Easiest way for DICE to fix the J-10 imbalance

Re: Easiest way for DICE to fix the J-10 imbalance

Shorly I know you think you know everything but you clearly don't. I had a big post typed up with counter points but I deleted it and decided to make this as short and sweet as possible. I have a big fan club and collection of stalkers who would love nothing more than to shoot me down. Yet somehow I have not been shot down in the J-10 since the 1.2 patch and every single game in a J-10 I go 60-100 kills guaranteed. These are not opinions or speculations but rather cold hard fact. Nothing can stop me in a J-10 and if you think that's balance then I have nothing more to say to you. I'm not going to bother arguing the same indisuptable facts over and over again.

I have never said I know everything about neither jets nor this game. I honestly would like to ground you, so I could have been in that fanclub of yours.

What I think is the biggest difference between you and me, is that I plan my aviating for what will support my team best. This costs me lots of deaths, but I take them as well as I in fact, take that jet, obligating me to do what I have to do.

One or two highly skilled pilots in J10 can easily control a whole server on certain maps. I'm not arguing that you are doing this probably best of all. But as well I dont respect the rapetactic as anything else then pure statspadding.

You can find me at "Battlefield.no," or one or another "TV2" server if you want to prove your words.

We should be careful whenever pointing to a code change and stating "thats an easy change just revert it". As people have said the change went in to help prevent friendly fire and tune some other things. If we did a pure reversion of the code then things would shift back to complaints on getting team kill penalties for AA missiles.

So then we would require a partial reversion, which would be a new form that combines old and new code. So really it would be a completely new code change. Given the nature of game code the more 'simple' adjustments that you try to make the riskier things get.

Our focus is to get 1.4 release so that the stability improvements can provide a more reliable experience. Though I have seen a number of arguments placing the J-10 imbalance above CTD's internally we really want to fix stability first.

From my point of view you have by the maps already made the PLA-forces to be to aggressive compared to the US need to be same as well. All those deadzones for the Essex-gun makes it complete useless against any skilled pilot.

The brilliant idea of putting a AA on the arty-island on Dalian Plant also made it impossible for transports to go east.

This combination and the fact that tons of armor are waiting at the shore, makes it even more difficult, even for choppers. Then ofcourse boats end up as freefrags.

The long spawntime on US hardware on carriers, combined with PLA's fast respawntime, makes a one-man baseraper able to hold down the whole carrier by oneself.

Make the flaers work on the JSF, dont complain over jets that never have been in air for more then one time, by the one unskilled player spawning next to it. Maybe even not have his "Airial Service Ribbon."

The problem with the JSF is it never gets in the air. The J10 has cover, and AA's all over, with the best range in all directions.

I strongly believe whats said in the intro is tru: "We're just slaughtered."

Btw: The Stinger and the Sidewinder both has liquid nitrogen-cooling, to make the sensor able to track at longer distances. Also containg a two-color tracking-system, that makes them able to track both IR and UV when locked to target. This to ensure they will track target, and not the fleares, which only deploys rays in the IR-spectrum. Like this, the extra heatsource which coolers acctually emit, would make them attrackt missiles harder. But then they should be able to track at longer distances. As it is today, J10 has no heatsignature, locks better then the JSF, and dont even need flaeres to evade missiles.

Seriosly, calling hsm for noobish is ridicilous. All people have to do is fly like in the coffin. Movement becomes the skill, and not only luck or beeing in the J10.

Please, dont nerf the J10, neither overadjust the JSF. Just make the flaeres work, so they acctually have a function.

Re: Easiest way for DICE to fix the J-10 imbalance

j-10 was hard for me at the beggining of the game now its really easy for me

Re: Easiest way for DICE to fix the J-10 imbalance

The easiest way for DICE to fix anything would be for them to quit
and hand the game over to another company..

Re: Easiest way for DICE to fix the J-10 imbalance

We should be careful whenever pointing to a code change and stating "thats an easy change just revert it". As people have said the change went in to help prevent friendly fire and tune some other things. If we did a pure reversion of the code then things would shift back to complaints on getting team kill penalties for AA missiles.

So then we would require a partial reversion, which would be a new form that combines old and new code. So really it would be a completely new code change. Given the nature of game code the more 'simple' adjustments that you try to make the riskier things get.

