Macros, yay or nay.

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  • RVPilot

    #121
    Re: Macros, yay or nay.

    This grows wearisome. It is clear, no one is going to convince anyone else to change their stance on this issue . And resorting to questioning the intellect or motive of everyone who disagrees is usually a sign of intellectual dishonesty.

    What it boils down to is the intent of the user and the spirit of the game. If you have a 55 year gamer whose reflexes aren't nearly as sharp as they were 30 years earlier, and that gamer wishes to ease the burdensome series of keystrokes, then so be it and more power to him. I hardly condemn such a player as a "cheat". And plenty of people who play this game have real lives that don't allow 2-6 hours a day to be wasted on a game to become proficient in skills that (when the day is over) mean absolutely NOTHING in the real world. Macros provide an alternative to many players who cannot afford the hardware to enhance the game and give them an equal edge, or who do not enjoy an ergonomic setup, or who may suffer physical ailments or disabilities that prevent them from ever achieving a level of prowess on the keyboard that so many teenagers and other high-and-mighty self righteous uber gamemasters enjoy routinely - then hold against the rest of the virtual gaming world.

    So go ahead and give me twenty more examples of how unfair this is, and then include a statement of how life itself isn't fair when some people are less nimble than others, or some are born with physical handicaps, differring intellects or social skills . That's just life people. Play this game and deal with it.

    The PGA won't allow players to ride in golf carts. A few years ago this was in the headlines due to one player having a physical handicap that made walking extraordinarily difficult for him. Ultimately, the rules were bent in his favor as they considered the hammer swung both ways. On the one side, he was unfairly resting between shots giving him an advantage, on the other, he was subjected to abnormally high pain and exertion when forced to walk - giving all the other players an unfair advantage. This was in a game where millions of dollars can be at stake on each tournament - and sanity eventually prevailed even there when they allowed him to use the cart. BTW, he never won the tournament anyway.

    So until you can show me how Battle-Friggen Field is meaningful enough to compete with real life then I join the chorus of those who say "Who cares?". Because even in real life, exceptions to the ordinary are made on a routine basis and we seldom complain - even where those issues have a much more certain and profound impact on our daily lives. Just play the game. If you find you cannot enjoy it for fear of the way others "MIGHT" be playing it, then it's probably time to quit the game anyway since it's become too serious and important in your life.

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    • =IMO=THJones

      #122
      Re: Macros, yay or nay.

      "hi my name is charlie i started with simple macros, seemed innocent at the time but now i have to actually pay someone to play the game for me because pressing the buttons on the keyboard like everyone else just got to be too much for me to do...."
      quote from charlie on oprah

      Comment

      • Bungalow_Bill

        #123
        Re: Macros, yay or nay.

        Originally posted by RVPilot
        What it boils down to is the intent of the user and the spirit of the game. If you have a 55 year gamer whose reflexes aren't nearly as sharp as they were 30 years earlier, and that gamer wishes to ease the burdensome series of keystrokes, then so be it and more power to him. I hardly condemn such a player as a "cheat". And plenty of people who play this game have real lives that don't allow 2-6 hours a day to be wasted on a game to become proficient in skills that (when the day is over) mean absolutely NOTHING in the real world. Macros provide an alternative to many players who cannot afford the hardware to enhance the game and give them an equal edge, or who do not enjoy an ergonomic setup, or who may suffer physical ailments or disabilities that prevent them from ever achieving a level of prowess on the keyboard that so many teenagers and other high-and-mighty self righteous uber gamemasters enjoy routinely - then hold against the rest of the virtual gaming world.
        You're right, it all boils down to the intent of the player.. and the intent of a player creating and using macros is to gain an advantage over other players to artificially inflate said users score.

        "Boohoo! Oh woe is me, I cannot prone hope like a teenager anymore, damn you arthritis! I must use macros!"

        Your justification for using macros is lame. If I were to apply that same logic to something like oh say.. the Olympics, it'd be perfectly legitimate for me to use steroid because I can't run as fast as the best sprinter because I didn't practice as much or my legs were shorter. The same comparison can be made with just about every competitive activity and sport known to humanity.

        Just like every other lame justification in this thread none of that is an excuse to cheat. The most important reasons for that are the following: You do not have to prone spam to be effective in infantry combat (take it from me, while I can do it I do much better without it). You do not have to have a robot clicking the mouse wheel a thousand times a second to properly guide TV missiles. You can play the game just fine without macros, and if you've got a physical or mental limitation that prevents you from doing that as well as other individuals, too freaking bad. Finally, you do not have to best the best player on the server to have fun. It's a game for Christ sakes, and you're supposed to be playing it for fun and a little harmless and ultimately meaningless competition.

