Only the default (TGN Light) theme for now. Dark them is also coming back soon. Then CSN. Then Wrestlin' Nation. A lot of WIP stuff right now. There are a couple of things still not working either. Sorry.
Well HC is what I play. And the weapon balance isn't out. It's pretty accurate actually. I don't see why you say it goes out the window.All it does is highlight the drawbacks of a shotgun.
Weapon balance is out of the window, please dont argue. You do not have the refined SMG/AR role strenghts and weaknesses as they are pretty much the same stuff, with different wall penetration. Hell, in HC, I load up my USP, fill in the G3 macro and I own as if I had a Glock 18! Gangsta!
We're talking about the effect of a boost to the stats of a shotgun, are we not? Irrespective of the game type or style, HC or SC, the shotgun could do with a boost
Theres a HUGE difference whether were talking of HC or SC. Id start outlining the differences but thats irrelevant, common sense and would increase the wasted interweb space.
You hardly miss. Congratulations. Neither do I. However I find the weapon can't cycle fast enough to hit you and the guy with the AR next to you.
In HC, its easy mode. Spread is good enough to hit and kill you and the guy with an AR next to you. In SC, its all about positioning, changing positions and defensive movement. Provided I have practiced flick aiming and my hand is "warmed up", I can flick aim your head and his head and my only limitation would be the ROF of the weapon Im using. Using M3Super90, its not an issue. as a matter of fact, beefing up the range and ROF would make this weapon a rail cannon of heavenly retribution in my hands. 1 shot kills halfway across the map using a shotgun? Yes please. This will pretty much kill ARs and sniper rifles. Everyone would be running with either shotty.
The only change that wouldnt break the in game balance, would be to keep the damage of pellets at longer range (while decreasing their damage to miniscule numbers)
So you've got the shotgun YOU want, so we must all be happy and not express our own opinion? I just want game makers to stop screwing over the shotgun so seriously.
You want an IR shotgun, I want a weapon that fits the balance equation. For the record, Im not exactly happy with the shotguns, but I see their place in the equation. You dont.
And how many pistols can carry an ACOG?
Dont need an ACOQ to hit you halfway across the map.
Yes. It takes multiple handgun rounds to kill someone. That's believable.
Sorry? If I hit you in the head with a 9X19, will you regen?
What's NOT believable is 9 .38 rounds vanishing into thin air at 12 meters.
Gameplay balance. Boomstick means "godlike at close" and "puny at range".
Each time you pull the trigger on a shotgun you are basically launching half an M9 magazine at the badguys in one shot. How can it fail to kill at the same ranges an M9 can? Multiple pistol shots to the head? Stop playing Softcore.
You should really stop with these IRL references. COD4 takes visuals from RL, functionality is based on a balanced equation.
Why exclude HC? The shotgun doesn't benifit fromt he same boost the other weapons get.
But surely it does. Its a lot more forgiving. In SC, you need to hit the target chest on or head on, in HC, I can pretty much hit with only 30% of the pellets.
I don't think I've ever seen two people die from a single shotgun hit.
I dont think Ive got a screenshot, but HQ gamemode in SC Bloc meant a lot of
Foxhound|RED [shotgun] noobs x 2
Why exclude SMG's ? The shotgun and the SMG are meant to fill the same nieche. CQB.
IRL again... In COD4, its close, mid and long. ARs are universal, SMGs are great at close to mid and shotguns are excellent at close. Snipers are good only at long. Imagine a graph
ALL the other games have the same BS with shotguns. They spread like a 'mofo, they can't shoot at range, the moron pumping the gun doesn't know how to do it properly, and they loose too much power over distance.
Accepted position for shotguns. Since the engagement ranges in games are usually close, if we took shotties 1:1 from RL, theyd be godlike, rail cannons of Quake universe.
I'm not saying make them super duper weapons. I'm saying get them right.
AKA, make them super duper, which is what they are if made "right".
Like Rodger and Sloi say, the shotgun should be able to work a little better than it does. I'm not saying I want an IRL shotgun, I'm saying the balance should be tilted a little more in the SG's favour.
They are different play styles, please learn to accept that one game type is not "elite" - I'm getting sick of all the HC/SC bashing.
