[xXx]gh0st's view on Infantry Only (IO)

[~WPN~Major Ursa]

Re: [xXx]gh0st's view on Infantry Only (IO)

Personally, the issue boils down to this.

People who truly play the game for the fun and not for the stats, really do care about stats and under the current theory, IO ranked servers could be a very bad thing.

Why you say? Well lets look at it.
I play for the fun. I truly don't care about the stats UNTIL I get one shotted by some uber unlock that is 15,000 points away for me. Now that is one more kind of fun sponge for me. I paid just as much money for the game as the next guy and just because I don't have the time to play over an hour every day, I get shafted. So, in a way, I DO care about stats.

Has anyone thought that maybe, just maybe, that EA/DICE might be ready to do away with the unlocks being tied to points? I did note that EA/DICE was going to allow unlocks to be used in mods again. What if the final patch made all unlocks available, yet kept the ranks, ribbons and medals? This option would make IO ranked servers seem less like the "padder's palace" now wouldn't it?

If EA/DICE had just made all of the weapons available from the start, then the ranks, ribbons and medals would have been a wonderful "new" feature that would have enhanced the entire game and given everyone, from the casual gamer to the serious tourney player, something to work for and be proud to display.

I have had the game since day one and have less than 200 hours played. Between work, family and a whole lot of other real life issues, I doubt I will ever get all of the unlocks, let alone reach an officer's rank. The only time that bothers me is when I have a guy dead to rights and pump a whole clip into him only to have him turn around and one shot me with some BFG2000 or whatever that thing is.

Food for thought.

[itzasvo]

Re: [xXx]gh0st's view on Infantry Only (IO)

We wouldn't need infantry only boards if planes had to land back at the carrier or airstrip to be rearmed. Just flying over to get more bombs or missles is a joke. Make the planes land and sit there for 1 minute before they are fully rearmed again. That gives folks on the ground a chance to destroy them.

The air power assets are the only class of vehicle that so easily replenish their weapons.

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: [xXx]gh0st's view on Infantry Only (IO)

Vehicles only dominate if you let them dominate. I think the key factor that makes vehicles inferior overall to infantry is how obvious they are on the Battlefield. I don't die to tanks or APCs because I see them a mile away and I hear them coming. They can't follow me through tight alleyways and they even have difficulty killing me if I'm up close. Almost all of my deaths are from assault rifles and another small arms fire (with a spattering of grenades and claymores as well).

I don't die to airplanes because the way they attack and the areas they attack are extremely predictable. The only real unavoidable threat I find out of all the vehicles is being caught out in an area without cover by an attack helicopter. Even then when I'm advancing on an enemy position I can honestly say an attack chopper is the least of my worries (unless I'm in an APC that is).

Infantry is where the real power in a team is. Good medics are vital to kill other infantry, save tickets by revive dead teammates, and push up to flags and capture them. These good medics by the way can and do outscore both aircraft and armor on a regular basis. Excluding maybe Karkand I am almost never outscored by armor when I play my medic. Then you've got a couple good AT players with support for backup and rocket supply can crush any advancing armor force. A good situational awareness can nearly assure you that you don't die to aircraft, helicopters and armor. Finally, as long as you keep moving up forward and don't stagnate in a location you will never die to artillery aside from the unlucky spawn in to a location that is getting shelled.

Bottom line is IO mode is just a weak mode for weak players who want an easier game to play. I constantly say make it unranked because I know for a fact if it was unranked it'd be a huge flop because the only people who really want to play IO want to play it not because it's more fun but because it's an easier way to score high while playing infantry.

[AP_piano295]

Re: [xXx]gh0st's view on Infantry Only (IO)

Personally, the issue boils down to this.

People who truly play the game for the fun and not for the stats, really do care about stats and under the current theory, IO ranked servers could be a very bad thing.

Why you say? Well lets look at it.
I play for the fun. I truly don't care about the stats UNTIL I get one shotted by some uber unlock that is 15,000 points away for me. Now that is one more kind of fun sponge for me. I paid just as much money for the game as the next guy and just because I don't have the time to play over an hour every day, I get shafted. So, in a way, I DO care about stats.

Has anyone thought that maybe, just maybe, that EA/DICE might be ready to do away with the unlocks being tied to points? I did note that EA/DICE was going to allow unlocks to be used in mods again. What if the final patch made all unlocks available, yet kept the ranks, ribbons and medals? This option would make IO ranked servers seem less like the "padder's palace" now wouldn't it?

If EA/DICE had just made all of the weapons available from the start, then the ranks, ribbons and medals would have been a wonderful "new" feature that would have enhanced the entire game and given everyone, from the casual gamer to the serious tourney player, something to work for and be proud to display.