Our focus is to get 1.4 release so that the stability improvements can provide a more reliable experience. Though I have seen a number of arguments placing the J-10 imbalance above CTD's internally we really want to fix stability first.

Oh lets be honest the entire history of patchs has been nothing short of a disgrace. 1.01 caused a linux server crash so everyone had to uninstall, 1.12 left the Jet balance in a sorry state, 1.2 fixed it but made it messy the 1.21 (as I recall) hotfix said in the readme something about fixing AA going round tree's and towers but left the J10 so overpowered in isolation the plane is totally over the top.

Ground AA was made worse since 1.2 and to add insult to injury now takes three missiles to down a plane what the?

I'm literally begging you to keep any fix as simple as possible as anything more exotic than changing one or two variables will more than likely make things a lot worse.

I have zero confidence in your companys ability to support a mainstream multiplayer game. That said I do admire the feedback it's at least something.

Re: Easiest way for DICE to fix the J-10 imbalance

Yes, revert the missles. I think, now that I have more exp, I can make those missles hit in 1.12

REVERT IT!

At least put it in the beta

Re: Easiest way for DICE to fix the J-10 imbalance

blah blah blah...

Shorly I know you think you know everything but you clearly don't. I had a big post typed up with counter points but I deleted it and decided to make this as short and sweet as possible. I have a big fan club and collection of stalkers who would love nothing more than to shoot me down. Yet somehow I have not been shot down in the J-10 since the 1.2 patch and every single game in a J-10 I go 60-100 kills guaranteed. These are not opinions or speculations but rather cold hard fact. Nothing can stop me in a J-10 and if you think that's balance then I have nothing more to say to you. I'm not going to bother arguing the same indisuptable facts over and over again.

[XmetallicaXguitarstX]

Re: Easiest way for DICE to fix the J-10 imbalance

Excuse me? I fly the F-35B coffin just fine and can do quite well in it. That's me though and I'd rather not put myself in that disadvantageous situation (most people feel the same I'm sure won't admit it). Don't compare me with Metallica either because both he and I know who's the better pilot. Don't get me wrong because Metallica is a very skilled pilot and far better with helicopters than I am but every round me and Metallica flew together (with Ventrilo mind you) in airplanes I had about a 40%-100% higher score every single round. Again not dissing on Metallica but as far as I'm concerned my skill is superior to his in a plane (at least in combat effectiveness and hitting ground targets) and more to the point Metallica is enough of a down to earth player to admit it.

Yeah I do know you are better than me, but we were flying J-10's, and I couldn't kill jack **** back then air-to-ground in a J-10 because I didn't have much exp. in the J-10. I still don't, but I am way better than I was now. In an F-35B now, I haven't seen many people that are as efficient as me killing ground targets in a short time. Especially on wake.

I haven't really ever seen you fly the JSF too much. Only in those videos you made a long time ago, and I know for a fact you have improved a billion times over.

LOL... and I am really good at getting away from J-10's now. But I am not too great at tracking planes.

I never claimed to be the best, or even anywhere close to it, because I know damn well there are tons of people that I know, that are way better than me. You and colony definately are the best pilots of this game.

What I am really good at though, is playing wake in a JSF. With these BS missles, I still only manage to get shot down 0-1 times per round. Maybe a couple more if it is a bad day.

I mean, hell.. I could fly the J-10, and maintain a 50 K/D ratio, but I choose not to, because I feel cheap when I fly it.. that, and it accelerates too slow for my tastes.

Re: Easiest way for DICE to fix the J-10 imbalance

There's no reason why they can't put this into a beta. The A2A TKs is a much better disadvantage than what exists now, and that's what you have to look at. It partially makes sense anyway and will teach all these spam amateurs to use cannons. I can't believe how much excuse they're created around this.

Re: Easiest way for DICE to fix the J-10 imbalance

Ahh finally DICE responds.

We should be careful whenever pointing to a code change and stating "thats an easy change just revert it". As people have said the change went in to help prevent friendly fire and tune some other things. If we did a pure reversion of the code then things would shift back to complaints on getting team kill penalties for AA missiles.

