Absolutely NOTHING to play

[solodude23]

Re: Absolutely NOTHING to play

The only somewhat realistic (or at least) SWAT 4 I have played is coop. All the rest is people running around like headless chickens. Thats probably what you mean by fast paced. Realistic? Not really. Potential to be tactical? Definitely. However people usually aren't tactical at all on pubs and run around like idiots, knowing they can spawn and be back there in seconds. Thats why I loved co-op.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Absolutely NOTHING to play

The only somewhat realistic (or at least) SWAT 4 I have played is coop. All the rest is people running around like headless chickens. Thats probably what you mean by fast paced. Realistic? Not really. Potential to be tactical? Definitely. However people usually aren't tactical at all on pubs and run around like idiots, knowing they can spawn and be back there in seconds. Thats why I loved co-op.

Call it "no fear of dieing". Youre descibing peoples mindset and say it isnt realistic. Speed of game, throwing strenght, no 3 feet jumping under heavy load of gear, engagement procedures and punishments for not complying, exceptionally high damage and damage region of the body (you could very easily die in just one shot, but if your hand is damaged, you lose your aim, you limp if your leg is damaged). Scarring a tip of the helmet wont get you killed. The game is as close to being realistic as an FPS in 2004/5 could get. People who are running around in servers are doing so because of lack of opposition, not because the game is unrealistic. The things that are missing are the details, and blind fire and blind throws, plus destructible environments.

You say its arcade because you can "run around" in it. If course, thats because of the 30 second respawn events. Its pretty fun that youre calling players in SWAT4 headless chickens, especially when in the game of VIP for example you can encounter more teamwork without VOIP between complete strangers than in PR under the same circumstances. Dont base your opinion on a few rounds played in Barricaded Suspects, which is pretty much "TDM".

[jesus]

Re: Absolutely NOTHING to play

really, the retail server u mean this multiplayer demo gets on them. i think i might of played 20, 30mins, not long. i was wondering how they were kicking, LOL, kinda cool game. if i can learn it i might but retail, i love blood & gore in games, one reason i like the PR they spurt when u hit them,LOL

quick question, is it all solo, or do they have teams? conquests?

u ever tried this one chris?

yes, there's deathmatch, team deathmatch, capture the flag and conquest (i think). My favourite is team deathmatch.

Yeah I love blood and gore, too. One thing I love is the Penetrator gun (like I mentioned before, it shoots bolts that are like 7" long) is that a lot of times when you shoot someone with it, their body will fly up against the wall or ceiling (depends on the angle you shot them at) and they'll actually be pinned to the wall because of the bolt. And if you shoot the wall, the bolts will be stuck in the wall. the effects in the game are pretty neat.

[solodude23]

Re: Absolutely NOTHING to play

Call it "no fear of dieing". Youre descibing peoples mindset and say it isnt realistic. Speed of game, throwing strenght, no 3 feet jumping under heavy load of gear, engagement procedures and punishments for not complying, exceptionally high damage and damage region of the body (you could very easily die in just one shot, but if your hand is damaged, you lose your aim, you limp if your leg is damaged). Scarring a tip of the helmet wont get you killed. The game is as close to being realistic as an FPS in 2004/5 could get. People who are running around in servers are doing so because of lack of opposition, not because the game is unrealistic. The things that are missing are the details, and blind fire and blind throws, plus destructible environments.

You are describing game features. Without proper gameplay - those features mean nothing towards a realistic gaming experience. Believe it or not, I judge a game depending on the gameplay, not how many "realistic" features it has.

As fore the damage system, I can't think of any other game with more instances where I would get shot - turn around and kill the person who just shot at me (and vice versa). I have been hit with a slug from point blank and it just irritated me a bit. The .45 SMG seemed to be the most realistic damage-wise but everyone always bitched about it being the noob gun.

You say its arcade because you can "run around" in it. If course, thats because of the 30 second respawn events. Its pretty fun that youre calling players in SWAT4 headless chickens, especially when in the game of VIP for example you can encounter more teamwork without VOIP between complete strangers than in PR under the same circumstances. Dont base your opinion on a few rounds played in Barricaded Suspects, which is pretty much "TDM".

I played VIP more than anything else (outside of coop).

