Macros, yay or nay.

[parish]

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

Well, since there is no way to sotp people fomr using macros, then I guess this whole thread is moot. Since all a macro does is allow a user to push some buttons just like they would normally, it's kinda hard to nerf. Some macros will let you set time between keystrokes and thereby look just like regular keystrokes to the game.

Oh well.... who cares.

[=MLK=stallzer]

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

Who cares? Alot of us do. I own a G-15 because it has the most bang for the buck (and it looks cool) I've never cheated in an on-line game and would never want to. The problem with cheats is that most people never even know they exist till they come to a forum like this and get the publicity they don't need. I never even thought of using my "G" keys on my logitech G-15 till I stumbled across this thread. Now I'm anxious to try them, and after reading the input of many I've come to the conclusion...Not a cheat ! I'm only using my hardware for what it's designed to do and it's available to everyone similar to CVAR tweaks used in RTCW. If it's available for everyone to use than I'm not really gaining an unfair advantage over anyone, you're just choosing not to use it.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

Who cares? Alot of us do. I own a G-15 because it has the most bang for the buck (and it looks cool) I've never cheated in an on-line game and would never want to. The problem with cheats is that most people never even know they exist till they come to a forum like this and get the publicity they don't need. I never even thought of using my "G" keys on my logitech G-15 till I stumbled across this thread. Now I'm anxious to try them, and after reading the input of many I've come to the conclusion...Not a cheat ! I'm only using my hardware for what it's designed to do and it's available to everyone similar to CVAR tweaks used in RTCW. If it's available for everyone to use than I'm not really gaining an unfair advantage over anyone, you're just choosing not to use it.

Yup. I mean, its not like you cant download the aimbot from anywhere. Right?

[=MLK=stallzer]

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

Yup. I mean, its not like you cant download the aimbot from anywhere. Right?

Again...This isn't something I'm down loading...Its HARDWARE !! That anyone can Purchase similar to An expensive video card setup that utilizes AA & AF @ 16 X , you don't think they have a slight advantage over say a 9600 pro user ? cmon people, everytime you die it isn't someone cheating. On line gaming is a billion dollar business and the name of the game is HARDWARE !! Nvidia and ATI aren't billion dollar businesses for nothing. The whole idea in on- line gaming is to get the best hardware money can buy (if you can afford it) to get the edge on the next guy, if that weren't the case you wouldn't have the 2000 dollar rig now would you?

[(4THIDUSA) SSG H.]

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

actually people who reduce the graphics get the advatage, no grass, no shawdows, higher FPS etc....

but macros do appear to violate this

§1.3 You may not change (hack) any core games files, load into memory or employ external programs or cheats for the purposes of giving yourself an unfair advantage over other players.


I mean a one push button, that lets you run, jump, prone, fire, stand up, run, reload, is a "cheat"

[Painboy]

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

Again...This isn't something I'm down loading...Its HARDWARE !! That anyone can Purchase similar to An expensive video card setup that utilizes AA & AF @ 16 X , you don't think they have a slight advantage over say a 9600 pro user ? cmon people, everytime you die it isn't someone cheating. On line gaming is a billion dollar business and the name of the game is HARDWARE !! Nvidia and ATI aren't billion dollar businesses for nothing. The whole idea in on- line gaming is to get the best hardware money can buy (if you can afford it) to get the edge on the next guy, if that weren't the case you wouldn't have the 2000 dollar rig now would you?

So if someone sold a mouse that had a built in aimbot that would be ok? Or how about a video card that automatically turned selected textures transparent or disabled the fog? I mean it's just hardware.

Say whatever gets you to sleep at night, but using macros in an FPS is cheating. If they wanted you to use them they would put them in the game and support them.

[Sloi sauce]

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

Uh, ok people.

§1.3 is self-explanatory: there's nothing to discuss, performance macros are a form of exploit/cheat, so stop trying to come up with excuses/justifications to use them. FFS.

[imported_=NAA=SHADOW]

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

just play the damn game! and stfu!

