IO Mode. It isn't going anywhere, so why not suggest some changes?

[Paas]

So, yeah... IO mode. I know, I know. It's a touchy subject. On one hand it's a frantic kill fest of excitement. On the other hand it's the most outrageously hack-job'ed attempt at pleasing the base of the community. All of those opinions are debateable. What's NOT up for debate though is the fact that IO is here to stay.

With that in mind I decided to revert back to the tried and true method of getting my opinion out; making suggestions. Planewhore already had a lengthy thread going that centers the debate about IO pretty well. So, I won't bother rehashing all of that. What I will say is I think there needs to be a couple of changes in regards to IO mode. Some things that EA could have really thought out better.

I'll list them:

1. Limit IO mode to 16 player maps!
- Not that I feel the servers themselves should be limited to 16 people, just the map size. If you're going to try and present this format as a legitimate game mode it needs to function with some type of logic. The point was to put people "directly" into the fight. Right? Well, considering there isn't an engine or transport helo to help me traverse that digital 2 miles of landscape, we need to shrink it down to somthing logical and acceptable. 16 player maps already are pretty much built to infantry specifications. It shouldn't be too much of a hassle to tweak them a bit more so they can be universally functional in both Conquest mode and IO-Conquest mode.

2. Modify the damnable kits! Aaaaargh!
- This is just unacceptable. I know Dice/EA had to at least sit around the "round table" for 5 minutes. You're telling me an entire development team couldn't put two and two together; "Wait! Without vehicles, medics are going to become slightly dominate"... and then another chimes in, "Oh yeah! ...and how is anti-tank gunna' fucntion without a tank to anti'!?" ...and yet another's wisdom blossoms, "What about snipers? Shouldn't they get a bone?" ...and then the final cog in the wheel would burst from his seat with excitement, "...hey!? Isn't support going to turn into mobile mortar with their abbility to rain grenade death on almost anyone!?"

...saddly it doesn't seem like it went down that way. Nope, it seems like the Dev team just farted out some crud and went to the local pub'.

I digress though, some minor kit changes need to take effect. Let's start with the Medic. He seems to be the love child of the majority of the IO breed, and would good reason. He can heal "himself" after every damnable firefight! Let's not even factor in his abbility to revive and heal teamates, and pack around one of the most dominate small arms in the game. Ok, so he doesn't have armor? Does it really matter? He has a lifebag that functions like the "Borrowed Time" abbility in DotA (Whoever understands that needs to look up SSgt.Paas on B-Net). If you do manage to do damage to him and he survives, he's good to go for the next firefight, almost as if he just spawned.

I know at this point some of you are like, "Damnit Paas, just get to the friggin' point! Jeebus!" Well, I will! The point is the Medic needs to lose his abbility to heal himself. He also needs to be left with only "ONE" grenade; if even that. CALM DOWN! ...I can just feel the flame-jockeys' rushing for the "reply" button. Well, wait till i'm done first!

Now, you may be wondering, "Well what's the damn point of playing medic now! He loses all his uber-l33tness!". Not entirely true. He still has a very competitive (if not the best) small arms selection, he still has the abbility to heal other teamate and keep them in the fight (including other medics). He also still has a grenade! I mean, "A GRENADE"; ...thas' like a goldmine in an infantry only match. So in effect he's still a powerhouse. He just won't survive every flippin' firefight with perfect health; ...pretty much what the current situation adds up to now.

Next in the lineup, Anti-Tank! Oh, man. Last shafting I recall like this was when the developers decided to fix the "broken" A.A., and in the process of making it work correctly punished the ground forces with a shorter engagement range... good times. No, but on a serious note, has anyone been shafted any harder in IO than the Anti-Tank kit?

Now, I know what some of you're thinking:

"OMG!? Yur' n00b! Anti-Tynk pwns n00bs with 12' an' Noob Tubin'!"

Well, yeah, you could play him like that if ya' want. What about the people who don't want to spend their time sniping people with an "ANTI-TANK" rocket? It's simple really. Take away his rockets, give him claymores. Call him, "Anti-Infantry"... ok maybe not. He would still be Anti-Tank, but he would serve a purpose. Although! Snipers would have to lose the claymores, but considering that cannot really be Arty Bombed, or Carty Bombed, they should have to worry about infantry sneaking up on their unprotected hineys. Did I mention that have killer engagement ranges over every other infantry class in the game? I didn't? Well... let it be known from this point on.