        And again getting a computer than runs Battlefield 2 with silky smooth frames on low graphics is only a couple hundreds bucks, and in fact you can't get computer components nowadays that can't do that because they don't even manufacture them anymore! So again the hardware comparison is invalid. Other hardware that's a little close to macros, for example a joystick might be a more comfortable way to fly a plane for some, but I know many people who swear by a keyboard/mouse control scheme for a plane. But in the end, I refuse to believe someone who enjoys flying planes cannot scrape together 20 dollars for a Logitech 3d Pro. Hell it doesn't even have to be new, you could probably get a second hand stick for less than ten bucks.

        In the end it's all just cheating, and trying to justify it for ANY reason whatsoever is completely unacceptable, and if you want to talk about the "spirit" of gaming and Battlefield 2 in general nothing goes more against that spirit of fair and fun competition than cheating. It's so logical I don't see how anybody could dispute what I've just said.

        Comment

        • RVPilot

          #124
          Re: Macros, yay or nay.

          Originally posted by PlaneWhore
          . Finally, you do not have to best the best player on the server to have fun. It's a game for Christ sakes, and you're supposed to be playing it for fun and a little harmless and ultimately meaningless competition.
          I get the distinct impression from you this game is no longer just about having "fun". If it is (still about fun) then your statement applies equally well to you and those who spend hour after hour complaining about others and trying to determine their motives when formulating an argument against them. Just play the game and remember your own words: "playing it for fun and a little HARMLESS and ultimately MEANINGLESS competition."

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          • Bungalow_Bill

            #125
            Re: Macros, yay or nay.

            Originally posted by RVPilot
            I get the distinct impression from you this game is no longer just about having "fun". If it is (still about fun) then your statement applies equally well to you and those who spend hour after hour complaining about others and trying to determine their motives when formulating an argument against them. Just play the game and remember your own words: "playing it for fun and a little HARMLESS and ultimately MEANINGLESS competition."
            No you're wrong. The very reason I am so opposed to macros is that it negatively impacts my personal enjoyment of the game when I encounter them. For example, I face off with another helicopter gunner. We both fire TV missiles. I miss, he hits. Only problem with the situation is he was using a macro which handed the victory to him. How would you feel about that? Because I know I'd feel like I just got a raw deal, and that player should've been banned from playing a long time ago.

            Again, it's not fun to be unfairly killed, and it's not fun to being playing in a legitimate fashion, encounter a macro prone spammer and then getting killed as a result of it. The whole opposition to macros exists because it adversly effects the gaming experience of others by unevening the playing field and giving an unfair advantage to others.

            Of course you can ruin someones time simply by being a better player and dominating on them (I happen to enjoy it, because I enjoy the challenge that comes with being legitimately beaten), but the difference between that an encountering a macroer is it was purely that players superior abilities that awarded him that victory, and not some chunk of code flawlessly performing some otherwise difficult maneuever in the game.

            Comment

            • RVPilot

              #126
              Re: Macros, yay or nay.

              Well, I have followed you in various forums, including Planet battlefield, and I remember you for your well formulated and thoughtful posts - often in the face of unsubstantiated flames. One thing that stood out was the fact you always used a cool and calm counterargument, usually one based on the norm of the game.

              Today however, I see a more frustrated PW who has begun using the extreme example of an obvious abuser and applying that argument against "normal" players. I do not agree with it, and suspect it is symptomatic of having entered a phase of gaming where it is no longer just a form of entertainment, but a way of life. In those circumstances, I can see perfectly well why you'd feel the way you do, and justifiably so. However, I do not share the extent of that passion for the game, along with many others, and am still able to flex to a degree in order to allow for the various types of gamers I share time with - and STILL enjoy the game.

              I'm off to a business conference till Friday. I will leave the last comment in this argument to you. As always, it is a pleasure to interact with you on the forum.

              Comment

              • Bungalow_Bill

                #127
                Re: Macros, yay or nay.

                Originally posted by RVPilot
                Today however, I see a more frustrated PW who has begun using the extreme example of an obvious abuser and applying that argument against "normal" players. I do not agree with it, and suspect it is symptomatic of having entered a phase of gaming where it is no longer just a form of entertainment, but a way of life. In those circumstances, I can see perfectly well why you'd feel the way you do, and justifiably so. However, I do not share the extent of that passion for the game, along with many others, and am still able to flex to a degree in order to allow for the various types of gamers I share time with - and STILL enjoy the game.
                I'm anything but frustrated with these forums, and especially Battlefield 2. In fact the only reason I post is I enjoy a good debate on these forums. I could imagine myself being frustrated if I was constantly getting killed by prone spammers and TV missile macros, but I'm not. That doesn't mean I don't see them, because I do. But in the end my for me at least my superior skill as an experienced gamer is enough to overcome a lesser player with a full suite of macros. I feel badly for the individuals who aren't as skilled as I am (to put it bluntly) and are cheat free, but continue to encounter macroers and are beaten as a result of those other players cheating. I could certainly understand frustration that would arise from such an unfair situation, similar to a J-10 pilot teeing off in an unfortunate and helpless F-35B pilot.

