Making martyrdom a little more fairer.

[imported_Whiskey]

Honestly, if I could adjust the parameters of Martyrdom, I would.

And I think that's exactly what the majority of (reasonable) people are asking for - some sort of adjustment. Why others have to take an all-or-nothing approach (ie. "Don't touch anything! Ever!" vs "Remove it completely!") is beyond me.

Spik3d made a good point too, that sometimes one only encounters a problem depending on the server size/map and one's style of play...people that mostly sit back and snipe from long-range, or those who play on low-population servers, for example, may never notice it being an issue. But people who like to move around more and engage in CQB will experience it more often.

I sometimes wonder how many of those who post on various forums that they have no problem with it, are actually players who use it a lot and don't want it adjusted because it will bring them fewer kills.

[Kodakk]

I'd be a bit more lenient towards it if it had a longer fuse...

However, I can see that leading to problems where people run into a marty nade that they had no idea about.

[Chris_Redfield]

Infantry player

Goes into a BF2 server that says- "Dogfight Madness!"

*Obviously a modded server with lots of jets*

Infantry player gets raped by dozens of jets

Infantry player goes to server and starts a complaining thread


Example 2.

Too much oxygen is bad for your health, true fact.

Example 3.

Guy who likes CQB goes into a 50 player Vacant only server... populated with a tonload of newbies with Martydom. (Literally, expecing not to get wet in a storm)

I hope you get the picture.

Theres nothing wrong with martydom. The only issue that Ive noticed, that needs to be fixed, is that if theres an obstacle between the martydom grenade and you, the grenade icon will not show, thus getting you killed.

[Keyelite]

Those are pretty extreme examples. I don't mind getting killed by martyrdom once and a while, but the sheer volume of it gets a bit ridiculous to the point where you CAN'T typically do a play style you enjoy. This is a pub game, correct? Someone mentioned they have the freedom to do what they want in a game. Well I want the freedom to play the game the way I feel without having to adapt all the time to martyrdom.

Theres nothing wrong with martydom. The only issue that Ive noticed, that needs to be fixed, is that if theres an obstacle between the martydom grenade and you, the grenade icon will not show, thus getting you killed.

Well, that means that there is something wrong with martyrdom. It's the grenade system itself that may be the problem. However, it's too late in the game to be changing something as core as the grenades. Thats why even if they just drop one unused grenade in the players kit, it would cut down on more of the spam from grenades, which is really the main problem here.

[solofowaffles]

Im just tired of people jumping right at me so they can drop their marty grenade by me and a buddy.

[imported_Whiskey]

[Example 1...snip]

Example 2...[snip]

Example 3...[snip]

I hope you get the picture.

I understand the point you're trying to make of "too much of anything isn't good", but I don't agree with your examples.

In example 1, it's a modded server - not the natural state of things. This type of server doesn't appeal to the majority of players. A reasonable player will realize this and just understand that server isn't for them, instead of making complaining posts. We will always have people whining about everything that doesn't go their way, but by sheer numbers and reasonable explanations given in threads like these, I believe Martyrdom falls into a category of a legitimate complaint. We don't see the number of complaints with anything else.

Example 2 has nothing to do with gaming, so we'll skip it.

Example 3 is actually perfect at demonstrating why Martyrdom could use a change. That CQB player should be able to enjoy his game and do fairly well, even with a lot of people around in a fairly closed space. So should others. Martyrdom in its current state makes that very difficult due to the length of the fuse, radius of the blast, and proximity of other players. The example is not a modded server, but shows how things can go out of whack because of the effects of this perk...and you don't need anywhere near 50 players to see its negative effects on a map like this one.

If Martyrdom were adjusted somewhat, CQB battles like this could still be carried out, without the annoyance/frustration factor:

a) if you needed a nade in your inventory to activate the perk, it would cut down on the number of Martyrdom nades going off due to them being thrown away earlier, and it would also reduce thrown-nade spam for players wanting to keep their Martyrdom nade available for when they die. Overall effect is less nade spam.

b) if the fuse were a regular one, players could still confidently engage an enemy close in, and still have a good chance of throwing the Martyrdom nade away, instead of dying or having to expose themselves to enemy fire by running away like a maniac

c) if the fuse was still short and the blast was still as powerful, but confined to a smaller radius, it would effectively deal with the teabagging issue, but not penalize a player who just made a CQB kill, but wanted to linger in the area with no intent to teabag (ie. not giving away his position by running away like hell, or choosing to let the nade go off and then advance cautiously).

Adjustments such as these aren't major, and would open up more styles of play. Basically the only ones to be penalized would be those who use Martyrdom more or less "on purpose" for suicide runs. I think it would benefit the majority of players, and causes no harm to players who currently don't think it is an issue.

..

I don't mind getting killed by martyrdom once and a while, but the sheer volume of it gets a bit ridiculous to the point where you CAN'T typically do a play style you enjoy.