I have had the game since day one and have less than 200 hours played. Between work, family and a whole lot of other real life issues, I doubt I will ever get all of the unlocks, let alone reach an officer's rank. The only time that bothers me is when I have a guy dead to rights and pump a whole clip into him only to have him turn around and one shot me with some BFG2000 or whatever that thing is.

Food for thought.

What "uber" unlock would that be?

[-=KOF=-IVirusI]

Re: [xXx]gh0st's view on Infantry Only (IO)

We wouldn't need infantry only boards if planes had to land back at the carrier or airstrip to be rearmed. Just flying over to get more bombs or missles is a joke. Make the planes land and sit there for 1 minute before they are fully rearmed again. That gives folks on the ground a chance to destroy them.

The air power assets are the only class of vehicle that so easily replenish their weapons.

Im sorry but that idea would not work at all. You get the noobies waiting on the carrier and so you would crush them.... People would wait for you and m95 you out the cockpit.... you would be a sitting duck for enemy aircraft..... if a second aircraft went in to land there would be a chance he would crash into you as you sat on the runway...... vodniks, buggies would crash into you so.... the best way is the way it is right now..

[AP_piano295]

Re: [xXx]gh0st's view on Infantry Only (IO)

Vehicles only dominate if you let them dominate. I think the key factor that makes vehicles inferior overall to infantry is how obvious they are on the Battlefield. I don't die to tanks or APCs because I see them a mile away and I hear them coming. They can't follow me through tight alleyways and they even have difficulty killing me if I'm up close. Almost all of my deaths are from assault rifles and another small arms fire (with a spattering of grenades and claymores as well).

I don't die to airplanes because the way they attack and the areas they attack are extremely predictable. The only real unavoidable threat I find out of all the vehicles is being caught out in an area without cover by an attack helicopter. Even then when I'm advancing on an enemy position I can honestly say an attack chopper is the least of my worries (unless I'm in an APC that is).

Infantry is where the real power in a team is. Good medics are vital to kill other infantry, save tickets by revive dead teammates, and push up to flags and capture them. These good medics by the way can and do outscore both aircraft and armor on a regular basis. Excluding maybe Karkand I am almost never outscored by armor when I play my medic. Then you've got a couple good AT players with support for backup and rocket supply can crush any advancing armor force. A good situational awareness can nearly assure you that you don't die to aircraft. Finally, as long as you keep moving up forward and don't stagnate in a location you will never die to artillery aside from the unlucky spawn in to a location that is getting shelled.

Bottom line is IO mode is just a weak mode for weak players who want an easier game to play. I constantly say make it unranked because I know for a fact if it was unranked it'd be a huge flop because the only people who really want to play IO want to play it not because it's more fun but because it's an easier way to score high while playing infantry.

What if theyres no cover around??? the problem with vehicles is that it takes a realitively small ammount of skill to use them effectively (specifically armor) the average infantry has no way of fighting them. And even the infantry with the capability of combating vehicles is more likely then not to fail.

Vehicles are overpowered which is good it's how they should be a vehicle is more powerful than a person buut. Sometimes we get bored of being raped by that private in the tank that even the best medic might have a problem killing .

So IO is a way of getting a breather it's purely about skill a player who isnt the worse team will lose. Not the team with the J10. And walking around you dont get wasted by things you have no ability to fight back against. i.e. no arty no airplanes no choppers.

As far as stats are concerned...stfu stats dont matter so you can stop complaining about them. And if anything IO represents stats better it shows the best player in a round not the player who got to the tank first.

plane whore? who are you to say a plane can only attack in predictable patterns they can attack from any dirrection they please. As you do in your numerous videos.

[archanos]

Re: [xXx]gh0st's view on Infantry Only (IO)

i like the idea IO,ppl who complain are stupid and should go rant about somthing else,if u dont like it,dont play it(now is that hard?)oh and...whats really weird is i have never downladed the patch beta and yet some servers i have joined have IO,no vihicles,no commander...or somthing is new

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: [xXx]gh0st's view on Infantry Only (IO)

What if theyres no cover around??? the problem with vehicles is that it takes a realitively small ammount of skill to use them effectively (specifically armor)

Wrong. From personal experience, I cant get past 5:1 KDR in a tank, and usually struggle to maintain 3:1. Thing is I dont know how to use it. Many dont, most dont. It takes a lot of skill to use them effectively. But Armor and vehicles feed their operators kill list with stupid infantry. This you can observe in Karkand, where AT guys keep spawning at Hotel, which is also swarmed with medics.

the average infantry has no way of fighting them. And even the infantry with the capability of combating vehicles is more likely then not to fail.