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Absolutely NOTHING to play

You are describing game features. Without proper gameplay - those features mean nothing towards a realistic gaming experience. Believe it or not, I judge a game depending on the gameplay, not how many "realistic" features it has.

ETQW, youve got a teamful of people wothing towards a common goal like in real war (WTFBBQOMG!). Its the features of the game that create the environment, everything else is dependant on players skill levels and skill difference. People with crappy aim will be overrun no matter what and the respawn system allows everyone to play towards common goal with limited fear of death. SWAT4 is close to being realistic in almost all of its aspects, moreso than PR (map size anyone? Engagement range? Wheres the REALISTIC battlefield size?). PR having realistic gameplay is as laughable statement as Michael Jackson being straight. All it takes is a person to engage in a military simulation games, or serve in army to see how fundamentally different the games are. If anything, even the arcade R6V offers more realistic approach. If we argue about "as close to real as we can", I have no further comments, but the glorified "its a realistic game" seems to come from people who have no clue what they are talking about. The difference is that when it comes to SWAT4, it at least resembles the emotional level of crampiness in a closed space and has enough cover to create a real world-like enviornment. The realism in damage and especially the hit locations mean that you will not die if you get hit 3 times into your leg. And if you do, theres no magical shockpaddles or medpacks to heal you.

You want to pick on the lack of realism? Believe me, SWAT4 has a lot less lacks in that department.

As fore the damage system, I can't think of any other game with more instances where I would get shot - turn around and kill the person who just shot at me (and vice versa). I have been hit with a slug from point blank and it just irritated me a bit. The .45 SMG seemed to be the most realistic damage-wise but everyone always bitched about it being the noob gun.

You played the 1.0 unpatched game, which ironically featured the UMP having 2000 gram rounds due to a developers bug. Which enabled the gunt o shoot through solid brick walls and whatnot. If a .45 round goes through a brick wall, Im laughing my *** off. As for the shotguns, there are 2 major issues-

1) SWAT4 offers one of the worst netcode ever. I see people ***** and moan about BF2 hit detection but for SWAT4 its worse in multiple times.
2) Damage regions, a headshot and a chestshot will result in a one shot kill from the slug. Thing is, in various situations the arms actually block the shot from reaching the chest. When in real life the shot would have gone through the arms and through the chest, SWAT4 doesnt simulate the bullets going through bodies (its still a 2004/05 game), so basically you get hit into your hands. This is an issue we tried to adress and noticed when we did the "ballistics tests".

I played VIP more than anything else (outside of coop).

Then seriously, either you played in a server with people who had no clue what to do, or youre full of crap, because every VIP game is an exceptional one teamwork wise.

EDIT: Disclaimer: I dont think I need to outline that PR mod is an exceptional piece of work, but just not my cup of tea.

[$kelet0r]

Re: Absolutely NOTHING to play

SWAT4 is close to being realistic in almost all of its aspects, moreso than PR (map size anyone? Engagement range? Wheres the REALISTIC battlefield size?). PR having realistic gameplay is as laughable statement as Michael Jackson being straight. All it takes is a person to engage in a military simulation games, or serve in army to see how fundamentally different the games are. If anything, even the arcade R6V offers more realistic approach. If we argue about "as close to real as we can", I have no further comments, but the glorified "its a realistic game" seems to come from people who have no clue what they are talking about. The difference is that when it comes to SWAT4, it at least resembles the emotional level of crampiness in a closed space and has enough cover to create a real world-like enviornment. The realism in damage and especially the hit locations mean that you will not die if you get hit 3 times into your leg. And if you do, theres no magical shockpaddles or medpacks to heal you.

