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  • Fix for point farming -

    Anyone with an unbiased view of the games current state will agree there is a serious problem with the game kit balance. This problem manifests itself even more now IO mode is here. If you want to get a top 3 placing you choose support or medic, there is no contest. I'm not against points, just the fairness of their distribution. This isn't a whine or a flame, it's a carefully considered suggestion.

    Here's the tweaks that I think could change all that (apply to all game modes unless specified).

    Medics - Leave reviving unchanged. Throwing the medkit on the ground no longer earns points, you must hold the kit to heal and get points. Adjust the healing rate as required for balance. More realistic too.

    Support - Throwing ammo bags on the ground no longer earns points, and you must hold the kit while re-arming those around you to earn points. Adjust the resupply point scoring rate to equal medic, so a 99% heal = a 99% resupply. Also more realistic too.

    Engineer - Double the rate at which commander assets are repaired, speed up the rate at which repair points are earned to match the rate of medic and support. But don't change the rate at which vehicles are repaired. Let engys pick up any mine with "G", and defuse C4 and claymores with the utility wrench. Add the ability for engy's to kill with a blow from the spanner.

    Assault - introduce a proper standing to prone delay, players are still dolphin diving. Adjust assault delays in going prone and standing up to half the delay of everyone else (hopefully still nerfing the dolphins and macro exploiters). Make smoke and flashbangs re-suppliable, increase the intensity and area of the smoke grenade effect.

    Anti Tank - give them either 2 X C4, or 2 X mines additional to existing kit.

    Spec Ops - 2 points for destroying commander assets not 1, a bonus 2 points for destroying ALL commander assets themselves.

    Sniper - invisible to UAV and scan when prone (UNLESS they are the last surviving team member). Bonus 2 points for killing a driver or pilot.

    Flag capping - points are earned for neutralising or capping regardless of whether you survive the neutralising or capping. But points still only given if neutralising or capping succeeds. No longer will a player lay beside a white flag at 99% enemy, turn it to 99% capped get killed and not get rewarded. In IO make a flag neutralise / cap worth 3 points to keep the game moving and decrease the amount of grenade walling (but that would need play tested for point farming itself).

    Squads - add orders into the squad leader and commander menus for "Defend Flag Here", and "Capture Flag Here", if the squad captures or defends that flag with their leader outside the cap zone, he still gets assist points as though he was inside the cap zone.

    Set aside your biases, and with an open and fair look I'd say most experienced players would agree that these changes would make the game play out a lot more like it was intended to. Rather than the just a points race that's biased by the kit type.

    edit: An afterthought. If grenade walling continues to be a problem decrease grenade loadout to 2, but leave assault at 3. Subsequent re-supplies only give 1 grenade.

    1.5 please DICE.

  • #2
    Re: Fix for point farming -

    i hear what your saying, and i take in everything your saying and others to better the Sow mod, but on the other hand, ive played karkand and won lots of time as spec ops just through the killing advantages so in that theres pro's and cons to everything, but i do understand what your saying

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    • #3
      Re: Fix for point farming -

      The best thing to do with naders (vanilla and IO) is the way PoE handled it.
      Only SpecOps have frag grenages, some others have smoke.
      I've seen some nades flying in PoE but its not the hail like in vanilla or IO.

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      • #4
        Re: Fix for point farming -

        Originally posted by Lazza66
        Anyone with an unbiased view of the games current state will agree there is a serious problem with the game kit balance. This problem manifests itself even more now IO mode is here. If you want to get a top 3 placing you choose support or medic, there is no contest.
        Well i'm going to pull you up on the pillar your entire argument is based on. It is just as easy to get a 1st position playing as an assault, a spec ops and, depending on the level, a sniper. AT is harder but still possible. In fact I hardly ever choose support on IO, and i find medic boring unless there is a need for one in the squad.