1 AT does not equalize 1 Armor unit, unless hes got skills to equalize the situation. That being said, infantry has a LOT of tools to take care of an armor unit. However, stupidity, selfishness, pointhunger and whatnot cloud their vision.

Vehicles are overpowered which is good it's how they should be a vehicle is more powerful than a person buut. Sometimes we get bored of being raped by that private in the tank that even the best medic might have a problem killing .

Are you suggesting that a medic should be able to kill a tank?

If you have a problem with a tank, you spawn as AT, and not a medic. If youre pinned down, you choose an alternate spawnpoint. I dont see why is this concept so hard to understand?

So IO is a way of getting a breather it's purely about skill a player who isnt the worse team will lose. Not the team with the J10. And walking around you dont get wasted by things you have no ability to fight back against. i.e. no arty no airplanes no choppers.

Complete and utter bollocks. I am amazed how you were able to write this up?!

As far as stats are concerned...stfu stats dont matter so you can stop complaining about them. And if anything IO represents stats better it shows the best player in a round not the player who got to the tank first.

Best players waste tanks for breakfast. Best players dont die to tanks in the first place. I dont see the logic in your statement. Youre talking about BEST INFANTRY VS INFANRTY players, which is not BEST BATTLEFIELD 2 player were talking about. You know, the kind of player who combats all threats? Not suggests IO as a means to hide from threats he cant fight becaus ehe cant force himself to drop the medic kit...

plane whore? who are you to say a plane can only attack in predictable patterns they can attack from any dirrection they please. As you do in your numerous videos.

Im glad that it takes 2 people to explain you.

A jet can attack from almost ANY angle, correct. But a jet can attack only LIMITED areas because they arent aiming at INFANTRY. They are aiming at "beacons", which are tanks/APCs (green boxes, showing from longer distance so they can line themselves up) or flags. Also some spawnpoints.

Get some more hours in a jet and youll see what I mean.

[archanos]

Re: [xXx]gh0st's view on Infantry Only (IO)

eh,u dont have enough stats for that unlock u really want and some one else got it cuz of the IO thing...well life sucks bud,build a bridge and get over...and buy SF too!

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: [xXx]gh0st's view on Infantry Only (IO)

What if theyres no cover around???

If you find yourself without cover then you're not playing correctly. You're either being lazy, sloppy or stupid if you find yourself without cover for any extended period of time. Things as simple as changes in terrain cab be used as cover and of course if a tank or APC sees you in the first place then you did something wrong initially and moved when they were looking in your direction

the problem with vehicles is that it takes a realitively small ammount of skill to use them effectively (specifically armor)

Wrong. A newbie in a tank is a useless tank. Being a good armor user is being smart in a tactical sense. The hardest thing to do well in armor is avoid death (by infantry, airpower or other armor). You've got to manage that and be quick on the aim. Know how to use your different views among a multitude of other things. Though armor isn't as skill intensive as aircraft it's pretty darn close.

the average infantry has no way of fighting them. And even the infantry with the capability of combating vehicles is more likely then not to fail.

No way of fighting them? AT mines... AT rockets... TOW missiles... C4 and grenades (they don't do much I know but they can add up). If you're having trouble killing armor then you're the person at fault because hitting a tank in the treads with 2 AT rockets is about as easy as falling off a log. If you're a skilled AT user you'll never die to a tank because you'll hit them from where they can't hit back.

Vehicles are overpowered which is good it's how they should be a vehicle is more powerful than a person buut. Sometimes we get bored of being raped by that private in the tank that even the best medic might have a problem killing .

I am that "best medic" you speak of more often than not and I find armor to be laughable in how easy they are to avoid. Vehicles can rack up good scores for sure but only if you let them. An effective counter attack to respond to an armored force can leave even the best tank drivers with a mediocre score at best.

it's purely about skill a player who isnt the worse team will lose.

If these players had any skill they'd do fine against vehicles. Skilled smart players < vehicles. IO is less about skill that regular BF2 will ever be. Skill doesn't mean just having a sharp aim with your weapon but avoiding and countering tougher threats such as tanks and APCs.

Not the team with the J10.

That's an admitted horrible imbalance that DICE has supposedly already corrected (with my approval) so you can't whine about it any more. With F-35B unable to kill the J-10 those airmaps that can be admittedly hellish when you are unlucky enough to encounter a skilled J-10 pilot. Once F-35B can kill them maps like Wake 2007 and Dalian Plant will be completely different.

And walking around you dont get wasted by things you have no ability to fight back against. i.e. no arty no airplanes no choppers.

