Easiest way for DICE to fix the J-10 imbalance

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Easiest way for DICE to fix the J-10 imbalance

good pilots know alot about the different planes in bf2, as such their opinions are more valid than anyone elses.
most of the comments made about planes recently are nerf the j10, make it slower blah blah, but the fact is most of those comments come from nubs. its blatently only the f35 that was having the trouble. i also saw very few people mention the f18 as being more of a missile dodger than the j10. so why did these people not complain about the f18 also ? well they either know **** all, or they are keeping quiet about their favourite usmc plane.

I treat missile hit detection issues as a bug, which I hope DICE will adress with the same seriousness as CTD. This is why I dont feel the need to adress J10s nor F18s missile issues. Thing is, they arent even the only jets having the issue. Im more concerned about balance in maneuverability because maneuverability = attack oppurtunity. And this is a balance issue, not a bug.

[jakswan]

Re: Easiest way for DICE to fix the J-10 imbalance

good pilots know alot about the different planes in bf2, as such their opinions are more valid than anyone elses.
most of the comments made about planes recently are nerf the j10, make it slower blah blah, but the fact is most of those comments come from nubs. its blatently only the f35 that was having the trouble. i also saw very few people mention the f18 as being more of a missile dodger than the j10. so why did these people not complain about the f18 also ? well they either know **** all, or they are keeping quiet about their favourite usmc plane.

Oh come off it Zip, as I recall your biggest gripe about 1.2 was the fact that some n00b could shoot you down. Anyway wondering off the point....

It's pretty clear Dice are not going to spend any sort of time on this so a quick fix is all we're going to get. I can't imagine that EA would actually admit that 1.2 thru 1.3 made things worse and by rolling back that would look stupid, mind thinking about it ....:)

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: Easiest way for DICE to fix the J-10 imbalance

I'll go further 1.12 meant zero dogfighting on the majority of servers I played.

Are you implying that you're god or something? How could infantry possibly know what is happening in the sky? I'll tell you right now in 1.12 I spent 10x the amount dogfighting that I do in 1.3. Only difference was I could down a J-10 without a problem and actually do well in an F-35B without fear of getting locked and insta-killed.

There are upto 60 players on a server not flying planes, ground AA is not deadly in it's current form maybe in armoured fury but vanilla?

Almost every time I hop in S2A and fire I get a kill. Almost every time I run in to a smart S2A user they fire and me and at least one missile hits (even in the J-10). Maybe I'm special but it seems to work just fine both ways for me. More importantly if you're not a moron and you don't sit idle in the S2A making yourself a huge target for the pilot it does in fact work quite well. However I still agree I'd like to see S2A boosted even more and not because of 1.12 missiles but rather because I enjoy the extra challenge and balance it brings which essentially would wipe newbie pilots out of the sky.

I've suggested before reduce J10 armour (one AA ground or air = dead plane) make Dalian China Base cappable. Ok it won't fix it for Colony and maybe the top 1% of pilots as he has stated previously, but then when your that good what would.

I thought you said S2A didn't work? Oh that's right it does and you know it but thanks for contradicting yourself. Air to air doesn't even hit the J-10 99% of the time so that's hardly a viable solution. Making Dalian cappable won't help either. On maps like Wake 2007 I never lose my base because I'm always keeping a close eye on it and within 5 seconds of it going neutral I'm strafing it and dropping bombs thus killing the offenders. Plus even when my airfield does get capped I manage to spent the rest of the game very wisely using my cannon ammo and can get another 30 kills or more with a single load of ammo.

Sorry Planewhore but you being a great pilot doesn't mean your opinion counts more than anyone else's in fact if anything it counts less

Wrong. My high level of experience with aviation from all patches makes me the perfect person to get airplane balance advice from. Even more so because I've proven time and time again that I have no issues calling for NERFS on things that I play and enjoy using but I feel are unbalanced (that includes the PKM, medics, airplanes in general and of course the J-10_.

the entire balance issue of the J10 has to be changed with the full game dynamic in mind.

Yes because we're much better off with a horrible lopsided airforce than one that is equal for the teams. But fact is pilots will dogfight and the F-35B will stand a good chance with 1.12 A2A missiles to back them up. You do realize that my W/L ratio on China is 15:1 right? You do also realize I get 65-100+ kills every single round I play a J-10 right? You do also realize I have yet to be shot down once in a J-10 since the 1.3 patch right? I was shot down a few times during the 1.12 patch but that must've been a fluke right? What does that do to your supposed total game balance? I'll tell you what it does - it ruins it. The 1.12 missiles like it or not will mostly resolve that because the F-35B won't be instant fodder which allows them to fight back in an offensive fashion much more effectively.

