Infantry only, and grenades..

[Batausu]

Re: Infantry only, and grenades..

You have a problem with grenades? Simple solution: kill the grenades throwers.
You don’t actually think capping flags should be done with enemies around, do you?!
Grenades are so slow and easy to avoid, they even shout at you: “Hey, I’ve just tossed a grenade, better watch yourself”… What more do you want? A grenade proof suit?!

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: Infantry only, and grenades..

Grenades are by far the easiest way to get lots of kills while playing infantry. Some people don't like to hear that because they enjoy spamming grenades and it takes away from their already hollow kills. While nade spam is the most obvious on Karkand it really works on any map as long as you've got concentrated infantry. It's sad really because when I go gun to gun with 95% of the infantry they're going down because I'm more skilled then they are. With grenades skill is not a factor as you don't have to aim them and in some scenarios and situations grenades become virtually impossible to avoid if you have enough people throwing them at you. People fear going up against a player like me rifle to rifle and grenades give them the ability to fight back which is the number one reason I believe they are so popular. One player adopting this kind of mentality doesn't make much of a difference but when it becomes as popular as it has become and you've got 15 people doing nothing but throwing grenades for easy kills it can make any map ridiculous.

Again, the counter to a non-stop wall of exploding grenades is armor. Armored vehicles take very little damage from grenades and they can scoot right up over the exploding field of grenades and kill the offending spammers. The counter does not not exist in IO mode so grenade spamming is even more effective. Effective to the point of being obscene. Add on to that loss of a viable grenade counter to the stalemate/camping nature of IO mode and grenade spamming is nothing more than an exploitation of broken game mechanics for easy points. Grenade spamming in IO mode is just as much stat padding as revive/killing a buddy.

This is the point Metallica was trying to make isn't it?

To be perfectly honest I like to keep an eye up at the top of the kill spam list and watch what is killing people the most on my regular vehicle-enabled server. It doesn't matter what map it is (Sharqi, Karkand, Jalalabad... you name it). The number one killer in every single round I play is grenades. The thing that kills me the most by far is the grenade. Grenades probably account for more total kills on a map like Karkand than all of the armor and rifles totaled. It's really that sad. I don't want to take grenades away from the people but I want them to become a TOOL that you use as a supplement to the rest of your offense. Because when grenades are the most popular way to kill and people don't even bother using their rifle you know you've got a problem.

[LifeCrysis]

Re: Infantry only, and grenades..

You have a problem with grenades? Simple solution: kill the grenades throwers.
You don’t actually think capping flags should be done with enemies around, do you?!
Grenades are so slow and easy to avoid, they even shout at you: “Hey, I’ve just tossed a grenade, better watch yourself”… What more do you want? A grenade proof suit?!

Apperently this is the person we are talking about.

I hat playing IO because all you here is grenade, grenade, greande, grenade, grenade, greande, grenade, grenade, greande, grenade, get first aid here get first aid here, hold on recharging, get first adi here get first aid here, hold on recharging, get first adi here get first aid here, hold on recharging, get first adi here get first aid here, hold on recharging, get first adi here get first aid here, hold on recharging, get first adi here get first aid here, hold on recharging, get ammo here, get ammo here, get ammo here.

I hate IO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Batausu]

Re: Infantry only, and grenades..

Apperently this is the person we are talking about.

What?!
In 476h of playing I have used grenades less then 3h.
I hardly use grenades, what I'm saying is that you can avoid them if you know what you are doing, that's all.
IO is mostly a sniper's war, as far as I've seen.

[Combat-Quokka]

Re: Infantry only, and grenades..

An interesting contradiction you've made. If you don't have a tank problem then how is it possible for me to be a "tank whore".

The thing you consistantly have failed to realise, is that I don't think it's a problem. As I've stated, on many occasions. Or maybe you have already forgotten when I said this...

Mate, I have nothing against armour-whores. Or jet-whores, or chopper-whores. Better having a couple on our side, than having them on the other team, if you know what I mean. Hell, sometimes I get frustrated that there aren't enough of them, so the enemy comes up and steals our tank.

So keep your angry little man syndrome to yourself.

To be perfectly honest I like to keep an eye up at the top of the kill spam list and watch what is killing people the most on my regular vehicle-enabled server. It doesn't matter what map it is (Sharqi, Karkand, Jalalabad... you name it). The number one killer in every single round I play is grenades.

Maybe that's the problem. Perhaps you should be looking in front of you.

Because I play as an infantry player more, and I always have. And I don't see what you're seeing, and I never have.

[Lazza66]

Re: Infantry only, and grenades..

The thing you consistantly have failed to realise, is that I don't think it's a problem.

So you're saying that you don't have a problem with "armour whores" doing what they do, not that you don't have a problem in countering tanks in game?

Sorry, just not clear on that.

[Eviscereightor]

Re: Infantry only, and grenades..

