Making martyrdom a little more fairer.

[Chris_Redfield]

Don't get me wrong, grenades in this game are unique unlike in other games, I know the power of them as I use them all the time, but there seems to be that "X" factor with them. Something is not quite right with them, and I don't know what. You can instantly get killed by one, just by looking at it, literally. Maybe thats why they had to include the "grenade indicator" for multiplayer?

I would go as far as saying that grenades in COD4 have proven to serve their most appropriate function, I havent seen a game pull this off a long time. Last game I saw that did this as perfectly, was SWAT4. They are extremely powerful and effective, which is why they ammount to a far greater percentage of kills, even though the weapons in COD4 are useful and effective aswell. Hence the whole use of grenades is modified by the carelessness of the target in all its maneuvers and choices, and skill of the user, in all of his predictions. The way grenades in COD4 are used, generally fall into 2 categories:

-Pixel throws (both start round throws, and pre-emptive throws)
-Flush throws (against defensive targets)

They work 100% the way they are designed, and their effectiveness is magnificently counterbalanced by the simple fact that... you only get an X ammount of them per spawn.

So, no, I dont think theres an "X" factor somewhere. Pixel throws can easily be avoided as the grenades arent really hitting spawns per se, but the routes to and off the spawns, and thats not a problem of the game makers anymore. Most maps provide alternative routes off and to the spawn anyway.

Also, from your S&D experience, you will know they can make certain maps balanced maps greatly favor offense or defense. Obviously any game has unbalanced maps, but to be able to eliminate usually one to even three people with a single grenade within ten seconds of a round, thats a first. S&D Rounds are usually won solely on how many people are eliminated with grenades.

Not the fault of the game, but the fault of the victim. Youre not killed at spawn, youre killed while youre en-route to the location. Perfectly fine use of nades.

Maybe a question to ask is why people use martyrdom in the first place?

50 player Vacant servers, or 50 player Sh!tment servers. Thats why.

[dynamiK]

Or you just listen for them to drop a nade when they get shot, if they do, take cover. It isn't that tough.

[Salad Snake]

That is the way modern warfare works. Listen, there were plenty of Iraqi tankers wanting to get it on with the US tank forces. They were lined up and ready to battle it out honorably (presumption) with the US tanks.

Then, our aircraft swept in and obliterated them. Not fair. I'm pretty sure that they called "shenanigans" and "hax" on us for that.

You guys want a level playing field AND realism at the same time. Why? Warfare by it's very nature is asymetric. When both sides are equal or nearly equal in power, there normally is not a state of active warfare, but detente.

I still argue that folks don't like Martyrdom because it affects their ego. Those numbers on the scoreboard don't represent you, they are simply snapshots of the group experience. Once you can say, "It's just part of the game, let's move on." you will be free from its annoyance.

:nod:

Not many people understand that realism does not equal, well, equality.

:salute: for being one of the few that do.



Anyway, what you guys were saying about "flow", and how martyrdom disrupts it for the winner of the firefight.

Don't you think that's the point?

When you get into a firefight and lose, the "flow" of the battle is going against your team now. With that last grenade, that last attack, you get one more chance to turn the tide back to neutral. To disrupt the "Clear & Advance" style of play is exactly the point of martyrdom

Whether that is "cheap" or not to you is your prerogative.

As I have said before, the only thing I would change is to make the fuse a bit longer, just enough to make the (admittedly extra-powerful) grenade throwable. That would make things more interesting strategically, since someone willing to take a chance could throw the grenade and reverse that attack, putting the tide even more in their favor.

[Kodakk]

if marty makes tactical playstyles ineffective, how exactly should CoD4 be played?

[Salad Snake]

if marty makes tactical playstyles ineffective, how exactly should CoD4 be played?

It doesn't.

It simply prevents pushing forward after a firefight for a second. Slows down rushes, gives an HQ/flag another second of defense, blocks off a passageway for a moment....it pretty much forces a lull in an advance, but not for too long, not even enough time to fully reload......

Rushing is just one of many playstyles. It does not effect sniping, is not as effective on slow, sweeping tactics, and does not prevent flanking of a position from two or more sides (though it does guarantee that one group will get there a little late).

It's also too slow to effect full on kamikaze rushers. :p

[Chris_Redfield]

To disrupt the "Clear & Advance" style of play is exactly the point of martyrdom

A very good point.

[Kodakk]

Well, for a positive outlook at martyrdom:

It's great when you snipe an enemy who has martyrdom and his grenade teamkills a few of hims teammates :)

[alpha1.1]

I agree with the OP's idea, I also think the blast radius indicator should be wider (not the blast itself). The very edge of the idicator = death 9 times out of 10.

I can normally deal with marty when I've made the kill, it's when some else makes it and I accidentally dangle a toe into the edge of the explosion:shakehead

[Shellshock_1918]

I wish everyone would stop bitching about martyrdom, its not like you can't use it yourself.

If you can't handle it, get another game.

[Kodakk]

^^ Don't become a game developer. There's a reason for why people discuss things - whether you agree with a change or not, I hope you understand that there's a point in discussion.

[alpha1.1]

I wish everyone would stop bitching about martyrdom, its not like you can't use it yourself.

If you can't handle it, get another game.

Martyrdom needs tweaking for gameplay reasons not because it's overpowered

Any half decent player will use a more valuable perk

No game is perfect - Developers look to the community for feedback. That's what patches are for. This thread has constructive ideas. Your post fails

[Keyelite]

To disrupt the "Clear & Advance" style of play is exactly the point of martyrdom

Great point

I agree with the OP's idea, I also think the blast radius indicator should be wider (not the blast itself). The very edge of the idicator = death 9 times out of 10.

I can normally deal with marty when I've made the kill, it's when some else makes it and I accidentally dangle a toe into the edge of the explosion:shakehead

Exactly,
I was thinking about that when it was first brought up, it would work-- but still, I'm not sure. The main reason why many die from that martyrdom grenade is literally a split second of reaction time off (You just see the nade icon, you try to turn the other way but you can't, or you run out of sprint or get blocked in a nade icon). But if it would be a change, it would be a SLIGHT change to give your split second reaction time more of a chance.

I wish everyone would stop bitching about martyrdom, its not like you can't use it yourself.

If you can't handle it, get another game.

Notice how no one is "bitching" but trying to analyze and work for a solution, regardless if it will actually be implemented or not. The other two posts say it perfectly

[Shellshock_1918]

^^ Don't become a game developer. There's a reason for why people discuss things - whether you agree with a change or not, I hope you understand that there's a point in discussion.

You can't change it, nothing you can do about it, its part of the gameplay, be happy with what you got.

[imported_Whiskey]

You can't change it, nothing you can do about it, its part of the gameplay, be happy with what you got.

Completely untrue. Game developers adjust and change features via patches all the time based on user feedback.

[Lt Davis]

Completely untrue. Game developers adjust and change features via patches all the time based on user feedback.

Although, as pointed out before, changes like that have ruined games before. Just reminding everyone.