[HowieMandel]

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

Im gonna purchase hacks from that web site we all pretend we dont know exists, probally up my kills from my average of 20-30 per game (infantry) to about 60-80 per game....im sure. Doesnt seem like a stretch, if i buy that hack that has the ...mmm let me read the description again:
1.) Anti Recoil. Ooo yeah baby, that means pretty much insta death without much skill, cuz my guns not gonna rise up..... like it does now..i wont have to pay attention no more....point and click........especially in conjunction with.......
2.) Anti Bullet Spread. Well hell, this and anti recoil, come on.... If i shoot at 100 different people in a round.........please..........how many am i gonna kill? Sawwwwwwwwwwweet!!
3.)Full Time UAV for yourself. Well, come on. I can shoot any gun now like its a bow and arrow, and it dont matter how long i keep the fire button on.....the bullets go in direction. where my crosshair is. ANd that crosshair dont move....so...... PLUS i got my personal own uav surrounding me at all time. GOD......Shoot like a GOD, AND know where the enemy is 100% of the time??????? SAwwwwwwwwwwwwwweeet!!! Man im gonna be 13387334...or something.
4.)Commander Hack. OmgZorZs!!! Dude you make me mad, and even though im not the commander, im gonna rain down hell on your flag, whenever and as long as I want. With no reload time dude. I will OWN YOU!! Nah im not that mean, but i will pummel the flag im gonna cap first. And i dont even have to ask for arty. I dont need a supply crate call either, cuz i can drop one myself. Whenever i want. I AM THE MAN!!!!!!
5.)Anti-Fog. OMGOZROZ!! Dudeeezzzzzzzzzz. I can snipe like........like, from across the map!!! you got a problem with that noob???
6.) AIMBOT!!!
OMGOZROR FOR DA RIZZIE!!!! PWNEDORZZ!!! Dude i dont even have to do much of anything now. YOu think you are good?? I will ownzorz you, now.
I was trying to be somewhat funny, while providing actual truths. Which the above is true. And there are even more functions to this thing.

Oh i dont think this is cheating though, cuz i downloaded it, and paid for it.

Of course that logic only works for some people. The ones we wish would leave pc gaming, and go play on x-boxes at lil' johnnys house, on a split screen, 22 inch black and white television.

[xbrandomx]

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

The jump-prone-shoot thing doesn't bother me at all... I have to do it because I have to keep up with the teams that my team plays with (really really good teams... like best in the world teams).

My personal opinion is that its cheating... But I personally can't go to everybody's house and check the keyboard and say "hey, I think you're cheating".

Whatever- I can still kill them... even if they're using macros.

long live ghetto keyboard!(for those of us who can't afford a new "cool" board and can still kick yo ***)

[=MLK=stallzer]

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

So if someone sold a mouse that had a built in aimbot that would be ok? Or how about a video card that automatically turned selected textures transparent or disabled the fog? I mean it's just hardware.

Say whatever gets you to sleep at night, but using macros in an FPS is cheating. If they wanted you to use them they would put them in the game and support them.

1. There isn't a mouse available with an aimbot so hypothetical situations do not carry water .

2. No video card has the ability to turn off fog....again Hypothetical.

Again we are talking about Hardware that anyone can purchase. I suppose all the whiners crying Cheat are the ones who bitched enough to turn BF 2 into what it is now......Borked. Seriously people, again I say, everytime you get killed , quit crying cheat! The G-15 does not "Launch an external program" instead you are only using your hardware to it's fullest .

[[MyIS]Spetsnaz]

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

1. There isn't a mouse available with an aimbot so hypothetical situations do not carry water .

2. No video card has the ability to turn off fog....again Hypothetical.

Again we are talking about Hardware that anyone can purchase. I suppose all the whiners crying Cheat are the ones who bitched enough to turn BF 2 into what it is now......Borked. Seriously people, again I say, everytime you get killed , quit crying cheat! The G-15 does not "Launch an external program" instead you are only using your hardware to it's fullest .

There's a difference between crying cheat when getting killed and discussing whether or not macros should be considered cheating.

Macros bypass a limitation specifically created by game developers. Americas Army considers macros cheating, which is why you'll get PB banned if the PB scanner checks your key config file and finds multiple actions set under one key. BF2 would have this, but I think you aren't allowed to assign multiple actions to a single key in the key config file.

You cannot compare video cards, mice, joysticks, keyboards, etc to macros.

Traditionally, the logic in PC gaming was very simple:

You play the role of a character that has to accomplish an objective. In order to accomplish this objective, you can perform actions that are defined by the developers. Generally, each action is assigned a different key on the keyboard. On occasion, developers will mix things up by allowing the player to assign *certain* actions to multiple keys, but this is very rare as it may cause confusion.

What macros do is bypass the primary purpose behind playing the game -- actually pressing the buttons to perform the actions you need to take to win. Those that can press these buttons faster and more precisely will usually be victorious (other factors are at play as well of course like teamwork, luck, tactics, etc -- but we're talking about the individual player).

Using a joystick does give you an advantage over the players that don't have joysticks when flying, however this does not go against the game mechanics. Game are specifically created to work with Joysticks, but not macros (for good reason). If the developers wanted to, they could easily allow people to bind multiple commands to a single key -- no hardware needed. They don't do this for a reason. Joysticks also don't go against the game mechanics because they merely provide a means by which to accomplish the same exact action in a more comfortable manner. You still need to bank, you still need to dive, you still need to press the button to eject. The difference is that flying is more accesible with a Joystick, but it does not bypass anything.