I understand why 1.2 was unpopular amongst pilots but it made for a better game for those on the ground as the enemy pilot now had a chance of nailing the superior opponent and subsquently he was then unable to dominate as effectively.

Actually 1.2 was POPULAR with pilots. I never saw the airfield so crowded as I did during the 1.2 patches. Why? Simple. The newbie pilots who would've been shot down in a heart beat in 1.12 now actually stood a great chance to down the most experienced pilots with little or no input or skill required. It opened aircraft to the masses. But you are right about one thing, this left the uber pilots who had mastered aviation less able to dominate but it was for a very unfair reason.

I know this has been covered before but I suspect a lot of ground pounders put forward a view in threads like this get told they know fluff all and go away with the tail between their legs and off to merry Karkland and campaign for infantry mode

I've got a 5 SPM with infantry on my medic and I kick plenty of *** and as both an aviator, driver and medic I can tell you right now that easy mode dos not appeal to me in the slightest and you can bet your *** I'll continue to play REAL MENS Battlefield 2 version rather than running off to carebear land like some *****.

[colony]

Re: Easiest way for DICE to fix the J-10 imbalance

good pilots know alot about the different planes in bf2, as such their opinions are more valid than anyone elses.
most of the comments made about planes recently are nerf the j10, make it slower blah blah, but the fact is most of those comments come from nubs. its blatently only the f35 that was having the trouble. i also saw very few people mention the f18 as being more of a missile dodger than the j10. so why did these people not complain about the f18 also ? well they either know **** all, or they are keeping quiet about their favourite usmc plane.

Because a good pilot in F18 against a good pilot in J10 will get rolled by J10 everytime. No jet is comparable to the J10.

[zipp0r]

Re: Easiest way for DICE to fix the J-10 imbalance

Oh come off it Zip, as I recall your biggest gripe about 1.2 was the fact that some n00b could shoot you down. Anyway wondering off the point....

It's pretty clear Dice are not going to spend any sort of time on this so a quick fix is all we're going to get. I can't imagine that EA would actually admit that 1.2 thru 1.3 made things worse and by rolling back that would look stupid, mind thinking about it ....:)

way off the point

i want you to tell my why the input of a ****ty pilot is relevant.... its clear to most that alot of the "karkand" players want nerfs because theyre not willing/able to learn how to use things. like the j10 turns too fast and they loose sight of it and are too stupid to work out where its going so they can get right behind it again and kill it while its vunerable.
so again, tell me how their opinions are even the slightest bit valid.

[colony]

Re: Easiest way for DICE to fix the J-10 imbalance

I treat missile hit detection issues as a bug, which I hope DICE will adress with the same seriousness as CTD. This is why I dont feel the need to adress J10s nor F18s missile issues. Thing is, they arent even the only jets having the issue. Im more concerned about balance in maneuverability because maneuverability = attack oppurtunity. And this is a balance issue, not a bug.

That is what I thought at first too, that its a bug. But it seems this is what DICE Canada wanted. They wanted the A2A missiles to not be as deadly as SAMs, which is why there is 2 sets of codes.

[zipp0r]

Re: Easiest way for DICE to fix the J-10 imbalance

Because a good pilot in F18 against a good pilot in J10 will get rolled by J10 everytime. No jet is comparable to the J10.

disagree

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Easiest way for DICE to fix the J-10 imbalance

That is what I thought at first too, that its a bug. But it seems this is what DICE Canada wanted. They wanted the A2A missiles to not be as deadly as SAMs, which is why there is 2 sets of codes.

Theres more. Theres definitely one set for the USMC planes, "Sidewinders". Theres definitely ones for MEC "Archers", now, Im confused, theres 3 sets of IGLAs total, plus GROUSE, which is IGLA... That makes 4. WTF? Needless to say STINGER and SeaSparrow are also STA. One for Stinger and one for Essex. So you may start speculating on the issue, if SideWinders are screwed up and Archers are not. So if DICE really wanted to do something with different missiles, differently, somewhere they screwed up in a major way.

Im going to check some missile stats today and Ill get back here a bit later if I find something different/interesting.

[colony]

Re: Easiest way for DICE to fix the J-10 imbalance

disagree

wanna put a bet on it?

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Easiest way for DICE to fix the J-10 imbalance

wanna put a bet on it?

Uh oh! Colony has 10 bucks ready to go on PayPal!

[colony]

Re: Easiest way for DICE to fix the J-10 imbalance

LoL I'd put $50 on this one man. You may have a chance taking me down if im in an F35, but me in a J10....:laugh: , you dont want to go against me in that.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Easiest way for DICE to fix the J-10 imbalance

LoL I'd put $50 on this one man. You may have a chance taking me down if im in an F35, but me in a J10....:laugh: , you dont want to go against me in that.

