Macros, yay or nay.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

Its not the same concept as joystick. A joystick makes it easier to control a jet within the limits. Youre still doing everything by yourself.

A macro lets you "skip" key presses in order to execute multiple functions with one keypress. Someone can be anal about it and compare it to aimbotting, where "mouse move" function is being skipped .

I dont deal in absolutes in this case. I believe certain macros make the game a little more interesting for yourself. Like, creating a macro that would throw a grenade and swith to primary, same with medic bags. Its my intrepretion only though.

I cant accept the TV macro, or the mentioned LGM macro, and of course the jumper macro as being legit.

How I sort it myself would be-

Any macro that allows you to engage an enemy directly easier, is not acceptable.
Any macro that rises your life expectancy on the field, is not acceptable.

Macro that allows you to perform certain functions more comfortably, while not directly affecting OpFor players, is acceptable.

By using artificial aids you're crippling yourself, just like the macro users, but if it makes you feel better...

´

"Figure out..."

Ive figured out how exactly the bombs drop and how to aim the HUD. I hardly call that an artificial aid, rather than just... aid. Its best to be used by new pilots, who dont exactly know how the thing works. The next step would be to take off those lines as soon as you feel you dont need them. However, I like them, they create a little more of that battlefield immersion.

You see, you are used to dropping bombs at the right time at the right angle. I however do that visually, and thats more sattisfying.

Besides, you cant cripple your skills with 3 lines, if you are good enough to use them effectively.

[disfigured]

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

The joystick comparison is an inaccurate analogy.

A joystick no matter how sophisticated doesn't allow you to execute complex key strokes with a 0% chance of failure. That is the difference. You may feel as a player that you can do it , but it's not possible to do it. You'll make a mistake, you'll hesitate between strokes, become distracted. You'll make these mistakes less and less as you get better but you'll still make them occasionally. With a macro that "human" element of imperfection is eliminated, and makes for a less interesting gaming expereince for everyone.

It also dosen't allow you to access more keys. Although some joysticks with more buttons then others are an advantage, they are not an unfair advantage. Because you can always use a standard keyboard has as many keys (if not more) within reach then most joysticks, even the most accesable ones. It's a differnt "layout".

Which relates to my next point, reachablility, if that's even a word .

The only macros that can be replicated "by hand", are the ones that have keys that can be readily reached while playing. As soon as you create a macro that skips around the expanse of a keyboard that during normal game play you couldn't possibly be able to replicate by hand, you've created something the human hand can't do.

You may be able to stare down at the keyboard and replicate it with two hands, but during game play it would be impossible. That's an "unfair advantage" created by an outside source. Because it's not software and is hardwired into the keyboard itself, is only splitting hairs.

I can't see allowing anything like this leading to anything but a worse gaming expereince all around. What's next (as was mentioned by me and another poster)? Entire macros for the beginning of rounds? Enter plane, take off, fly 1/4 mile in direction X, bomb carrier , rinse and repeat?

Because that's what will happen as you put technology in the hands of humans. It will only expand, become more sophisticated, and eventually be a standard everyone has to use. That's fine for most technologies, nailguns, autocad, but for gaming it doesn't make any sense. Would you like to see two great chess masters with computers behind them, and have them consult them for every move? It's the same thing. Who ever can afford the best most sophisticated computer win the chess tournement? While you might think gaming Vcards and Proccessors are similar to this they are not, If two players had to play a virtual game across the world from each other, the quality of the display created by the computers would not give either an advantage. I'll elaborate further.........

The Vcard and proccessor analogy is also inaccurate.

Frame rate is frame rate. If your playing at a 60 frame/second rate at 800x600, your not at any of a disadvantage to someone playing at the same frame rate at 1600x1200.

If you want eyecandy and sacrifice frame rate to do so, then your just giving yourself a disadvantage, and it can be easily corrected by adjusting your grahpics.

As much as some people don't like clans, and tournements you can useally look to them for what is considered a cheat, "unfair advantage", or something that violates the spirit of the ROE. Macros are not allowed in the leagues. That says a lot because they strive for a fair and even playing feild.

[lostinspace]

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

edited

[disfigured]

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

Good points , it might be here to stay. There is the whole hardware manufacturer big buisness scenario that can be very influencial.

If that's the case it could go either way.

If the programming is there in PB, then it was considered at one point that it would be not good for gaming. I think they were on the right track.

It's too much of a floodgate issue for me to say "ah well, it's here to stay".

I saw a show on modern fighter pilots who were given a chance to fly antique WWI biplanes and triplanes. To a "T", they all said it was much more challenging. All the conviences given them in modern fighters only made it less challenging and less difficult to actually fly.

What will macros create in the future? Will I be able to sit back, take a puff of a cigarette, hit one key, and sit back again?

Last league I was in, there were third party cheat protection (forget the name) . Some times the market can account for these "disagreements". Perhaps some ingenious programmer can create a macro detection type program. Servers can choose to run it or not.

[OCl]

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

If it were an exploit/cheat then (maybe) you should whine to the company that makes macro hardware.. After all, money = advantage in games.
I myself don't care about macro users.

[Red Devil]

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

It's not whining to complain about cheating. And what would complaining to the HW companies do? Nothing.

[lostinspace]

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

Macro's

§1.3 You may not change (hack) any core games files, load into memory or employ external programs or cheats for the purposes of giving yourself an unfair advantage over other players.