Why not just remove the friendly fire abilities of AA missiles just like claymores and mines in that case? Though even with teamkills I'd gladly take AA teamkills and have balanced aircraft (I still get AA teamkills either way!).

So then we would require a partial reversion, which would be a new form that combines old and new code. So really it would be a completely new code change. Given the nature of game code the more 'simple' adjustments that you try to make the riskier things get.

I think you're overcomplicating things as you people down at DICE seem to like to do. It's old proven code with new code that also happens to be tested and proven to work. So rather than put a negative spin on it I'd say it's much more fitting to call it the "cream of the crop" of the code.

Our focus is to get 1.4 release so that the stability improvements can provide a more reliable experience. Though I have seen a number of arguments placing the J-10 imbalance above CTD's internally we really want to fix stability first.

Stability is important I'll admit but plenty of players (myself included) experience absolutely no crashing, Furthermore I've already heard positive feedback from players that the crashing is almost gone. So really what've you got left?

I STRONGLY urge you to consider just "testing" the old 1.12 A2A code in the next version of the beta and see how it goes over with players. That is the whole point of a beta isn't it? Because I think I speak for everyone when I say leaving the air to air balance as is till another patch is unacceptable (if another patch will ever come that it is). We've suffered long enough and we as paying customers demand balance that is fair for all players. Every fiber of my piloting experience tells me that 1.12 is the way to go for an easy solution to at least bandaid the current problem.

Have one of your coders whip it out in about an hour and then slap it on the next beta. What's the harm?

[Talus]

Re: Easiest way for DICE to fix the J-10 imbalance

So this does leave J10 rebalancing open for future patches

Re: Easiest way for DICE to fix the J-10 imbalance

We should be careful whenever pointing to a code change and stating "thats an easy change just revert it". As people have said the change went in to help prevent friendly fire and tune some other things. If we did a pure reversion of the code then things would shift back to complaints on getting team kill penalties for AA missiles.

So then we would require a partial reversion, which would be a new form that combines old and new code. So really it would be a completely new code change. Given the nature of game code the more 'simple' adjustments that you try to make the riskier things get.

Our focus is to get 1.4 release so that the stability improvements can provide a more reliable experience. Though I have seen a number of arguments placing the J-10 imbalance above CTD's internally we really want to fix stability first.

Re: Easiest way for DICE to fix the J-10 imbalance

@Chris_Redfield: Ok, then I got you a little wrong, mixed you up a little by a post of PW.

BullShark is a great pilot and way back in the day when I wasn't nearly as good as I am now he managed to chase me in an F-35B for an entire round of Dalian Plant and finally he shot me down towards the end of the round once after working me down with cannons. If that had happened in 1.3 instead of actually escaping my attacks and being able to fight back again and again I would've out maneuvered him with a J-10 and kill him with 2 missiles every time. It was in fact the early patches skill factor that allowed BullShark to effectively harrass me while in a J-10 and thus slow down my killing. If he had choosen to camp me afterwards I'm sure I would've been effectively out of business and rightfully so.


Excuse me? I fly the F-35B coffin just fine and can do quite well in it. That's me though and I'd rather not put myself in that disadvantageous situation (most people feel the same I'm sure won't admit it). Don't compare me with Metallica either because both he and I know who's the better pilot. Don't get me wrong because Metallica is a very skilled pilot and far better with helicopters than I am but every round me and Metallica flew together (with Ventrilo mind you) in airplanes I had about a 40%-100% higher score every single round. Again not dissing on Metallica but as far as I'm concerned my skill is superior to his in a plane (at least in combat effectiveness and hitting ground targets) and more to the point Metallica is enough of a down to earth player to admit it.


I'm sorry Shorly but I just can't accept that. If you want the J-10 to remain the same more likely than not you enjoy whoring it for the feelings of air superiority it gives you. According to your statistics you spend most of your time on the Wake 2007 map which raises an immediate red flag for a J-10 whore. Although I cannot see your China/USMC distribution on Wake 2007 I strongly suspect you spend a fair share of your time on Wake 2007 in the cockpit of a J-10.


Zero in 1.12 when skill mattered of course because I'm just that good. Getting in to the never-miss AA missiles land there is no way I can make an accurate prediction but the one thing I will say is that the player with the J-10 will most likely win every engagement. Does that sound "balanced" to you?