Engineers you sayz'? What about em'? Never liked their ol' punk!... ok, kidding. Engineers should be graced with an unhealthy count of Smoke, and Flash grenades. That mixture along with a punishing close range weapon would make them the ideal class for tight area clearing (Rooms, Alleys, etc.). I would say about 4 Flashes, and maybe 1 Smoke (Don't want the map to look like a smokehouse; I ain't talking about pork). That's all I can think of in regards to them. I mean, yeah, they do still get to repair stuff, but considering the commander class isn't nearly as dangerous as it was in Conquest, you won't be seeing many engineers in the backfield.

Support? simple. Don't let them resupply themselves. Yep. It's that simple.

Assault. Hmmmmm. I was thinking just leave em' with 12 Rifle mags' (8 for the G3), and 2 M203s. No handgrenades, no smokes, no pistol; no nothing but a rifle, armor, and a grenade launcher with very few grenades. Assault should just be a brute. A mindless cannon fodder that can take hits, and throw them out, yet lacks any type of flair. A mindless killing machine basically.

THE BOAT CONCEPT IS ALREADY IN GAME!

That's all folks. Yes, I searched. Yes, I found topics similar, but... they lacked civility and grace and I didn't want to enter my ideas into an already "Flame'ish" enviroment. Sue' me?

Oh, and chime in with any tweaks. All of this material is a lingering brain fart at best.

{WP}Paas

[VC_Resurrected]

Re: IO Mode. It ain't going nowhere, so why not suggest some changes?

1. No.
2. Grenades removal should be a server option. **** em, we dont need em. And who cares if you cant play engineer, i mean really. Chances are if you really like being an engineer, you wont like IO anyway.
Most of your other suggestions are a bit over the top to be honest and not very likely to happen.
3. There are boats! I played IO wake yesterday... how do you think i got onto the island?!

[redrider]

Re: IO Mode. It ain't going nowhere, so why not suggest some changes?

Paas I think the IO mode was a big mistake. It makes BF2 look like a Counter Strike wanna be. The only people who seem to do good are the ones who never miss and cant be killed (I didnt call them the ones running a cheat this time).
Outside of that, They should put you and Planewhore in charge of the IO project. At least you guys have some good ideas. Who ever came up with the IO Idea farce (in its current state) sure dont have a clue.
Its (IO mode) what the community asked for? Show me, where, when, 'cause I dont believe it! . . . . . . . . . .Red

[sknight]

Re: IO Mode. It ain't going nowhere, so why not suggest some changes?

Overall I like your ideas

I do not agree with taking away the Assault's pistol. It's a backup weapon, and therefore I think it's necessary. Operation Clean Sweep would be usable if they made the US main point on the main island in IO mode.

[Scinto]

Re: IO Mode. It ain't going nowhere, so why not suggest some changes?

1) no
2) why now are you whinging abour nades after playing for however long?,,
You can still play engy in IO mode dont be a wussy, running around the streets with a shotgun is so much fun, sure they may think your a bit weird dropping mines but they kinda explode when someone ditches a vehicle on them so you have a chance of getting a kill,

3) i doubt even Dice would be stupid enough to leave boats out,

IF YOU DON'T LIKE IO MODE DONT PLAY IT!

;
to whom it may concern create a whinge/whine/complain/rant section plz

[WolfAlmighty]

Re: IO Mode. It ain't going nowhere, so why not suggest some changes?

Okay, this is a repost of a post I made in another thread but as it seems to fit here best:

•Include light (DPV, FAV) and heavy transport vehicles (Vodnik, HMMWV, NJ2046).
•Since the only vehicles that would be there would be unarmed ones and the only way to kill someone with one would be to run them over, you really wouldn't get much use out of an AT rocket (not to mention how the buggy hit detection usually causes rockets to go clean through speeding Vodniks and FAVs anyway), and by the same token since the only vehicles that would be around would be transport which, I'm assuming, would be fairly plentiful there wouldn't be much need for repairing them. Therefore, I would combine AT and Engineer classes into the 'Vehicle' class. Give them both AT mines and AT rockets, keep the wrench, take away the body armour, and give them a choice of weapon loadouts between shotguns (engineer default) or SMGs (AT default). With no vehicles there'd be no need for this class at all, but with just light vehicles there's no need for two anti-vehicle classes with short-ranged infantry weapons, so they would need more perks to make them a desirable class. Combining the two would do the trick.
•Combine Assault and Medic, and take away their ability to revive teammates. Give them body armour. Medic already is, essentially, the pseudo-assault class anyway, so why not make it official? Just give them body armour and call it done, but take away the ability to resurrect teammates in battle. This would put more emphasis on keeping the squad leader alive and also prevent it from being an overpowered class (which medic is in IO mode, no use denying it).
•Combine Spec Ops and Sniper class, giving them both C4 and claymores and allow them to choose between either a carbine or a sniper rifle. Basically make this the sabotage class, but make claymores both destructable by explosives again and make them FF-on only. For shorter-visibility maps like Karkand people would choose the carbines and for longer-ranged maps they would probably choose the sniper rifle.
•Keep support the same as it is now, but allow them to deploy their LMG as a mounted MG. I've mentioned this idea before a LONG time ago (back when LMGs were still ridiculously inaccurate) and I still think it would have merit, even moreso in an IO mode. The LMG could be on a tripod and have a full 360° motion, but unlike the typical mounted MG it only has one full clip on it and has to be resupplied via ammo pack before it can be reloaded. When deployed (which would take about 5 seconds to prevent it from being abused by having it an instant thing) ANYONE can use it and it has the same accuracy/recoil as a regular mounted MG would, but the support trooper wouldn't be able to use his LMG until he picks it back up again. Like how mortars worked in BF:V. Combining this with my insta-prone suggestion (below) would make support a defensive class only as they're intended, but a damned good one, and wouldn't step on assault/medic's toes at all.
•Take away supply crates. This makes people rely on their teammates for ammo and health, and commander assets would need to be better protected (also giving another need for the Vehicle class).
•Reduce the splash radius on hand grenades. This would instantly cut down on many of the complaints about nade spam. Splash radius on hand nades should be reduced to just a little larger than what a GL nade is right now.
•Reduce the amount of cone-of-fire/deviation on all guns across the board, barring the standing/crouching deviation of LMGs which would be fine as it is now. If guns were more accurate there would also be less need for nade spam since the guns themselves would be more lethal.
•Eliminate insta-prone accuracy. When you hit the prone key, your accuracy will be the same as that as if you were jumping (back when you could still jump and shoot) for about 2-3 seconds and it will then settle down into the best possible accuracy. BF1942 and BF:V veterans will remember this feature well. Proning would only be used as a defensive position, not a 'come-around-the-corner-and-belly-flop-against-someone-5-feet-away' position.

Some of the class combination features I believe are occurring in BF2142 (correct me if I'm wrong, though...I haven't read much on BF2142 TBH) but in a mode where a big chunk of the initial BF2 game has been taken out there isn't as much need for class diversity, so I think we could do with just 4 classes.

Just a few of my thoughts. Of course, it goes without saying that it would be great if they could reduce hit detection errors and shabby netcode, but that's probably a whole other story.

~Wolfgang

[Scinto]

Re: IO Mode. It ain't going nowhere, so why not suggest some changes?

Okay, this is a repost of a post I made in another thread but as it seems to fit here best:

•Include light (DPV, FAV) and heavy transport vehicles (Vodnik, HMMWV, NJ2046).
•Since the only vehicles that would be there would be unarmed ones and the only way to kill someone with one would be to run them over, you really wouldn't get much use out of an AT rocket (not to mention how the buggy hit detection usually causes rockets to go clean through speeding Vodniks and FAVs anyway), and by the same token since the only vehicles that would be around would be transport which, I'm assuming, would be fairly plentiful there wouldn't be much need for repairing them. Therefore, I would combine AT and Engineer classes into the 'Vehicle' class. Give them both AT mines and AT rockets, keep the wrench, take away the body armour, and give them a choice of weapon loadouts between shotguns (engineer default) or SMGs (AT default). With no vehicles there'd be no need for this class at all, but with just light vehicles there's no need for two anti-vehicle classes with short-ranged infantry weapons, so they would need more perks to make them a desirable class. Combining the two would do the trick.
•Combine Assault and Medic, and take away their ability to revive teammates. Give them body armour. Medic already is, essentially, the pseudo-assault class anyway, so why not make it official? Just give them body armour and call it done, but take away the ability to resurrect teammates in battle. This would put more emphasis on keeping the squad leader alive and also prevent it from being an overpowered class (which medic is in IO mode, no use denying it).
•Combine Spec Ops and Sniper class, giving them both C4 and claymores and allow them to choose between either a carbine or a sniper rifle. Basically make this the sabotage class, but make claymores both destructable by explosives again and make them FF-on only. For shorter-visibility maps like Karkand people would choose the carbines and for longer-ranged maps they would probably choose the sniper rifle.
•Keep support the same as it is now, but allow them to deploy their LMG as a mounted MG. I've mentioned this idea before a LONG time ago (back when LMGs were still ridiculously inaccurate) and I still think it would have merit, even moreso in an IO mode. The LMG could be on a tripod and have a full 360° motion, but unlike the typical mounted MG it only has one full clip on it and has to be resupplied via ammo pack before it can be reloaded. When deployed (which would take about 5 seconds to prevent it from being abused by having it an instant thing) ANYONE can use it and it has the same accuracy/recoil as a regular mounted MG would, but the support trooper wouldn't be able to use his LMG until he picks it back up again. Like how mortars worked in BF:V. Combining this with my insta-prone suggestion (below) would make support a defensive class only as they're intended, but a damned good one, and wouldn't step on assault/medic's toes at all.
•Take away supply crates. This makes people rely on their teammates for ammo and health, and commander assets would need to be better protected (also giving another need for the Vehicle class).
•Reduce the splash radius on hand grenades. This would instantly cut down on many of the complaints about nade spam. Splash radius on hand nades should be reduced to just a little larger than what a GL nade is right now.
•Reduce the amount of cone-of-fire/deviation on all guns across the board, barring the standing/crouching deviation of LMGs which would be fine as it is now. If guns were more accurate there would also be less need for nade spam since the guns themselves would be more lethal.
•Eliminate insta-prone accuracy. When you hit the prone key, your accuracy will be the same as that as if you were jumping (back when you could still jump and shoot) for about 2-3 seconds and it will then settle down into the best possible accuracy. BF1942 and BF:V veterans will remember this feature well. Proning would only be used as a defensive position, not a 'come-around-the-corner-and-belly-flop-against-someone-5-feet-away' position.

Some of the class combination features I believe are occurring in BF2142 (correct me if I'm wrong, though...I haven't read much on BF2142 TBH) but in a mode where a big chunk of the initial BF2 game has been taken out there isn't as much need for class diversity, so I think we could do with just 4 classes.

Just a few of my thoughts. Of course, it goes without saying that it would be great if they could reduce hit detection errors and shabby netcode, but that's probably a whole other story.

~Wolfgang

wouldnt that require recoding of the game itself rather than something to be adjusted in a patch? not to mention a hell of alot of work

[Paas]

Re: IO Mode. It ain't going nowhere, so why not suggest some changes?

1. No.

So you work for the U.N. I see? Lovely.

2. Grenades removal should be a server option. **** em, we dont need em. And who cares if you cant play engineer, i mean really. Chances are if you really like being an engineer, you wont like IO anyway.
Most of your other suggestions are a bit over the top to be honest and not very likely to happen.

I don't think any suggestions presented to EA are going to happen? Why do I bother? Well... it's kinda' like voting. You cannot complain about G.W.Bush if you didn't vote. Same mindset in regards to the forums.

3. There are boats! I played IO wake yesterday... how do you think i got onto the island?!

Fair enough. I haven't tried either Wake or Cleansweep in IO mode. I was simply told there were "NO" boats. Considering how transportation vehicles were stripped out in every other regard, I didn't expect anything less from good ol' EA.

1) no

Another U.N. worker!? Blue helmets everywhere!?

2) why now are you whinging abour nades after playing for however long?,,
You can still play engy in IO mode dont be a wussy, running around the streets with a shotgun is so much fun, sure they may think your a bit weird dropping mines but they kinda explode when someone ditches a vehicle on them so you have a chance of getting a kill,

You completely missed the point. Completely! I won't even bother explaining it to you because in my mind you're a complete waste of life. I mean, if offering an alternate perspective is "whinging" in your eyes then you're not even worth associating with. A complete waste of dirt and life.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE IO MODE DONT PLAY IT!