Where the hell do you see HC bashing? Please point me to the quote. Im getting sick of kids thinking that just because I mention something, automatically has negative emotions attached to it.
If you took my disagreement that HC = realism mod, then suck it up.
I didn't browse through the thread, so at the risk of repeating something that's already been addressed...
Can somebody explain why there is opposition to an increase in effective range along with an inversely proportional decrease in damage? It seems like people disagree with this but don't offer any explanation why.
It sounds like a pretty reasonable suggestion for a future patch.
I didn't browse through the thread, so at the risk of repeating something that's already been addressed...
Can somebody explain why there is opposition to an increase in effective range along with an inversely proportional decrease in damage? It seems like people disagree with this but don't offer any explanation why.
It sounds like a pretty reasonable suggestion for a future patch.
Acceptable change- make it so that the pellets dont "disappear" into thin air, but fly longer, while inflicting very little damage (5 HP)
Not acceptable change- make it so that shotguns had a much smaller spread and inflicted damage over longer range, also increasing their ROF.
Why do I think so?
Two reasons,
- to not to make shotguns rail cannons which can be used better than SMGs at all SMG ranges.
- to not to overpower shotguns
You think people are crying bad with grenade launchers? Wait until you see "shotgun noob" messages :laugh:
In HC, its easy mode. Spread is good enough to hit and kill you and the guy with an AR next to you. In SC, its all about positioning, changing positions and defensive movement.
In HC, its easy mode. Spread is good enough to hit and kill you and the guy with an AR next to you. In SC, its all about positioning, changing positions and defensive movement.
That maybe? You take such offense.
The subject was shotguns, in HC, shotguns also perform considerably better. Now, go and try to find where I actually did say something bad about HC.
If you increase the shotgun range you need to decrease the power because if you dont the servers will be flooded with bunny hopping shotgun whores
Originally posted by Redfield
Acceptable change- make it so that the pellets dont "disappear" into thin air, but fly longer, while inflicting very little damage (5 HP)
That's precisely what I proposed. Increased range with progressively decreasing damage...
Every other gun does this; why are shotguns different? Increase the maximum range from 500 to 800 or so and create a minimum damage of, say... 10x10 with an increased spread instead of 40x10.
Acceptable change- make it so that the pellets dont "disappear" into thin air, but fly longer, while inflicting very little damage (5 HP)
after about 8 feet away there should be a steep damage drop off and the spread should start thinning out. they key is that the weapon is not effective in medium range, but highly effective at close quarters.
Originally posted by Chris_Redfield
Not acceptable change- make it so that shotguns had a much smaller spread and inflicted damage over longer range, also increasing their ROF.
did anyone propose this? i sure didn't!
Originally posted by Chris_Redfield
- to not to make shotguns rail cannons which can be used better than SMGs at all SMG ranges.
the smg is effective at rifle ranges, all i am asking is that shotguns be effective in cqc, without avoiding engagement after 10 feet away.
Originally posted by Chris_Redfield
You think people are crying bad with grenade launchers? Wait until you see "shotgun noob" messages :laugh:
the grenade launcher is a tactical weapon, its good for taking out campers behind cover. it only takes an instant to die from gunfire in hardcore, so really, using the tube as a primary will most of the time lead to failure. people who whine about play style and weapon usage do not understand tactical gaming and will always whine. that being said, nothing i have suggested would change the shotgun into a hated weapon, it still would not have medium range. you would still be able to easily dispatch shot gunners very quickly. the difference is that the shotgunner would have a fair chance and not be against the odds.
...I'd be more happy :) A shotgun in a game is supposed to be extremely powerful in CQC, but it shouldn't be handicapped at over 10 meters. Even though you don't do much damage you should at least be able to hit something.
With risk of being a fanboy here, BF2142's Clark got it perfectly right. Extremely powerful in CQC and not-too-bad at up to 15 meters.
Could you guys please stop the ego bashing as well? Thanks.
I'm almost inclined to come in here and ask Chris to just stop posting in this thread. I mean it has turned a poll (biased one at that) into should we change the shotgun/lets just sit here and insult each other.
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