I heard about a guy who owns J10s with F35Bs using superior tactics of "sneak approach"!:nod: I heard PlaneWhore was smoked by him and all...

[jakswan]

Re: Easiest way for DICE to fix the J-10 imbalance

Are you implying that you're god or something? How could infantry possibly know what is happening in the sky? I'll tell you right now in 1.12 I spent 10x the amount dogfighting that I do in 1.3. Only difference was I could down a J-10 without a problem and actually do well in an F-35B without fear of getting locked and insta-killed.

Did I say I was infantry? I'm not proclaiming I'm a super pilot like you oh great one but I can and do fly. We've done this all before Planewhore and your vid showed A1 bombing skill.

Almost every time I hop in S2A and fire I get a kill. Almost every time I run in to a smart S2A user they fire and me and at least one missile hits (even in the J-10). Maybe I'm special but it seems to work just fine both ways for me. More importantly if you're not a moron and you don't sit idle in the S2A making yourself a huge target for the pilot it does in fact work quite well. However I still agree I'd like to see S2A boosted even more and not because of 1.12 missiles but rather because I enjoy the extra challenge and balance it brings which essentially would wipe newbie pilots out of the sky.

Well heck I must be better then I thought as despite prolly holding a very dismal 15-1 k/d ratio over the past few months in a plane I think the last 100 times I've been killed I'd guess S2A accounted for six of my deaths (does not include AF)

I thought you said S2A didn't work? Oh that's right it does and you know it but thanks for contradicting yourself. Air to air doesn't even hit the J-10 99% of the time so that's hardly a viable solution. Making Dalian cappable won't help either. On maps like Wake 2007 I never lose my base because I'm always keeping a close eye on it and within 5 seconds of it going neutral I'm strafing it and dropping bombs thus killing the offenders. Plus even when my airfield does get capped I manage to spent the rest of the game very wisely using my cannon ammo and can get another 30 kills or more with a single load of ammo.

Nerfing the armour by at least half by definition doubles the effectiveness of anything thrown at a J10, F35 cannons, A2A, S2A. I've played Wake a fair bit and the capture radius on that flag is large. Normally I play with a few mates on VOIP and we're not that stupid as too all join hands and do a merry dance together.

Wrong. My high level of experience with aviation from all patches makes me the perfect person to get airplane balance advice from. Even more so because I've proven time and time again that I have no issues calling for NERFS on things that I play and enjoy using but I feel are unbalanced (that includes the PKM, medics, airplanes in general and of course the J-10_.

I admire your charisma and maybe your motives are fine and dandy but 1.12 made you untouchable, I think you said words like ‘never/rare shot down prior to 1.2 by a pilot’ something like that, I can look back and quote you..

Yes because we're much better off with a horrible lopsided airforce than one that is equal for the teams. But fact is pilots will dogfight and the F-35B will stand a good chance with 1.12 A2A missiles to back them up. You do realize that my W/L ratio on China is 15:1 right? You do also realize I get 65-100+ kills every single round I play a J-10 right? You do also realize I have yet to be shot down once in a J-10 since the 1.3 patch right? I was shot down a few times during the 1.12 patch but that must've been a fluke right? What does that do to your supposed total game balance? I'll tell you what it does - it ruins it. The 1.12 missiles like it or not will mostly resolve that because the F-35B won't be instant fodder which allows them to fight back in an offensive fashion much more effectively.

Where did I say the J10 wasn’t an issue? All I’m saying is a revert to 1.12 is not the solution.

Actually 1.2 was POPULAR with pilots. I never saw the airfield so crowded as I did during the 1.2 patches. Why? Simple. The newbie pilots who would've been shot down in a heart beat in 1.12 now actually stood a great chance to down the most experienced pilots with little or no input or skill required. It opened aircraft to the masses. But you are right about one thing, this left the uber pilots who had mastered aviation less able to dominate but it was for a very unfair reason.

1.2 was not popular on the servers I played it was never so easy to get a plane. I’d get shot down more but I’d guess my k/d was around seven, a n00b pilot would be negative k/d imho, it cuts both ways.

I've got a 5 SPM with infantry on my medic and I kick plenty of *** and as both an aviator, driver and medic I can tell you right now that easy mode dos not appeal to me in the slightest and you can bet your *** I'll continue to play REAL MENS Battlefield 2 version rather than running off to carebear land like some *****.

That’s great for you.

You’re a star Planewhore I enjoy your rantings and you raise a valid issue but let me ask you as an above average pilot in say a MIG / F35 how many times would I have shot you down in 1.12, 1.2 and then 1.3 over say 20 dogfights.