See that's just the pint. You don't get wasted if you're paying attention. Of course if you're sitting on top of that flag you just captured you might be killed by an aircraft bomb.. but if you move away from that flag and in to the tree line suddenly airplanes don't exist anymore and you'll never die to a bomb.

As far as stats are concerned...stfu stats dont matter so you can stop complaining about them. And if anything IO represents stats better it shows the best player in a round not the player who got to the tank first.

If statistics don't matter then what's the harm in making IO unranked? Yeah I thought so. Of course you say the best player is the player in the tank but again I'll point out that I can outscore tanks most of the time when playing a medic. Of course other infantry can't compete with that but then again other infantry classes aren't overpowered like the medic is. I fully expect and understand if a unique vehicle that's limited to 1 or 2 per map outscores me that it was probably warranted. It's not if the statistics gotten by vehicle whoring mash together with infantry statistics because they don't. Just like my 200:1 K/D ratio in aircraft isn't even a fraction as impressive as a 200:1 infantey K/D ratio would be.

plane whore? who are you to say a plane can only attack in predictable patterns they can attack from any dirrection they please. As you do in your numerous videos.

They attack in predictable patterns and location yes. If you're sitting on the runway you might be getting killed by cannons for example. If you're sitting in an S2A post staring blankly at the sky you might get some cannons on you. If you're standing near a HMMV that is sitting still you might be the unfortunate victim of the explosive radius of a bomb drop.

Vehicle don't even exist in my world when I play infantry. I bypass and avoid them so easily it's like they aren't even a factor.

[imported_bigpappa]

Re: [xXx]gh0st's view on Infantry Only (IO)

no kidding, 11+ pages and people are still bickering...big pappa could solve all these problems for a small nominal fee.

[Batausu]

Re: [xXx]gh0st's view on Infantry Only (IO)

I've just told you, IO mode can be fun. And what do you do, instead of playing? You are talking about it being ranked or not.
Of course it matters to be ranked, most new comers are playing for points!
Only "mature" players, after they have gained a certain rank, don’t care about points anymore.
Look what happened to all those new, wonderful maps that community did, very few people plays on them.
EA and DICE are aware of this fact. To be successful, it has to be ranked. And they should not fail this patch, considering what they expect from us this fall.
So I urge you, try IO first and talk about it later.

[Verzili]

Re: [xXx]gh0st's view on Infantry Only (IO)

If you find yourself without cover then you're not playing correctly. You're either being lazy, sloppy or stupid if you find yourself without cover for any extended period of time. Things as simple as changes in terrain cab be used as cover and of course if a tank or APC sees you in the first place then you did something wrong initially and moved when they were looking in your direction

you need to break cover and go out in to the open to get to a to b on foot unless you camp in cover the whole round.

i have on numerous occasions found myself well hidden in cover when i see armor/infantary coming only to be done over by the enemy due to fact i stick out on the enemy uav.

Wrong. A newbie in a tank is a useless tank. Being a good armor user is being smart in a tactical sense. The hardest thing to do well in armor is avoid death (by infantry, airpower or other armor). You've got to manage that and be quick on the aim. Know how to use your different views among a multitude of other things. Though armor isn't as skill intensive as aircraft it's pretty darn close.

even a unskilled tank driver can get atleast 5 or more kills in a tank before they get killed but all they have to do is re-spawn and rinse and repeat to score alot of points.

but yes a skilled tank driver knows more and could last rather alot longer.

IO is less about skill that regular BF2 will ever be. Skill doesn't mean just having a sharp aim with your weapon but avoiding and countering tougher threats such as tanks and APCs.

playing normal bf2 may need a bit more skill when it comes to avoiding and countering tougher threats like tanks and apc,heli,planes ect.

but that doesnt mean IO is going to be a walk in the park either.

i think skilled snipers will be up ther in the top 3 spots due to the fact they can scan alot of the map,also they will help there team out with spoting
in IO this will need some serious visual/sound awarness to find youre way around safe.

See that's just the pint. You don't get wasted if you're paying attention. Of course if you're sitting on top of that flag you just captured you might be killed by an aircraft bomb.. but if you move away from that flag and in to the tree line suddenly airplanes don't exist anymore and you'll never die to a bomb.

you can get wasted even if you pay attention you on a virtual battlefield,where the whole enemy is out to kill you anyway they can,but in IO it will be with a weapon.