                Any frustration I may personally display is a result of having to explain the same basic concepts of fair play on these forums over and over only to have them misunderstood or completely disregarded by certain individuals. You just can't reason with some people, the same kind of person who uses every macro they can get their greasy little hands on and would use hardcore cheats but does not have the nerve to do so for fear of being GUID or hardware banned and subsequently humiliated and written off as nothing more than some lowly cheater and not an amazingly skilled player.

                Hmm, interesting concept... macroer cheaters are just people who couldn't handle the risk associated with aimbot cheating. Same motives, different methods.

                Comment

                • Red Devil

                  #128
                  Re: Macros, yay or nay.

                  The problem is the stats and the incentive it provides to cheat.

                  All the kids want the status they can brag about on their school playgrounds at recess and they'll do anything to get it.

                  "Hey, did you hear Jimmy Tucker has got 2 million points and is now a General??"

                  "ooooooooooooooo!!!"

                  Comment

                  • HowieMandel

                    #129
                    Re: Macros, yay or nay.

                    Originally posted by DooDaH


                    Actually, you can bind multiple functions to 1 key, by editing the controls.con manually... Like binding jump, parashute, position 1 in vehicle and inside view, to the Spacebar...
                    Something few people seem to be interested in...

                    Their loss...
                    yeah, i too find it strange that most people dont go, and mess around with game files, and edit things... i mean, what a crazy world we are living in. This is an outrage.!!!
                    PEOPLE OF THE WORLD......UNITE, AND EDIT YOUR .CON, .NET, .UTX and ANY OTHER FILE IN THE GAMES FOLDER...........STAND UP AND EDIT!

                    Comment

                    • Bungalow_Bill

                      #130
                      Re: Macros, yay or nay.

                      Stats have an effect I'm sure but most people seem to cheat to either enrage or impress other players (i'd say to be impressive is more common motive for cheaters). Counterstrike Source has no stat recording, yet cheaters are like the plague in that FPS.

                      Comment

                      • imported_[UTAC] Incognito

                        #131
                        Re: Macros, yay or nay.

                        I have a nostromo, I could do macro but it is cheating.

                        Comment

                        • Sheeple Police

                          #132
                          Re: Macros, yay or nay.

                          If you are going to use macros, why not just have the computer control ALL of your movements and all you will have to do is aim? Because if you want macros it will get to that point eventually.

                          What is the difference between a macro and a computer program controlling your player?

                          Comment

                          • Donkey

                            #133
                            Re: Macros, yay or nay.

                            I jsut find it funny that the people who say they care the least about their stats are the ones that tend to whine if someone else is "cheating" to boost their stats...Ironic dont ya think????

                            I can't believe this place **** out the Biznitch word....R u serisous??? that's being worse than the FCC....

                            Comment

                            • [PTG]KillAllFools

                              #134
                              Re: Macros, yay or nay.

                              It depends on how you think of it. Sure some may consider it cheating because you have an "Unfair" advantage. But all the things that macros do can be done with your hands. If you just train your hands (like me) to do things like prone crouch jump or F2 F1 for chopper then it isn't all that hard. If people want to spend an extra 50 dollers on a keyboard which gives them an advantage let them, because in the end i'll pwn them anyday.

                              Comment

                              • Sloi sauce

                                #135
                                Re: Macros, yay or nay.

                                Originally posted by PlaneWhore
                                You just can't reason with some people, the same kind of person who uses every macro they can get their greasy little hands on and would use hardcore cheats but does not have the nerve to do so for fear of being GUID or hardware banned and subsequently humiliated and written off as nothing more than some lowly cheater and not an amazingly skilled player.
                                I understand the frustration of clearly seeing a situation, only to be disappointed time and time again by supposedly intelligent people who refuse to accept things for what they are: it's true, you can't reason with everyone... and for that, I empathize with you as I've tried to do this far too often in the past. Your posts are well thought out and I enjoy reading them, but I fear that you'll eventually burn out like I did (repeated frustration at being misunderstood on forums), so take it easy and most of all, don't take them too seriously.

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