'noobs' is egocentric.
YOU have access to the wimbledons and american open's of BF2, 95% of pub players don't.

[Chris_Redfield]

Perhaps you didnt notice my stance on this issue. :)
After all your efforts, I still don't think you should have the right to the chopper before anyone else in this game. I sure would hate to see all air assets limited to only elite pilots playing the game for 6-8 hours a day.

Perhaps you will be better off in clan wars where you are appointed certain tasks within the team.

Perhaps include an offline training course for the hardware in your next release? Kind of like a series of mini-Single Player campaigns with levels of difficulty. See "=ArmyDr="´s 4 helicopter guides for reference. Your games are not that easy and simple, and a well thought out and throughal course, complete with an assortment of obstacles and targets and VO "manual" aswell as written one would kick serious ***.

As the game grows and new tactics and techniques are discovered, you could implement the better ones (exploits excluded) into these training sessions. Think your standard SP introduction and Gran Turismo mandatory licensing system.


DarQ

BF2 is very different from UT. In BF2, if youre in the air, the targets are all anonymous blips. No matter how close friends you may be, the nature of the game pushes all your targets down the ladder into worthless red spots on the minimap. Air targets being an exception. If Im running a jet, the only target that is NOT an "anonymous blip", is another jet. Everything else is like little blueberries. I pick and I have a feast, no emotions attached. The only responsibility (this is me personally), is doing whatever I can, to win the game, or if Im in a squad with my buds, keep them safe.

[DarQraven]

This has little to nothing to do with whether UT and BF2 are different or not.
The example could even apply to chess, football, paintball, MMO's, hell ... pacman multiplayer probably even qualifies.

Whether you know the names of other people you're bombing or not is irrelevant. It's about sportsmanship and the reason why things like spawncamping uncaps or reviving someone in front of tank repeatedly are considered lame and often forbidden.

Sure, it's possible.
Sure, it's probably good for your points and personal enjoyment.
Sure, you probably trained a fair bit to be able to do it well.

But that doesn't mean that it's necessarily the time and place for it.
Like I said in my earlier post, I completely agree that people should learn the basics offline before they waste valuable chopper/jet spots. The same goes for tanks and other armor. Someone using a machine gun vs a jet is being stupid and shouldn't be playing gunner online.
It's those people that I think you have every right to tell to bail out or redline.

However, the stance you and some others have been taking on this issue about halfway through this thread is that anyone that isn't pro enough for you is supposed to GTFO and leave the 'real pilots' to do their thing.

Again, my reply is: Go play with someone your own level. Pubs are public servers, anyone can play on them, including people that are not as dedicated to/good at this game and never will be. Private passworded servers, clanmatches and invitation matches are where you(and ONLY you) can go and have high-level air combat.
While you shouldn't really hold back when facing them/playing with them, there are limits. I think those limits are obvious.
Denying them assets for your own enjoyment and making the game unplayable for them (spawnbombing for instance) are off limits IMO.

Like I said: being this skilled has advantages (such as deeper gameplay, nicer scores, more e-respect, access to higher-level play/private servers, etc) and downsides (responsibilites to other pub players to not be a complete jerk to them, being teamed up with lesser players, not always facing suffiecient opposition, having to explain things or get things done yourself, etc)

You can't have the positives without the negatives, at least not if you don't want to be a jerk to people. To be honest, I expected someone of your level to have learned this a long time ago.

--
A practical example to show that UT isn't at all different from BF2 in this aspect: The shock combo.
It's a very versatile attack, executed by shooting shock secondary cores with shock primary beams. One of the most damaging attacks in the game(against anyone with less than 100hp and 50 armor, it's an instant kill), both short and long range, large splash damage, and one that is VERY hard to pull off consistently and under pressure.

After years of playing, I can do them while standing still, while strafing, while in the air, while rocket/impact jumping, while walldodging, while walldodging backwards, I can do two simultaneously, do them with a translocation in between, etc.
Most people can only do them standing still (whether they actually hit me with it or not is again something else)
I also know the spawnpoints and spawnsystem on most stock DM maps.
Furthermore, I know the exact locations, access routes and spawn times of important items and powerups such as invisibility, 100 armor, 50 armor, 30s god mode and double fire rate and can time about 3 of them in my head simultaneously.
In short, against people that don't know these things or how to counter this, I am hell.

Does that mean that just because I can, I should join public servers and go on 30+ killing sprees without beginners ever finding a weapon?
I don't think so. Instead, I don't use the combo much unless I am about to be taken over score-wise or against people that can also do it. Also, I only ever time the items tightly when there's another player doing that. If not, I only pick up armor when I need it.

Is this as much fun for me as going all out, doing trickjumps+combos, hitting triple rockets in mid-air, making respawn kills and such? No. It's not. But the other way around would be absolutely sucky for the people that have bought this game and are looking to have a good time on PUBLIC servers ..the only servers they have access to.

Do I use all these skills in duels, 2v2 TDM and ladder matches? Hell yes. And I'd better, or I'll lose.

[Shask]

These posts are getting way too long.

[Sloi sauce]

You said it yourself... since we're almost at the top of the food chain, it's not exactly easy to find other players to compete with in normal settings.

I've done the TWL thing twice (and came out on top twice), the BF2combat league and played with clans, one of which for several months in the 3FL. I'm done with that kind of gameplay. Pubbing is about all I really find entertaining now... not because it's challenging, but because I get to fly without responsibilities. Then, the only variable becomes "how much fun am I having?"

I'm not having fun with tree huggers and national geographics photographers taking pictures of wildlife.