Martyrdom .... wouldn't it be nice if....

[m_d]

Martyrdom would be excellent if it didn't exist.

[imported_Infiltrator]

I didnt say you its a general statement pointed toward many. Perhaps you too, but thats for you to decide.

But as for you, you dont have to use it. Better yet, use it to get revenge for all the people that do it to you. You might find you like it.

There was someone in another post crying about the P90 and the "spraying" it did. For revenge he ran around spraying everyone with it, ended up relizing that maybe its not so bad. He mentioned that it wasnt the high kills he got, but the fact he still died the same amount with the MIGHTY P90.

I think once others see that martyrdom is not a 100% kill fest, it wont be such a big thing.

I dont use it, but I have and thought it was fun. Its not a big deal.

Crunch

I'm not going to use it, because the more proficient you are with aiming, or the more you are aware of your surroundings and enemy positions, the less you need martyrdom.

Why would I use the skill that only benefits me when I die? That goes against my book to be honest, I'd rather have something that will keep me alive.

Martyrdom is not a 100% kill fest. I doubt anyone thinks it is. It's just a cheap skill that nets people who are noobs kills because it requires zero skill to use.

[sfcthebam]

I thought the reasons would be clear but I'm obviously wrong; here let me spell it out for you: Steady Aim, Stopping Power still require you to aim correctly in order to use them. Martyrdom just requires you to die. Unlike Last stand where you actually need to do an effort and kill your opponents after you've been hit, your hands are basically free, you die and let the perk do everything else for you, and since dying is what noobs generally do, this is a dream come true when it comes to perks.

Nail on the head my friend :salute:

I have a real up close and personal kit (mp5 - silencer-UAV Jammer), close enough to knife a lot of the time and get real tight amongst the oppsoing team. Now, after I have succesfully broke away from my team, infiltrated the enemy.. it does frustrate the hell out of me to either get stuck in a tight spot or break cover, cos of 'no skill' matryrdom perk.

I mean most of the perks are offset and evenlly balanced, for instance although my sneaky kit, doesnt allow me to be seen on the minimap, I need to get real close to do the damage.

Martyrdom... all you have to do is die

[CtrlAltDe1337]

If you can't beat martyrdom, then you don't need to be playing this game. True, sometimes you get stuck in a corner and can't get away, but most of the time all you have to do is wait a few seconds before walking over the corpse. Considering martyrdom uses one of your perks (which you could be using to stay alive), I don't use it except on FFAs as I would rather use something like deep impact or steady aim.

That being said, it would be nice to either a) be able to throw nades back faster, or b) give nades a .5 second longer fuse. Otherwise its fine.

[Malcolm]

Let me just say that person who created that perk should be fired.And no i'am not saying this because i cant beat martyrdom it is because martyrdom kills mote team mates then the enemy.And like sfcthebam said Martyrdom all you have to do is die.

[I_Die]

are the airstrike deaths more manly?

Martyrdom has its own little category for kills and rewards its not leaving.

When you die from random airstrikes and the helicopter while behind a concrete wall do you feel better than after a grenade from a guy you just killed in cqb?

Tell you what give me a way to spawn without 4 enemy snipers aiming at me and I'll agree to get rid of martyrdom, at least with it you cant stand in the exact same spot and get free kills

[FPS[SONIC]]

I thought the reasons would be clear but I'm obviously wrong; here let me spell it out for you: Steady Aim, Stopping Power still require you to aim correctly in order to use them. Martyrdom just requires you to die. Unlike Last stand where you actually need to do an effort and kill your opponents after you've been hit, your hands are basically free, you die and let the perk do everything else for you, and since dying is what noobs generally do, this is a dream come true when it comes to perks.

I agree and disagree.

I do agree that Martyrdom requires little skill to use. Although, some maps (Shipment, Vacant, Wetworks) are good maps to use this perk. It's especially appropriate on Shipment.

I disagree with the statement that Steady Aim and Stopping Power are somehow in a different class. They simply modify the calculations done to bullet trajectory and damage -- giving the user an advantage over the non-user. Steady Aim provides unearned headshots all the time.

All perks are modifiers, if you will: legal hax.

Just because some folks seem to have trouble avoiding martyrdom nades does not provide reason for them to be removed from the game. Adapt to overcome. It works better than crying like the immature do.

Also, every argument I've heard is that it awards un-deserved kills to the user of Martyrdom. Duh, the kills are earned because they killed you! They had the foresight to use a weakness against you. The game isn't about how many kills you made anyways. It's about playing a game with friends and strangers while having a good time and trying to win one for the team.

It's not an individual effort unless you're playing Free For All.

[Flamesfan_21]

Its pretty commonly used, I've gotten in the habit of dropping back every time i kill someone, even if their not using it, just as a precaution.

I cant bring myself to use it over steady aim or deep impact, I hear the complaints, but I just play for fun, when the fun stops, i switch it off.

[m_d]

I do agree that Martyrdom requires little skill to use.

No skill to be more precise.

I disagree with the statement that Steady Aim and Stopping Power are somehow in a different class. They simply modify the calculations done to bullet trajectory and damage -- giving the user an advantage over the non-user. Steady Aim provides unearned headshots all the time.

Like other people said, for Steady Aim and Stopping Power to be effective you still have to hit the enemy. It rewards good aiming.
Martyrdom rewards dying and luck and that's just poor game design, no matter how you look at it.