IO is only good when you have a squad of clanners to break the nadespam stalemate with skill, either by rushing them with medic spam, or going around another way and capping flags. Teams of pub randoms gravitate into a big chokepoint and sit there nading each other.

[DrJambo]

Re: Infantry only, and grenades..

IO mode only can be summed up in a few words - sniper, medic and support.

Take for example the Jalalabad map. My tactics are usually a fairly fail-safe way to earn myself a medal. First I go sniper and wrack up a nice 20-0 kill:death score, usually because I've got a nice medic team reviving every sniper or grenade death I receive. I continue sniping until someone on the US side captures a flag, something that IO doesn't instinctively necessitate since the time spent doing the 10 km run to a flag for a meagre 2 points isn't time well spent. Nevertheless, if some chump(s) does this for the good of the team... then it's at this time I might think about a switch to medic or support. I switch to medic if I feel I have to do a lot of work on my own, I switch to support if my team's already got a lot of medics. However, in IO mode it's entirely possible to continue using sniper kit throughout as without any vehicles a rifle hit followed by a quick pistol switch is often much more efficient. Plus, the accuracy of the zoomed sniper rifle is good enough that you never have to go prone. On top of all that dropping claymores around the various approach routes is always a guaranteed extra.

Map finishes, reloads and then I rinse and repeat the process.

The only thing I'd say in defence of IO mode is if the pro-flyboys had been more honest about the overpowered nature of jets many patches ago, we might as a community never have gone down this route. You can complain about stat-padding IO all you like, but ultimately a player with a fast computer guaranteeing them access to a jet is arguably worse; particularly on a map like Wake 2007.

[Fakesound]

Re: Infantry only, and grenades..

IO bores the crap out of me... I hate walking

[Paas]

Re: Infantry only, and grenades..

The only thing I'd say in defence of IO mode is if the pro-flyboys had been more honest about the overpowered nature of jets many patches ago, we might as a community never have gone down this route.

Wait? So it' the fault of talented jet pilots that the community is drawn to infantry based settings?

You can complain about stat-padding IO all you like, but ultimately a player with a fast computer guaranteeing them access to a jet is arguably worse; particularly on a map like Wake 2007.

Yeah, I agree. Although this is entirely the fault of Dice/EA. I was in the crowd of folks screaming at the top of mah' lungs, "Jets are entirely too overpowered!". What did EA do? The fixed broken A.A. and reduced the range. Translation? They did jack diddly.

So as much as I agree with your general idea, I disagree regarding who's fault it is.

I mean by your logic one could pin IO mode entirely on Karky' players. It could be said it's a product of their will to play nothing else.

{WP}Paas

[Bickus^Dickus]

Re: Infantry only, and grenades..

Infantry only =bad idea.

[DrJambo]

Re: Infantry only, and grenades..

Wait? So it' the fault of talented jet pilots that the community is drawn to infantry based settings?

Well, it's not quite so simple as attributing blame to one particular group as such. I've no beef with pilots being good or doing what the game allows them to, whether it be raping carriers or bases. But for months on end we had threads detailing the overpowered nature of jets when compared to anything else BF2 has to offer and some of them vehemently defended on these very forums that jets are supposed to be that way and that everyone else simply had to adapt and get used to them having greater than 10:1 kill death ratios. Let's face it the fun comes from killing, not being killed and by that logic they're having a lot more fun than the guys getting continually wasted on the ground...

Anyway, the short of it is that nothing was really done to address the situation as you already stated. They made AA better but reduced the range to less than the jet cannon. So, the complaints naturally continued and ultimately many just wanted to play without the jets. I have to admit I wouldn't have minded that option myself. Nevertheless, DICE took it too far and removed all the vehicles... sigh.

And what we have now as a result is IO, a half-baked, rather pointless game of infantry-only warfare. All I was saying was that if DICE and some of the pro-pilots arguing that jets were fine as they were, had instead actually listened to the clamours of fairness in resolving some of the jet issues then many might not have continued to campaign for this IO mode...

[Paas]

Re: Infantry only, and grenades..

To be honest, I don't recall a large campaign for IO mode. I didn't see any threads requesting it to the severity that Dice/EA has implement it.

I think they just gunna' tossed a random steak into the Pit-Bull pit an wondered if we would bite. Considering a good 30% or so of the community is chomping hard, I am sure they consider it a success.

I digress though, I really don't recall any direct threads asking exclusively for IO mode as it's today. I know there are other forums, but you figure at least one or two would pop up on TotalBF2. Maybe I am just blind?

{WP}Paas

[sknight]

Re: Infantry only, and grenades..

To be honest, I don't recall a large campaign for IO mode. I didn't see any threads requesting it to the severity that Dice/EA has implement it.

I don't recall one either. But I DO remember a campaign to make more city maps since people generally didn't like getting bombed all the times or choppered to death. It's possible that DICE took that as a sign that people would like an IO mode.

[DrJambo]

Re: Infantry only, and grenades..

There was a massive petition over at the BF2RS.com forum.