I agree with this. Part of the core aspect of FPS games is to move, shoot, and advance (unless you're a sniper or holding a position). The effects of Martyrdom often prevent that advance and instead force a retreat (or death) even if you successfully deal with your opponent.

[System]

i voted less but I would just like to see martydom be deleted and forgotten about one day...

[Chris_Redfield]

I understand the point you're trying to make of "too much of anything isn't good", but I don't agree with your examples.

Then you didnt quite understand them all. The main point of my examples is, if you alter the natural environment into something which was not intended to be, youre screwed. Pure oxygen in Apollo missions damaged astronauts lungs. Modded servers with more players kill infantry enjoyment. Someone who goes into a 50 player Vacant server, looking for enjoyable CQB, is an idiot.

In example 1, it's a modded server - not the natural state of things.

50 player Vacant is not the natural state of COD4. As isnt 50 player Sh!tment.

A reasonable player will realize this and just understand that server isn't for them, instead of making complaining posts.

Expect the worst of people. This thread is the ultimate proof of it. Martydom fuse timing is about 1 second (correct me if Im wrong, its either 1 or 2), which is more than enough to get to minimum safe distance. The problem with Martydom (and this is my own speculation), is that I think it has Sonic Boost enabled by default. (increased lethal range)

but by sheer numbers and reasonable explanations given in threads like these, I believe Martyrdom falls into a category of a legitimate complaint.

And those who are actually complaining, are playing TDM or FFA in 30+ player servers. I dont know, but I kind of have a feeling that COD4 maps werent exactly designed for such sheer numbers.

We don't see the number of complaints with anything else.

Because the game is perfect. And since its perfect, people are digging on all sorts of issues. I mean, here we are, discussing Martydom, that actually (believe it or not, its a shocker, I know) "rewards" you for your stupidty. And we still have bugs like 1.75X sprint time for P90...

Example 2 has nothing to do with gaming, so we'll skip it.

Example 3 is actually perfect at demonstrating why Martyrdom could use a change. That CQB player should be able to enjoy his game and do fairly well, even with a lot of people around in a fairly closed space. So should others. Martyrdom in its current state makes that very difficult due to the length of the fuse, radius of the blast, and proximity of other players. The example is not a modded server, but shows how things can go out of whack because of the effects of this perk...and you don't need anywhere near 50 players to see its negative effects on a map like this one.

Thanks for proving my point.

"I dont want to adapt, let the game adapt for me"

Youre trying to tell me, that while we have Martydom working exactly like its supposed to be working, and actually has results in its working, you want to change it into a gimmick that wouldnt kill anyone, and would just illustrate a noobs death by a "boom"? How come you cant enjoy CQB with Martydom? Do you enjoy staying around your adversaries dead body? The perk does not od anything more than its designes to do. Meaning, someone dies, drops an explosive, and it kills everyone within its immediate radius. The solution itsself is extremely simple. Dont be in its immediate radius and youll be fine. As a matter of fact, the solution is so obvious, and requires so little from the victims part, that I have absolutely no clue where this complaining comes from, but from players who play in the extremes- hence the example of 50 player Vacant server.

I went into one, and got killed more by Martydom grenades, than Ive been killed in 2 months playing S&D. Would get anyone b!tch and moan. Funny thing is. I went on a shotgun rampage of 43:8, and the rest of the crowd barely touched the 1:1 KDR barrier. The specific situations where I got killed by Martydom-

- I got stuck into the doorway
- Grenade was dropped and I ran into it from distance that didnt show grenade warning
- Grenade was dropped and I walked into it from behind an obstacle
- Grenade was dropped and I genuinely panicked

If Martyrdom were adjusted somewhat, CQB battles like this could still be carried out, without the annoyance/frustration factor:

Erm, so you want martydom to be an unused gimmick, kind of like the VOIP one?

a) if you needed a nade in your inventory to activate the perk, it would cut down on the number of Martyrdom nades going off due to them being thrown away earlier, and it would also reduce thrown-nade spam for players wanting to keep their Martyrdom nade available for when they die. Overall effect is less nade spam.

It wouldnt reduce grenade spam, at all. I dont count Martydom into the "nade spam" category, and this would do little against the 3X nade perk. Furthermore, th eincentive to actually pick Martydom after this change, would be too small, as theres no benefits from Martydom anymore and other 3rd tier perks will be more useful. Effectively making it into a gimmick.

b) if the fuse were a regular one, players could still confidently engage an enemy close in, and still have a good chance of throwing the Martyrdom nade away, instead of dying or having to expose themselves to enemy fire by running away like a maniac

5 second fuse? Right. First of all, this wouldnt change a thing in 50 player Vacant servers where everyone is rushing as if they were on E-overdose. Secondly, youre not supposed to be throwing Martydom grenade away as its an anti-teabagging tool! Youre effectively breaking its nr.1 purpose!

c) if the fuse was still short and the blast was still as powerful, but confined to a smaller radius, it would effectively deal with the teabagging issue, but not penalize a player who just made a CQB kill, but wanted to linger in the area with no intent to teabag (ie. not giving away his position by running away like hell, or choosing to let the nade go off and then advance cautiously).