        As for your suggestions I really dont think removing points for healing is going to radically alter the scoreboards, its actually pretty hard to get more than 20 heals in a game, no matter what the situation is. I do not believe the anti tank kit requires c4 or mines, thought perhaps a decent gun would good. I agree with you on spec-ops, but bonus points for a pilot kill is silly, the reward of seeing the chopper crash should be enough for any self-respecting sniper. The UAV idea is interesting, and perhaps could be applied to all classes (if they're not moving, they wont show up on the radar). Yet I am not sure how UAV's work in real life (if it works on body heat or movement).

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        • #5
          Re: Fix for point farming -

          Originally posted by VC_Resurrected
          Well i'm going to pull you up on the pillar your entire argument is based on. It is just as easy to get a 1st position playing as an assault, a spec ops and, depending on the level, a sniper. AT is harder but still possible. In fact I hardly ever choose support on IO, and i find medic boring unless there is a need for one in the squad.

          As for your suggestions I really dont think removing points for healing is going to radically alter the scoreboards, its actually pretty hard to get more than 20 heals in a game, no matter what the situation is. I do not believe the anti tank kit requires c4 or mines, thought perhaps a decent gun would good. I agree with you on spec-ops, but bonus points for a pilot kill is silly, the reward of seeing the chopper crash should be enough for any self-respecting sniper. The UAV idea is interesting, and perhaps could be applied to all classes (if they're not moving, they wont show up on the radar). Yet I am not sure how UAV's work in real life (if it works on body heat or movement).
          Good comments, have thought about, but not included discussion about them.

          Medics get most points from revives, the healing nerf would make that expert badge harder, but overall should bring them more into line.

          Yes, it's possible to place 1st as assault, I've done it in IO, but it's the exception, not the rule (for me anyway).

          Hopefully those ideas should make the harder (points wise) classes a little easier (points wise) and close the gap, rather than radically altering the scoreboard.

          The squad and flag capping tweaks should encourage teamwork.

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          • #6
            Re: Fix for point farming -

            Please.....no more patches!!! If EA wants to make everyone happy the patching would never end. part of the reason why EA went through some bogus patches before 1.4 is because they had a tendency to listen to all the whining. 1.4 is the best patch ever and now the game is as good as its going to get. If you still think further "ballance" is needed either develop your own game and then your class will be perfect, or try something other than BF2.

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            • #7
              Re: Fix for point farming -

              Originally posted by Lazza66
              ...
              1.5 please DICE.
              Keep dreaming.
              Don't expect another patch before 2142 is out and well.
              You know what’s the best and easiest fix? Remove points altogether. It’s going to happen anyway, at some point.
              Not only for IO, but in vanilla too: make ranks based only on time spent on the battlefield. It’s accurate enough for a game like this.
              How do you like that?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Fix for point farming -

                Everything is the same non-IO though. I got 30 resupply points in one round of Karkand last night. (non-IO)

                STOP BLAMING IO!

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                • #9
                  Re: Fix for point farming -

                  LOL I think it is very ironic that your fix for point farming is to give MORE ways for people to earn points! I also think it is ironic that people actually think there are more patches on the way, or even that somebody might be listening to you at all. I think the sooner we all realize that we are yelling into a black hole and just relax and try to wring a few more weeks of interesting gameplay out of this very dead horse the better.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Fix for point farming -

                    Wow Lazza66, a trainwreck of ideas.

                    You forgot about some vital stuff though: capturing the Suburbs, Train Accident or Backyard flags must absolutely give more points than the overused Hotel flag.

                    Hell, you're still walking toward Suburbs and the Hotel whores already got 4 kills meanwhile!!!!1! 8 points for approaching Suburb flag therefor seem fair to me, 10 if you manage to capture it.

                    However, if you got there with a jeep (much faster) 6 are probably enough. If you came on foot, but not all the way from the first spawn maybe some point should be decuded. However, as you were clever and spawned on your SL, you could get a point for this heroic action.

                    However, should the points be the same for Suburbs and Train Accident? What about Backyard? How about additional points for swimming across that dirty river? Should players in vanilla BF2 get more points than IO whores because of stress?

                    The solution is simple: IF YOU REALLY CARE ABOUT THE STATS - CARE ABOUT YOURS ONLY. OR DON'T CARE ABOUT THEM AT ALL. It seems like you spend more time whining on forums (IO = bad, grenades = bad, spm = bad, whore this, whore that) than playing???