Sorry if me being a skilled pilot is so hard for you to believe but I can do the same thing in every other powerful vehicle so why not an airplane? Of course I'm not blowing smoke out of my a$$ either because I've got the statistics to prove it. Just take for example a tank or APC. On maps like Mashtuur and Sharqi (Karkand too, but that's often times too easy...) I easily go 60-70 kills in 10-15 minutes and 0-1 death just about every other round. Does that seem right to you that all those AT players, TOW missiles, C4 packs, other tanks, other APC and helicopters can fail to kill me an entire round just because I'm good at what I do? It applies to all vehicles because of the way that they can augment a skilled players abilities. Of course you can't do the same thing on infantry but comparing infantry to vehicles is of course apples to oranges.

The fact still remains I am undefeated in a J-10 and if you stick me in the cockpit of one of these bad boys I absolutely guarantee you a crushing victory against the enemy team. Don't believe me? Go right ahead and check my various profiles and you'll notice that my Wake 2007 W/L record is something like 30 wins for every single loss. Only other maps that compare to that is other maps like Dalian Plant and Dragon Valley and it doesn't take an Einstien to discover the common thread.

Why you accuse me of flying the J10? Are 7:1 in the coffin due to baserapers and teamkillers to hard to believe?

Many things you know about me. If you check my Army stats you will clearly see that I play US most of the time. Acctually, on the servers I play most, there are teamswitch, and I lamejoin to US as often as I can.

I'm not nearly as good in the J10 as in the JSF. Flying a lot in the JSF makes me feel the J10 to be slow in turning and climbing. Still, I guess I would do better in a J10 then you against me in a F-35. Even you fakenicking to practice the JSF public without getting owned by pubbers.

As you clearly have stated, you wont allow your enemy get in air. As you may know, there spawns 29 smacktards and noobs on that carrier (all experienced players swithch to MEC/PLA since they are clearly better equipped). When these 29 spawns at the exact same location, then the one closest to the JSF takes it. This makes a noob grab the most valuable tool in most cases. Beeing a freefrag, making his team never get that jet back to air. On Dalian Plant PLA has the advantage of letting non-aviators spawn farther north. In this way you will not have the complete noobs gabbing the jets. This is exactly what happens on any carrier. Then ofcourse there is me, wwaiting for jet, and ofcourse, two men lamejoining to PLA to have a J10.

Being good in a jet is MUCH MORE then kdr. You simply cant become a better dogfighter by raping them on the carrier. You can rape well, but that's about it.

Unfortunately, a JSF-pilot will not dogfight a J10 since the J10 can overrun and outmanouver the JSF. Therefore in most cases I send a message to that pilot: "Get the hell of my teams carrier." This is done by the one missile that the JSF can send to the J10 before complete evading is done by the J10.

I gurantee you that if you play against me on "Dragon Valley," "Dalian Plant" or "Wake Island," then your amount of kills will be be reduced to maximum half of what you normally get.

I dont do that helipad-rape as US. Sure I do it occasionally, but that is not my primary target, since that chopper easily goes down in one run with the machingun, making it a "no threath."

If you try keep up that high level of raping, then you are so beiing grounded. This happens all time to me. I find the highscoring rapers, join the server and kick them to the ground. It simply isn't possible to do that as long as the rapers get countered.

Dogfighting between the JSF and J10 really isn't to be discussed at all. We all know the result of it.

What is a matter, is in a gamesituuation, the J10's high and aggressive style, which makes it a possible target, and it does become it to.Then there are acctually fights going on, with the F-35 as the winner.

Being a pilot is more about doing whats best for your team. I dont concider knowing where there will be a gathering of freefrags, waiting at chopperspawns at carrier. That sure will give you 10 kills in a ok run, but still isn't concidered to be skilled as a pilot. (By no means PW, I dont concider you no-skilled, I just state that please dont refer to kdr as a skillindicator).

Doing the JSF is about getting down chopper, shooting out AA, and bomb tank/transport where team is getting to shore. Then engaging J10 to make them focus on else then fragging.