People have been brining up analogies left and right, allow me to bring up my own:

Daytona 500. My stock car is fitted with a computer navigation system that will carry my car around the track. It's not as complex, since the track is round. My vehicle is then calibrated to calculate the distance between it and the vehicles behind and in front of it. It is also calibrated to turn perfectly via some extremely complex mathematical formulas. I think you get the point ...

By fitting my car with this nav system, I am bypassing a very important element of the race which is actually driving the car. In BF2, a great portion of a tactical battle relies on human error (someone screwing up) -- the same goes for Nascar (or anything for that matter). By "computerizing" your movements in game, you are basically turning yourself into an infallable machine when it comes to, say, jump+dive+defrib because you do it at the optimal speed every single time (without mistakes).

I know where the supporters of macros are getting at, I sort of understand their point, but cannot overlook those very important details.

I think until the macro users recognize that actually pressing the keys with their fingers is a significant part of the gameplay and plays an important role in how effective they are (human error, bad timing, etc) -- they will realize that having the computer execute these commands perfectly every-single-time is no different than having the computer aim for you or having the computer do something else in-game for you.

Until then, though, we will be in disagreement

[HowieMandel]

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

well said..........here here.

In all actuality i wouldnt care if they used macros. I wished they didnt, or at least felt like they shouldnt. I simply just want them to continue using them, and say........."why yes, yes, i am playing with a wee bit of advantage over most here in the server...yes, yes". I mean, if they can score dead last, or dead First........and say that, while using a macro....

bliss. wonderful.

But to use them, and then say......its normal..........its, ok.........its not cheating......its not bad........
thats what sucks.

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

1. There isn't a mouse available with an aimbot so hypothetical situations do not carry water .

2. No video card has the ability to turn off fog....again Hypothetical.

Again we are talking about Hardware that anyone can purchase. I suppose all the whiners crying Cheat are the ones who bitched enough to turn BF 2 into what it is now......Borked. Seriously people, again I say, everytime you get killed , quit crying cheat! The G-15 does not "Launch an external program" instead you are only using your hardware to it's fullest .

Are you really that stupid? It doesn't matter if it hasn't been created, but the fact that it could easily be created if a hardware developer wanted to. On the most basic level, the G-15 is a piece of hardware with memory and software onboard that interfaces with the computer. The computer simply recognizes this macro as a regular keyboard input. An aimbot is just a piece of software too that would send mouse input and move the mouse for you, but stick that on a mouse with 2 megs of memory and suddenly it's a piece of hardware and it's ok to use?

At the core level an aimbot on a mouse is no different than a macro utility on a keyboard. While a keyboard helps you perform complex key operations with ease (yet they have perfect timing and accuracy), while an aimbot mouse would help you perform precision aiming tasks with ease (yet it has perfect accuracy).

And don't think for a second macros don't give you a huge advantage. A couple months back I heard about the so called "TV guided" missile macros, so I did a little research purely out of curiosity. I found a macro program with relative ease on Google, figured out basic functions and within 10 minutes I wrote a script that created a toggle key that would activate a macro where if I clicked my left mouse button with the script on it'd click it roughly 20 times a second. After testing in single player to my amazement, flying a TV guided missile was no more difficult than flying an airplane. I'd have to say this simple macro increased my accuracy with TV missiles by at least 200%-300%, but as I have a conscious after doing my testing I promptly deleted the macro. That's certainly fortunate for all the legitimate non-cheating individuals I have since missed with TV missiles. But I accept that even if I had killed them with a TV guided missile macro, I wouldn't have earned the kill and thus it would've been meaningless.

In my research to create my own macro I also discovered user made macros, far more complex than my own. One individual had a macro that'd go a couple steps further that would on one key press jump in to the gunner seat and instantly fire a TV missile and start the guide mode. He could then guide the TV missile like an airplane and after it exploded it'd automatically put him back in the cockpit. If that wasn't enough the macro also generated a tone when his TV missile had finished reloading. So essentially one key press generated a complex series of functions with perfect timing and accuracy that'd be virtually impossible to do by hand. And you don't consider that a cheat?

If you don't, I can only consider that you're some kind of mental defect. And while most macros aren't this complex and don't provide the user with this huge advantage, they're still the same exact thing just to a lesser extent. Nobody would ever say an aimbot program is ok simply because it isn't a 100% accurate or only locks on aim if you're within an inch of your target. So why have the same attitude with macros?

[lostinspace]

Re: Macros, yay or nay.

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