Adjusting the damage radius or damage power would be the only reasonable change in order to keep the retarded "50 player Vacant" server bunnies happy without breaking the perk into an unused gimmick which just looks pretty. Even then, the damage should be strong enough to punish anyone close enough.

Adjustments such as these aren't major, and would open up more styles of play.

Wrong. Only your 3rd adjustment would not turn the perk into as useful as Eavesdrop. And by "open up more styles of play" you surely mean "more freedom to run around" because thats exactly what those changes would do. The game would not turn into a more tactical shooter. If you engage someone point blank, chances are your tactical superiority is already challenged.

Basically the only ones to be penalized would be those who use Martyrdom more or less "on purpose" for suicide runs.

I have yet to see people run as suicidal monkeys with the sole purpose of blowing crap up with Martydom...

Oh wait... 50 player Vacant servers? 50 player Shipment servers? Those are abominations of COD4.

"Tell me how do you play your game, and I can tell a lot about you."

I think it would benefit the majority of players, and causes no harm to players who currently don't think it is an issue.

Excpt the majority (per se) players are rushing, mindless, stupid e-lemmings, and yes, those changes would definitely benefit the kind.

I agree with this. Part of the core aspect of FPS games is to move, shoot, and advance (unless you're a sniper or holding a position). The effects of Martyrdom often prevent that advance and instead force a retreat (or death) even if you successfully deal with your opponent.

Hence why you all get raped in more tactical games, where the "core aspect" is gaining tactical and strategical superiority and maintaining it. Core aspect of an online FPS game is competitiveness between human beings. Core aspect of FPS is hand-eye-brain coordination and fun.

[Babymax]

Yesterday, I was shot through a wall. I tried approaching differently but got killed again. I realized the other player was just spraying whenever his team's UAV was activated.

Nerf, please. It is ruining my enjoyment of the game. Please make people run slower too. I don't enjoy the game when people keep dodging my bullets.

[L3adcannon]

Yesterday, I was shot through a wall. I tried approaching differently but got killed again. I realized the other player was just spraying whenever his team's UAV was activated.

Nerf, please. It is ruining my enjoyment of the game. Please make people run slower too. I don't enjoy the game when people keep dodging my bullets.

Aye, I am for this proposal.

[Sloi sauce]

Yesterday, I was shot through a wall. I tried approaching differently but got killed again. I realized the other player was just spraying whenever his team's UAV was activated.

Nerf, please. It is ruining my enjoyment of the game. Please make people run slower too. I don't enjoy the game when people keep dodging my bullets.

That has to be trolling/sarcasm. If it isn't, well...

- Red Orchestra has a momentum system that makes players pick up speed and slow down when changing directions to simulate the way we'd react in a real world situation. You might like it...

- UAV/Spraying is just another strategy that some people use. It's legitimate, and there are ways of combating it, Jammer being one of them.

[The_Eliminator]

i voted less but I would just like to see martydom be deleted and forgotten about one day...

Im not usually pro getting rid of gaming content, in fact im all for the developers putting in as much structure and material as possible.

But i have to agree with the statement i quoted above.

[Babymax]

- UAV/Spraying is just another strategy that some people use. It's legitimate, and there are ways of combating it, Jammer being one of them.

"Ways of combating it"

Yes, I agree. Strangely enough, that perspective can be used for pretty much anything in this game. Why do people run over corpses again? Someone remind what they are looking for. Cash in the dead guy's wallet, maybe?

[Keyelite]

"Ways of combating it"

Yes, I agree. Strangely enough, that perspective can be used for pretty much anything in this game. Why do people run over corpses again? Someone remind what they are looking for. Cash in the dead guy's wallet, maybe?

To get to the other side of the hallway? Usually dead bodies block the street you are trying to advance through. And don't tell me to take a 50 feet detour around the body so everyone can shoot me in the open.
Are you guy's still set on it being an anti-Tbag issue? The only time I EVER see t-bagging in this game is either in S&D and the enemy just won, or.. well.. thats it. No one cares.

View Post
Yesterday, I was shot through a wall. I tried approaching differently but got killed again. I realized the other player was just spraying whenever his team's UAV was activated.

Nerf, please. It is ruining my enjoyment of the game. Please make people run slower too. I don't enjoy the game when people keep dodging my bullets.

Hey, at least THEY are controlling their actions and movements, not a computer randomly dropping a grenade.

[sava700]

game is fine the way it is.. sounds to me like you have some kids wanting to change stuff they get owned by in game.

Time to lock the thread cause unless someone gives me money back for a game I purchased with what I'm playing with now then I refuse to ever again buy another IW game if they screw with what is fine to begin with.

Lock please..