I’ll put forward a suggestion for you

1.12 – none
1.2 – maybe 3? Perhaps it was that easy six, but never ten it still took skill.
1.3 – Not many one I don’t know depends if you have the F35 I guess

Now I’ll be kind on me and say if a pilot with 30,000 kills can’t take you out then there is nothing else on the server to stop you and this was the entire reason for 1.2 as I recall.

way off the point

i want you to tell my why the input of a ****ty pilot is relevant.... its clear to most that alot of the "karkand" players want nerfs because theyre not willing/able to learn how to use things. like the j10 turns too fast and they loose sight of it and are too stupid to work out where its going so they can get right behind it again and kill it while its vunerable.
so again, tell me how their opinions are even the slightest bit valid.

Do you want chance to withdraw that comment? Are you seriously saying that aircraft balance has no bearing on the outcome of the game, that the 60 other players should sit back and say fair enough let the pilots decide.

Great chopper pilots you want forty missiles and treble armour, well heck I don't fly choppers so I'm not entitled to an opinion on the subject.

[IDC-Shorly]

Re: Easiest way for DICE to fix the J-10 imbalance

Indeed, only a few pilots would engage each other, and great pilots became untouchable, while less than great either relied on the jet or they just got mowed down. BUT, this fix that PW proposes is SIMPLE, FAST, EFFECTIVE and it creates a better game than we have right now. I agree that perfect balance comes with tweaking through the entire air-system. However, until then, something that we could play and have fun with, has to be implemented.

Would only a few pilots engage eachother? Here I am!

I engage every pilot I see, at every f****** opportunity.

What I realize as well as you post, is that it is not likely I will ground those bastards.

Why I direct my anger at you. You claerely post that any JSF-pilot wants the JSF to be able to ground the J10 easily. All I said was that I want the J10 to be superior, so that I can easily use the pilots mistakes to my superior advantage. I really find you stupid after that post, unnless you pretend to respect me as a pilot.

I am among those who really want the J10 to be as it is, since whenever I take down one of these, I have predicted the pilots mistake. This is why I prefer the JSF, this is why I find airfights to be interesting.

The J10 can easily be as it is, but as long as referred teamplay in J10's concists of only raping, then I really feel that I have my point.

If China/PLA have no UCB, I could respect it. Even though on certain maps they dont have, I still fight with the handicap of players with no brain. I complain more about the non-skilled players flying the Blackhawk, TOTALLY making sure my team will never get to shore, since he states his right public, to fly this helicopter.

My point is the statpadding the J10's draw on the non-skilled noobs, making the rape parties to be an instant happening every spawn, since those with skills/knowledge never gets to reach what they could have rescued their team with...Just doing what they have leared.

It should be as in singelplayer. If a player with higher level recommends the driverseat, they also should have got it.

The M-95 just states the total ignorance of the developers.

I dont want the J10 nerfed. I just want the F-35 NOT to be a freefrag.

Is this difficult to understand?

Planewhore and other J10 whores, please, never try make me think you are decent pilots. There is a reason you chose your jet of choice, and that is easily predicted as superioritiy. You never can, nor will, manage to do the F-35, aka "the coffin", like pro-pilots like Metallica or others.

What I hope more then anything is that DICE don't nerf the J10 down to a level that makes the gay J10-pilots switch to the JSF.

Please give me time to practice, please give time to down those arrogant J10 whoes. I normally do, but seldomly against the real pros of the statpadders paradise, aka J10.

F-35 is art of flying. J10 noobs favorite of it's speed.

Dont EVER accuse me of wanting the J10 to be nerfed. Dont ever accuse me of telling the J10 is to be grounded by a noob.

Any challenge, thx, here I am.

[XmetallicaXguitarstX]

Re: Easiest way for DICE to fix the J-10 imbalance

Yeah..

I WANT the J-10 to still be the superior jet...


I like that challenge.. To me it is more FUN to have to think about how to kill the really good jet with the ****ty jet, as opposed to being IN the really good jet, and locking, firing, and forgeting.. killing the ****ty jet at insane angles.

KEEP the J-10's turning radius tighter... keep it heavier so it can go through turns faster.. Keep all of that..


But FFS.... make it so that I at least have SOME chance of dodging the missles..

The way it is now, there are stages...

First stage is, keep the J-10 from seeing you. If he sees you.. next stage... break the lock as often as you can. Next stage... he shoots his missles, you have no choice but to flare.. and you HOPE he just spammed all 6 missles so you can get them all at once with flares... and the last stage... you are OUT of flares, depleted afterburners... and the J-10 is right behind you locking on to you. What do you do? You have 2 options... Bail... or go down with the Jet.

I really don't think it should be that way on the last step...