Steady Aim certainly doesn't provide unearned headshots. Without it you can get headshots by aiming at the chest (because of the bigger bullet spread). That is unearned.

Just because some folks seem to have trouble avoiding martyrdom nades does not provide reason for them to be removed from the game. Adapt to overcome. It works better than crying like the immature do.

Using that kind of argumentation, the developers could remove all weapons except for grenades and then say "get used to it", which I think is more immature than trying to improve something.
You can adapt to anything, but the point is you shouldn't have to.

They had the foresight to use a weakness against you.

Anyone who bases their gameplay on luck (a chance that someone runs into your grenade is not foresight...) is a n00b. And please note the difference between noob and n00b.

The best solution would be to either disable Martyrdom when you're out of grenades, or my personal favorite, remove it.

I have to add that I don't even dislike it for the sole reason that it requires no skill to use. I accept nade launchers and grenades, and there's very little skill in using those.
I simply dislike the idea of not being able to advance after I kill someone or being forced to run out of cover.

[imported_youm0nt]

please god no......

.....

[=)BiT(=AutoFodder]

Sonic is right on the money.

I personally don't like it, I don't use it and I don't think I'll ever care to; but if someone wants to waste a perk slot on something that's going to allow me to kill them far more easily than if they were equiped with steady aim or deep impact then that's fine with me.

Sure there's the occasional moment when I curse the damned perk, but I've done that with juggernaut, deep impact, UAV jammer etc. etc.

Since every noob seems to be using it, why do you keep falling into the trap? Maybe that's a question you ought to ask yourselves.

If you really must have the thing removed, rent a server and mod it as such (it's very easy really).

[FPS[SONIC]]

No skill to be more precise.

Like other people said, for Steady Aim and Stopping Power to be effective you still have to hit the enemy. It rewards good aiming.
Martyrdom rewards dying and luck and that's just poor game design, no matter how you look at it.

Steady Aim certainly doesn't provide unearned headshots. Without it you can get headshots by aiming at the chest (because of the bigger bullet spread). That is unearned.

Using that kind of argumentation, the developers could remove all weapons except for grenades and then say "get used to it", which I think is more immature than trying to improve something.
You can adapt to anything, but the point is you shouldn't have to.

Anyone who bases their gameplay on luck (a chance that someone runs into your grenade is not foresight...) is a n00b. And please note the difference between noob and n00b.

The best solution would be to either disable Martyrdom when you're out of grenades, or my personal favorite, remove it.

I see that we completely disagree.

It's interesting that I keep saying the same thing over and over again: It's in the game. The game has been tested extensively. There is no reason to remove it. If you don't like it, don't play or limit your play so your not frustrated by this. I've NEVER been killed by Martyrdom on Overgrown, perhaps that should be your map of choice.

If I'm a n00b, fine. I have no problem with labels, as it is stupid to apply such labels to beings who undergo constant changes in attitude, thought and behavior as we humans do. But, this is something experience teaches you, not someone like myself in a forum somewhere.

I may be a n00b today, but I'll kick your @55 on a MP server any day because I play the game to the fullest extent possible and I don't whine because a game doesn't meet my internal rules. I'll P90 you, M203 you, use Martyrdom, Last Stand, the Voss, a J-10 or whatever it takes to win (short of cheating/exploiting).

Why? Because it is a military combat game. That's the way military combat works. I can just imagine the forces coming home from Vietnam going, "No way, man... we're not doing that anymore because they don't fight fair." Or, in the modern day, "Those IEDs are so ruining the war for me. It's tough to find a good firefight anywhere because the enemy keep hiding and blowing up our vehicles..."

Not going to happen because we've got real men and women over there who realize that real war is ugly. Our pretend war in CoD4 is not supposed to be pretty, either.

If we come to an agreement NOT to do any thing which annoys others, I'm cool with that on a private server. But, on the pubs, I'm gaming to help my team win. If that means I decide Martyrdom is appropriate, I'll use it and you'll just have to deal with it or find a different place to play.

Some folks need to grab their cohones around here and act like men. :salute:

I'm done arguing the point that the game is fine and does not need a change in features. You guys can keep talking about it and wasting your time if you want, I'm going to do something productive and doesn't make me feel like I'm dealing with a bunch of immature spoiled brats who have to have things their way or not at all. That's how my 5 year old acts...

And, I would not call Martyrdom "skill-less" either. I've cooked a grenade and run into a building with 6-8 enemy in it. When the nade finished cooking, it killed me and four enemy. My Martyrdom nade killed the rest after I was dead.

That one act changed the course of that game. It forced the other team to respawn on the other side of the map and halted their defensive camping which was killing our side slowly.

[wenZECA]

I reckon it would be awesome having a c4 vest strapped to yourself than some nade. Also shooting the guy in the vest should cause him to explode which would be hella awesome AND I WANT GORE DAMMIT, i want gibs and blood n bones to explode in a nice little crater ffs :P

[FPS[SONIC]]

Honestly, a bomb vest would be a good thing in this game... the problem is that those vests are very politically-charged and represent prime evil to a lot of people. I think the martyrdom nades are a way around that sticky issue.

I'd like to apologise for my heated words a little earlier. I got a little passionate about the convo. =) That's no reason to act like a jerk, though. So, I offer up my apology for not treating folks with respect.

[The_Eliminator]

^^^^

An apology for a flame post, you are now a legend in my books Jordan.