...did you even think before you typed this? I mean, did you even backtrack to all the suggestions and ideas presented in the early stages of BF2 in regards to the imbalanced nature of Jets and think, "Wait, if my logic stands than anyone who mentioned any balance tweaks shouldn't be playing BF2!? ...strange"; or did you just spew some of the most retarded crap out of your fingers and wrap it in caps' for +3 to Idiotic?

I'm through with you, don't respond to anymore of my threads. That way I don't have to read this crud, and you don't have to read "whinging"? There! Everyone is happy.

to whom it may concern create a whinge/whine/complain/rant section plz

...and stop whinging about whinging!

{WP}Paas

Edit: Thanks for the addition to the "think tank" Wolfgang.

[Orion126]

Re: IO Mode. It ain't going nowhere, so why not suggest some changes?

Sounds like 2142 Wolfgang.

[Shepherd007]

Re: IO Mode. It ain't going nowhere, so why not suggest some changes?

Make the support and medic classes unable to rearm/heal themselves, put sprint distance back to normal.

IO was a poor implementation, and the assault kit should be the primary kit in IO, not the medic.

[WolfAlmighty]

Re: IO Mode. It ain't going nowhere, so why not suggest some changes?

wouldnt that require recoding of the game itself rather than something to be adjusted in a patch? not to mention a hell of alot of work

Yeah, it would, but the TC wanted suggestions on how to improve IO. I don't play IO because (among many other reasons) of how sloppily it was thrown together since nothing was changed to balance the classes and of the seven soldier kits only three or maybe four are used in IO. Without some sort of transport vehicles there'd be no way anyone would play an open map like Kubra or OCS in IO. I'm just making suggestions on what would improve IO to the point where it would actually be worth my time to play is all.

Of course, it runs the risk, without medics able to revive people, that it could end as a sniper-fest, but there are other ways to deal with that problem, too.

~Wolfgang

[vesuvan]

Re: IO Mode. It ain't going nowhere, so why not suggest some changes?

So you work for the U.N. I see? Lovely.



I don't think any suggestions presented to EA are going to happen? Why do I bother? Well... it's kinda' like voting. You cannot complain about G.W.Bush if you didn't vote. Same mindset in regards to the forums.



Fair enough. I haven't tried either Wake or Cleansweep in IO mode. I was simply told there were "NO" boats. Considering how transportation vehicles were stripped out in every other regard, I didn't expect anything less from good ol' EA.



Another U.N. worker!? Blue helmets everywhere!?



You completely missed the point. Completely! I won't even bother explaining it to you because in my mind you're a complete waste of life. I mean, if offering an alternate perspective is "whinging" in your eyes then you're not even worth associating with. A complete waste of dirt and life.




...did you even think before you typed this? I mean, did you even backtrack to all the suggestions and ideas presented in the early stages of BF2 in regards to the imbalanced nature of Jets and think, "Wait, if my logic stands than anyone who mentioned any balance tweaks shouldn't be playing BF2!? ...strange"; or did you just spew some of the most retarded crap out of your fingers and wrap it in caps' for +3 to Idiotic?

I'm through with you, don't respond to anymore of my threads. That way I don't have to read this crud, and you don't have to read "whinging"? There! Everyone is happy.



...and stop whinging about whinging!

{WP}Paas

Edit: Thanks for the addition to the "think tank" Wolfgang.

Paas you are ON FIRE.

[WolfAlmighty]

Re: IO Mode. It ain't going nowhere, so why not suggest some changes?

Sounds like 2142 Wolfgang.

Heh yeah, it kind of does I guess. As I said I haven't read much about BF2142 other than that they were combining some of the classes. Maybe that means BF2142 will do infantry combat right where BF2 failed. *shrugs*

~Wolfgang

[Paas]

Re: IO Mode. It ain't going nowhere, so why not suggest some changes?

Personally I'm not to keen on merging the Assault and Medic. If we could just tone the medic back a bit, make him less combat hardend, it could do wonders for the balance in that regard. He needs to maintain his position though. The Medics ability to heal is kinda' ingrained in BF2s core gameplay.

...then again so were vehicles, so I guess my theory is kinda' moot?

{WP}Paas

[RavenRealms]

Re: IO Mode. It ain't going nowhere, so why not suggest some changes?

1. No
2. No
3. There are boats.

IF you don't like IO, then don't play it. Simple.

IO mode is perfect the way it is. I get pwned by medics all the time with their L85A1's. I kill whole squads for them just to be revived by a lone medic, but i don't complain about it.

Leave it alone.