This would include but not limited to:
§ MSX and other 3rd party software.

there is a fine line when using 3rd party keyboard or mouse software for it's intended use or when binding it so it will reproduce movements or abilities that the normal player can not do..

You forgot:

http://www.BFROE.com

"
§ Items not included in this list would be up to EA & DICE to interpret.
"

Not ever have I read anything about macro's except in the interpretations of unofficial sources...



And some hypocracy:

"
there is a fine line when using 3rd party keyboard or mouse software for it's intended use or when binding it so it will reproduce movements or abilities that the normal player can not do..
"

The following thread became a sticky about a 3rd party programm which will just do that... allow for movements or abilities that the normal player can not do:

"
JoytoKey
A hard to find 3rd party application which can give all sorts of insane new functionality
" http://www.totalbf2.com/forums/showt...hlight=joy2key

A thread created by a super moderator who is apparently against macro's, but who says on another forum:
"
I love my n52...macros work fine for me...but I never found any useful enough to actually use...so I don't use any.
" http://forum.eagames.co.uk/viewtopic...21459&start=15


So excuse me for ignoring other peoples interpretations about these things...

BTW:

can anyone direct me to an official statement from EA or Dice about macro use specifically..?

-

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

Thing is. JoyToKey most functions are actually possible to be done with simple line writing in the controls.con file.

[.Churr.]

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

I never used them myself, but sure, macros give their users unfair advantage. It's just BS when you barrel roll, do all sorts of acrobacies, and the guy still hits the TVGM. Every single time. This is insane, but it's also hard to detect.

They should NOT be allowed.

[Slapidus]

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

To me using a marco is no better then making a hack for the game imo,it gives the other people who don't use them an unfair advantage,so ppl who think there fine are the little stat whoring noobs of the game and if ppl don't like then they know where there sun don't shine and they can shove it there :laugh:

[RVPilot]

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

Which relates to my next point, reachablility, if that's even a word .

The only macros that can be replicated "by hand", are the ones that have keys that can be readily reached while playing. As soon as you create a macro that skips around the expanse of a keyboard that during normal game play you couldn't possibly be able to replicate by hand, you've created something the human hand can't do.

Evidently then anyone who remaps a keyboard is a "cheat" then?

Man has this gaming community degenerated over time. Virtually everything, and I mean EVERYTHING has become subjected to some new kind of litmus test to satisfy the masses. Screw that and just play the game. I remember a the days once upon a time when we'd be sharing macro's and patting each other on the back on forums like this rather than crying foul everytime a genuinely ingenious tweak or strategy was revealed. Not anymore though. Now it's rewrite the rules, or recode the game if you please. What a shame.

[DosX]

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

So holding down W, S and D at the same time (which can't be done on many normal keyboards) is a cheat?

If those keys CAN be held down together on a normal keyboard then it is NOT a cheat. The key is NORMAL gameplay.

Similarily, how is it less of an exploit if you make a macro to do something in less than 1/10th of a second what would take even the fastest legit player at least 5 times that to do?

Can NOT be performed during normal gameplay - cheat.

You need to define it differently, macros for radio commands (ie. Spotting an enemy, or telling people to get in to a chopper) are justified as they don't give you an unfair combat advantage. Macros like the Jump - Prone - Aim - Shoot bind do however, as it is impossible to replicate that if you press all the required buttons yourself.

If something is impossible to recreate using the keyboard then it IS A CHEAT.

Macro's are simply key combinations put together. Keyboards (G15), Controllers (Nostromo) and Joysticks all have the capabilities. Where the macro goes from acceptable to cheat is when people edit them to perform actions that would NOT be normally capable in game.

Something like holding down space, then clicking left mouse button 10 times in one second, then releasing space. Obviously illegal.

[Donkey]

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

The Vcard and proccessor analogy is also inaccurate.

Frame rate is frame rate. If your playing at a 60 frame/second rate at 800x600, your not at any of a disadvantage to someone playing at the same frame rate at 1600x1200.

If you want eyecandy and sacrifice frame rate to do so, then your just giving yourself a disadvantage, and it can be easily corrected by adjusting your grahpics.

I would have to disagree with this.... For I have seen BF2 on HUGE plasmas and let me tell you it is def an advantage.... When the enemy is about 6" tall where on a typical screen he would be 1", thus making it a lot easier to see them on the bigger monitor....Also having a computer that can handle 100% draw distance would be an advantage over someone who can not....

As for the macros I guess it really depends....Everyone can make a macro soooo it really isn’t an unfair advantage since you, if you really wanted, could make a macro...

That is like saying you need to limit what types of flight controllers people can use...Since a Saitek X52 flight control system (which is badass btw) is way better then say some Microsoft 30 dollar piece of plastic (debatable I know)....

It really is a tough call and I personally don't use macros although I could see their purpose....It actually is kind of intuitve and showing a will to do whatever it takes to win, something that is encouraged in warfare both virtually and reality based....

[lostinspace]

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

edited

[*FMJ*Power]

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

Open controls.con
bind your mouse-scrollwheel up and down to the fire command...
Bind mousewheel press to space...
save controls.con

Go ingame and scroll up and down on your mousewheel with a weapon while pressing it down at the same time...

Objective completed and it only took me half a minute to come up with it...

So how is that cheating..? I would call that a clever keysetup...
(This is where another kind of skill comes into play)

-

id pretty much have to agree, you can do alot more with the con file than any macro can do but everyone is crying about macros. the only macro ive seen that gives any advantage is the tv guided or the c4 chuck but theres no end to stuff you can do editing the con file.