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Fix for point farming -

                      what about tweeking the Jet, Assault Helos, and Arty?? Its rediculous, I was playing Wake Island last night and I swear I died atleast 10times at 1 Flag spawn, Jet was dropping bombs, then the Assault Helo would come in with hellfire, and Commander Arty. I almost quit the server, it was kind of rediculous, something should definatly done about spawn killing type stuff, oh and the aircraft carrier should have it own deffence unmanned gun and missle thing, or make it as soon as the hostles come close to the carrier they instantly die. Same with other maps that have the red circle on the flag as a Armys main spawn.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Fix for point farming -

                        Originally posted by GE0.5TIGMA
                        ...something should definatly done about spawn killing type stuff, oh and the aircraft carrier should have it own deffence unmanned gun and missle thing, or make it as soon as the hostles come close to the carrier they instantly die. Same with other maps that have the red circle on the flag as a Armys main spawn.
                        POE already has it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Fix for point farming -

                          Eight changes are necessary to balance the IO classes.

                          #1. Remove medic assault rifle and replace with a sub-machinegun. Either the MP series or the P90. The key here is not to remove his long range effectiveness but preserve his close up use.

                          #2. Remove resupply of grenades by support. All classes only given two grenades at the start. Only resuppliable by supplies from commander. This is crucial to make grenades a valued commodity, not a primary weapon. They should be used to dislodge entrenched troops.

                          #3. Increase radius of AT missile damage, but lower the maximum damage to 90% of total health of soldier. Think of this class as ArTillery as opposed to Anti-Tank.

                          #4. Add significant health to the Engineer class, possibly 1.5x to 1.75x current. Add body armor. View this class as a close range engagement class.

                          #5. Make claymores destructable with grenades/mines. Snipers now start with three claymores.

                          #6. Base assault class starts with 2 flash bangs and 2 smoke grenades.

                          #7. Make C4 throwable again.

                          #8. Increase value of flag captues, four points primary, two secondary. Capturing flags must appear to be of value. Currently, it's far easier to get point just by joining the fray.

                          The key to these changes is that they restructure each class to have a more specific goal and remove those abilities which cannot be balanced without vehicles.

                          Medic -> short engagement range
                          Support -> removal of grenades resupply
                          AT -> now artillary
                          Engi -> close range assault
                          Sniper -> removed automatic claymore death
                          Assault -> able to mask movement
                          SF -> with C4 throwing back they will have their unique abilities again

                          The changes presented at the start of this thread are in the right direction, but do not adequately address all classes. These do.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Fix for point farming -

                            some of those points i agree with.
                            i have won more than 1 round with assault.
                            i also got my basic anti-tank on IO. (was very difficult)
                            personally i love IO mode. no arty, or tanks base raping.
                            i say to people that if they dont like IO mode then don't play it.
                            as someone who plays it often, i dont complain about normal mode.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Fix for point farming -

                              Originally posted by scott111
                              Please.....no more patches!!! If EA wants to make everyone happy the patching would never end. part of the reason why EA went through some bogus patches before 1.4 is because they had a tendency to listen to all the whining. 1.4 is the best patch ever and now the game is as good as its going to get. If you still think further "ballance" is needed either develop your own game and then your class will be perfect, or try something other than BF2.
                              +1 million

                              Unless Dice is fixing a bug or glitch, I don't want them to touch the game ever again....no more gameplay changes.

                              With that said, I've taken 1st place with every kit at one time or another (even sniper). IMO the key to really doing well is to not play the same kit an entire round. I typically play all of the kits (give or take one or two) depending on the map and what I'm doing and what the enemy is throwing at me. OP you've got a high rank with lots of playtime so you no doubt know this already.

                              Is it easy to get more points as medic? Yes, but so what? I haven't hardly touched the kit since I got it to 100 hours (many months ago) and I still do well whenever I play. I don't take #1 back to back, but every now and then. The key is to be proficient with all the weapons so you can switch kits as needed.

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