It's quite typical to see J10's ignore the precensy of the JSF, then, after grounding the same mid-skilled pilot twice, he will have no frags on the ground, looking for that JSF-pilot to tell him who's the boss. This is acctually the job of the JSF.

You will not make a 70-0 round against me getting the JSF initial on Wake or Dalian Plant.

Re: Easiest way for DICE to fix the J-10 imbalance

They changed the air-to-air missles in 1,12 becouse they missed a lot and hit frindly jets/choppers. THey wont revert but I still agree with the PlaneWhore...

Re: Easiest way for DICE to fix the J-10 imbalance

Do you want chance to withdraw that comment? Are you seriously saying that aircraft balance has no bearing on the outcome of the game, that the 60 other players should sit back and say fair enough let the pilots decide.

Great chopper pilots you want forty missiles and treble armour, well heck I don't fly choppers so I'm not entitled to an opinion on the subject.

no and no i did not sayjet balance doesnt affect the game.
people that dont fly alot, know each jet very well, how S2A are effective and have no skill at all.. have no right to an opinion in balancing aircraft.

it's like your mom telling a racing driving to do all sorts of tweaks to his car when she doesnt know jack ****, but just because she can drive a car..albeit not very well.. shes knows what shes on about ?

Re: Easiest way for DICE to fix the J-10 imbalance

Zero in 1.12 when skill mattered of course because I'm just that good. Getting in to the never-miss AA missiles land there is no way I can make an accurate prediction but the one thing I will say is that the player with the J-10 will most likely win every engagement. Does that sound "balanced" to you?

Sorry if me being a skilled pilot is so hard for you to believe but I can do the same thing in every other powerful vehicle so why not an airplane? Of course I'm not blowing smoke out of my a$$ either because I've got the statistics to prove it. Just take for example a tank or APC. On maps like Mashtuur and Sharqi (Karkand too, but that's often times too easy...) I easily go 60-70 kills in 10-15 minutes and 0-1 death just about every other round. Does that seem right to you that all those AT players, TOW missiles, C4 packs, other tanks, other APC and helicopters can fail to kill me an entire round just because I'm good at what I do? It applies to all vehicles because of the way that they can augment a skilled players abilities. Of course you can't do the same thing on infantry but comparing infantry to vehicles is of course apples to oranges.

I have played against some great chopper pilots on maps like Sharqi they'll get 40-1 k/d ratios, but I always feel that with a bit of teamplay with a few of my mates we can do something. It might just mean we scare them off slow them down but we'll get them in the end, there are numerous tools at our disposal to that end.

Again very good tankers (normally I find tankers on their own easy to deal with, it's ones that have a got a squad around the tank are deadly) I can do something. There is no way that you have a sustainable 100-1 k/d ratio in a tank or APC btw.

What your saying is in 1.12 a pilot with 30000 kills (and their not baserpae kills I'd say at least half are air kills) can't do anything to stop you. If I can't stop you there is no one else on the server that can. Sorry Planewhore this is a game, I play it for fun and that is not fun.

I watched your Oman vid in 1.12 if I was on the server that day I could not have stopped you, if I got the MIG up in 1.3 you'd not be able to play like that I can assure you and in 1.2 you'd have to have changed your style of play totally.

This issue is not about pilots it is about the game of BF2 and the effect that balance in the air has on the entire game, 1.12 was unbalanced, heck I reckon I could get a 40-1 k/d ratio if I wanted in 1.12.

The fact still remains I am undefeated in a J-10 and if you stick me in the cockpit of one of these bad boys I absolutely guarantee you a crushing victory against the enemy team. Don't believe me? Go right ahead and check my various profiles and you'll notice that my Wake 2007 W/L record is something like 30 wins for every single loss. Only other maps that compare to that is other maps like Dalian Plant and Dragon Valley and it doesn't take an Einstien to discover the common thread.

You miss my point I'll make it again, on Wake with a few of my mates we would use an F35 to deliver a SL to Airfield and then spawn. We would be able to do something to stop you or at least be able to try. On Dalian plant we don't have that option.

The J10 is a joy to fly and personally I'd like to keep the plane itself like it is. If I'm US and up against decent ish pilots and I know it's going to be a mare but take away at least half that armour and the majority of times I would not have that much of a problem, well at least half the problem I did have.