If statistics don't matter then what's the harm in making IO unranked? Yeah I thought so. Of course you say the best player is the player in the tank but again I'll point out that I can outscore tanks most of the time when playing a medic. Of course other infantry can't compete with that but then again other infantry classes aren't overpowered like the medic is. I fully expect and understand if a unique vehicle that's limited to 1 or 2 per map outscores me that it was probably warranted. It's not if the statistics gotten by vehicle whoring mash together with infantry statistics because they don't. Just like my 200:1 K/D ratio in aircraft isn't even a fraction as impressive as a 200:1 infantey K/D ratio would be.

well if stats don't matter then make bf2 unranked whats the harm in that,umm some players like there unlocks (like me i like m95/l96a1) thats the reason i play ranked servers.

im sure it's differnt for other ppl,but without IO being ranked server owners wont waste there time paying for empty servers due to players wanting points/unlocks in there gameplay of bf2.

you seem to bring up things about points and how vehicles can get more or less points iar than you,and how imprerssive this kd ratio is compared to this kd ratio.
The point is IO is a new game mode thats differnt from normal(been the same for a year)gamemode.

im not scared to try somthing differnt,neither should you.
bf2142 will be differnt from bf2 so will bf3/4/5 and so on.
nothing last forever not even IO.

but to deny those that want a new gamemode(IO) is not really fair.

the same thing has been said "if you dont like the concept of IO,or even if you have tryed it and dont like it, its ok you DONT have to play it"

im not keen on statistics(in general not bf2)

but after looking at lots of differnt stats(yes bf2 ones )
i have noticed a balance issue i would like to share with you,you may find it interesting(hopes :) )

most of the players i looked at (compleatly random high points players)

around 75-80% of there score came from vehicles very little from the acctual weapon itself.

IO will even out this inbalence for sure.

p.s i have taken on the coments to try and make my post more clear in what im trying to convey and hope you can understand me a bit better than a few of my previous post.

let the debate continue..........

I've just told you, IO mode can be fun. And what do you do, instead of playing? You are talking about it being ranked or not.
Of course it matters to be ranked, most new comers are playing for points!
Only "mature" players, after they have gained a certain rank, don’t care about points anymore.
Look what happened to all those new, wonderful maps that community did, very few people plays on them.
EA and DICE are aware of this fact. To be successful, it has to be ranked. And they should not fail this patch, considering what they expect from us this fall.
So I urge you, try IO first and talk about it later.

some good valid points there,and yes i agree 100% with " Of course it matters to be ranked"

not only points but ranked = unlocks also
and it must be played to appriciate it fully.

[Pyryck]

Re: [xXx]gh0st's view on Infantry Only (IO)

Basically what I've read so far is that the infantrywhores do not want any competition or challenge to their whoring ways. So, they want to take a game that WE ALL bought and change it around to suit THEIR STYLE of playing. They can't be bothered with learning combined-arms tactics either offensively or defensively. They can't learn or practice intelligent, cooperative, team-based strategies. They just want to run around and shoot other people like in CS, UT, et al. Oh, but they also want to amass points that they couldn't normally get playing in the original BF2 game because they couldn't be bothered with learning to counter vehicular threats.

You want 5vs5 ladders and such? Unranked mods. Knife and pistol to your hearts content!

You want vehicle-less maps for infantry-only whoring? Once again...unranked mods. Pound the ground to your hearts content!

You want vehicle-only maps? All together now... unranked mods! Fly or drive to your hearts content!

If you really want to change or limit the game to better suit your playing style, then why not support the mod community?

And leave BF2 as it was intended to be... a combined-arms, squad-based, cooperative, tactical, modern-day-battlefield game with points-based ranks, medals and badges?

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: [xXx]gh0st's view on Infantry Only (IO)

Basically what I've read so far is that the infantrywhores do not want any competition or challenge to their whoring ways. So, they want to take a game that WE ALL bought and change it around to suit THEIR STYLE of playing. They can't be bothered with learning combined-arms tactics either offensively or defensively. They can't learn or practice intelligent, cooperative, team-based strategies. They just want to run around and shoot other people like in CS, UT, et al. Oh, but they also want to amass points that they couldn't normally get playing in the original BF2 game because they couldn't be bothered with learning to counter vehicular threats.

You want 5vs5 ladders and such? Unranked mods. Knife and pistol to your hearts content!

You want vehicle-less maps for infantry-only whoring? Once again...unranked mods. Pound the ground to your hearts content!

You want vehicle-only maps? All together now... unranked mods! Fly or drive to your hearts content!

If you really want to change or limit the game to better suit your playing style, then why not support the mod community?

And leave BF2 as it was intended to be... a combined-arms, squad-based, cooperative, tactical, modern-day-battlefield game with points-based ranks, medals and badges?

Bu.. buu... but if they did that they wouldn't have their points saved! How pointless would it be to play this game and not have your points saved!