That's not fair and you know it. Any mod for BF2 is crippled by the engine DICE created and PR is probably hurt more than all of the others combined because of the standards that the developers and community demand. The key difference is that the gamers act more plausibly in a combat setting - the key factor here being teamwork. The teamwork at non-competition level in SWAT 4 is suspect at best and voip use extinct - being in the same corridor as a team mate like in Counterstrike is not teamplay, only a tenuous illusion of such

[JustMe0171]

Re: Absolutely NOTHING to play

That's not fair and you know it. Any mod for BF2 is crippled by the engine DICE created and PR is probably hurt more than all of the others combined because of the standards that the developers and community demand. The key difference is that the gamers act more plausibly in a combat setting - the key factor here being teamwork. The teamwork at non-competition level in SWAT 4 is suspect at best and voip use extinct - being in the same corridor as a team mate like in Counterstrike is not teamplay, only a tenuous illusion of such

i like clearing rooms & such, but to me it takes just as much skill to clear a hillside or a bunker, or base what ever, maybe even hard to clear a base just depends on alot.
I find all kinds of action on PR, i get pinned down quite a bit & the teamwork has to be there or it makes it harder for your teammates & force & thats why to me its realistic.

vanilla is full of one man armys & they can do really well, but they dont iin PR, they suck, they dont belong because of the realistic part of it. (exception of a good sniper of course)
but swat 4 is good for the close quarter combat im not dishing it, im just saying PR to me takes as much or maybe more skill depending on the person playing.

EDIT: Disclaimer: I dont think I need to outline that PR mod is an exceptional piece of work, but just not my cup of tea.

everybody is different,i tried to tell that to a flamer on another thread because i didnt like COD4 i got flammed. LOL what a douche

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Absolutely NOTHING to play

That's not fair and you know it. Any mod for BF2 is crippled by the engine DICE created and PR is probably hurt more than all of the others combined because of the standards that the developers and community demand. The key difference is that the gamers act more plausibly in a combat setting - the key factor here being teamwork. The teamwork at non-competition level in SWAT 4 is suspect at best and voip use extinct - being in the same corridor as a team mate like in Counterstrike is not teamplay, only a tenuous illusion of such

An excuse is an excuse, if the game engine makes it impossible for a game to reach realism in all aspects, then it really isnt realistic at all, is it? Its extremely hard to simulate realism in all games, but it all starts from the fear of death. The most common concept- supressive fire and its effectiveness even from the noise for example, is by far more efficient and common in SWAT4. Leaning around the corners becomes an impossibility of the opposition has the corner pinned down with constant fire and the choice to take a chance comes from either the players arrogance or inexperience and ends with being lucky (which is rare) or death.

Teamwork in noncompetitional SWAT4 round, depending on gamemode is extremely enjoyable and common. The fact that teamwork is present without VOIP is stunning. The addition of VOIP in PR does nothing more than people walking together and talking together at the same time. In SWAT4, RD or VIP-E mode, people play depending on how their teammates play, so you see organised movements in formation and people actually covering each other a lot. The key gameplay element is helmet mounted cameras, which make teamplay in SWAT4 extremely simple and really basically as natural as breathing. Gamers act in SWAT4 as realistically as the game engine and skill level of the opposition allows. As I said, the only lack is really blindfire around the corners. There are obvious weapon inbalacies that hinder gameplay experience but that is all thanks to the attitude of the developers. Amusingly enough theres no weapon above other and no map left unplayed. Which means that if youre in front of a barrel of a 9mm handgun, youre just as dead as when youre in front of a barrel of a 5.56 assault rifle.

Amusing fun fact, with VOIP being included in SWAT4: TSS expansion pack, it was actually used very little, because HMC and the gameplay setting itsself made VOIP an unnecessary feature. In paintball and airsoft, using radios is also basically on a "need to use" basis used only for telling your location, hostile location and exchanging orders. Competitive play, well its an entirely different matter.

Arrogance or inexperience are two key factors why people may see SWAT4 arcady. Arrogance from the fact that some people are just so much above others that they dont really need to play cautiously, their tactics, knowledge of maps and weapons is just so deep and good, that they literally roll you over. Its rare, but it happens. Proper hardware is crucial to good gaming perfomance. Surround sound is extremely important, just like in real life, the environment presented by SWAT4, proper decisions start can start before you see whats going on, pins pulled, gear changed, terrain or obstacles negotiated. You can hear it from afar.

Inexperienced people make stupid mistakes and get mowed down. They rush and run because they dont know any better, and then they get killed.

All in all, the lacks in realism in SWAT4 are direct features of games generally not being able to simulate the fear of death and panic, and its teamwork in any public server is one of the strongest in MP gaming history. Less so in Barricaded Suspects gamemode (Team Deathmatch) but that is for obvious reasons. Quick rounds, high scores, lots of playing experience.