No Vehicle option details

[Mr Pmosh]

Re: No Vehicle option details

The question is. If EA in bfroe don't allow ranked servers, that don't allow the use of vehicles because they say is unbalance and a way to stat pad. Why they are making this now? Hope they have big refund to al those server they closed for this. EA and Dice would have to respond to them. Free server or give them money back. Some of those that got there server closed can have legal action against EA. EA would be breaking there own ROE with this in ranked. And by that, closing all those server was unfair. Better keep it unranked. Hope you know what you doing Dice. Theres money involve in this.

[Dangerdog]

Re: No Vehicle option details

Good feedback all around guys.

I may be way off base here but please let me know if this solution is a nicer fit to what everyone seems to be requesting:

1. Leave current option
2. Add new server option that is also no vehicles but does not have the modified settings for soldiers.


The debate on whether to include FAV vehicles is something I am really eager to see. I know its pretty much impossible to have a full opinion when most of it is roughly "I think having FAV's would help this option", but any feedback is good feedback.

Also for the bug fix vs new design implementation. It should be noted that the new vehicles setup is something that falls almost entirely onto a designers work load and not a programmers (bug fixer) work load. So when things like this come around its not at the cost of time spent bug fixing.

Sorry to digress there but please keep the quality feedback rolling its very helpful.

I think this comment should be reposted here, it covers the assumption that this mode is taking away from valuable bug fixing time.

[Mr Pmosh]

Re: No Vehicle option details

Hey guys,
I find I am a bit vague on how much of this discussion is based off play experience on different maps using the new option and how much of it is based on speculation.

I am speaking with the designers and the question I cant answer is "Which maps have they tried and how many rounds etc etc...?"

This only work on city maps. All the others are desing for tanks, apc, AA, jets, heli. Getting out of the carrier in wake and arrive to land to only see a AT guy launching a single rocket and blowing up the little boat is no fun.

One thing they should always change is the Rib. Make them go faster in all BF2.

Nobody gets to land in them against a team with comander. They get spoted and boom. They are useless.

Heck..why not remove the AT class altogether while they're at it....

Hey while they are at it. Why not remove all the guns . And make it knife and pistol.

If they make this ranked without nerfing damage and giving some transport it would be a stat padding mode.

And other thing is, by people saying leave some transport vehicles. It would not be a INFANTRY ONLy MODE. With this DICE should notice that even the same people that want infantry only, are saying to you (DICE) that the maps without vehicles don't work!

If you want infantry only make some city maps for those. Leave the other jet maps alone.

Even the new city map in 64 players is vehicle based. LOL

Why don't dice make some money out of this and design some infantry only city maps and sell them as a booster pack. This way those that want this would buy that booster pack. You make money, you leave bf2 alone has it is desing for vehicle. And every one would be happy.

[Harmor]

Re: No Vehicle option details

No need to explain the issues with the 2x HP - its already been discussed earlier in this thread.

So far there are three solutions to this 'No Vehicle option' that I've seen:

• 0 vehicles except RIB on water maps:
  Pros: No pesky Armor/Jets to deal with. Combat is focused between infantry. Massive Infantry vs. Infantry Battles. Runners to back or underdefened bases will always be on foot instead in a vehicle or parachuted in - clear battlefronts will be set. USMC carriers will rarely have their assets destroyed by SpecOps who usually have a transport helicopter to get them there. No more cartillery to kill snipers or destroy artillery.
  Cons: Do you really want to run to the next flag? Some maps would never be played. The Medic kit will be godly while the Engineer kit useless. No one would be able to go around choke points (as has been mentioned earlier in this thread) in a vehicle. Much more difficult for enemy to 'baserape' the USMC carrier since they don't have Planes, APCs or transport helicopters. The maps are not designed for a vehicle-less experience - maps are too large. 6-man Medic squads will be common. Commanders will no longer be able to use cartillery.
  
• 'Vehicle-lite' (all armor replaced with Heavy Jeeps, AA vehicles with Light Jeeps, Littlebird and Attack Helicopters with Transport Helicopters, and Jets removed):
  Pros: Its still BF2. All classes will still be useful. The game will be fast since everyone has access to transports. Transport vehicles are balanced and have plenty of counters (AT rockets, AT mines, Snipers, sustain automatic fire, Grenade Launcher, TOW), and won't unbalance the game.
  Cons:: Possibly too many transport vehicles on some maps. May have gangs of vehicles that just run over people.
  
• 'Vehicle-lite neutered' (all vehicles removed except transports; Littlebirds and transports have their .50 cal guns removed; all mounted guns, including TOW, removed):
  Pros: People can still get to the front lines of combat to have infantry vs. infantry battles with these neutered transports. No one will be able to camp using the .50 cal of a Jeep. Vehicles would only be used as transports, for the most part.
  Cons: Transport vehicles will have no way to defend themselves. Models will have to be reworked to remove the guns and gun/turret positions reworked to be passenger seat (may be difficult?)

That's all I can come up with at this time. Personally, I think BF2 should not try to be like CS:Source. CS:Source was designed for very small infantry vs. infantry maps. BF2 has very large maps and not having vehicles in the game make moving around laborious and time consuming. One thing gamers don't like is waiting...that's why they like maps like Karkand because they can get to the action pretty quickly - baring the squad hopping feature that was disabled in 1.30.

To make a pure infantry-only change to BF2 you would have to remake maps much smaller because of the distances people will have to walk.

[sidtherat]

Re: No Vehicle option details

you want nice infantry mode?

take ANY 16p map, remove tanks, apcs, a.helis, jets, remove arty, leave transport, up the ticket ratio to 400%, let 64 players in, have fun - meat grinder :)

but, as many other things, it is much to hard for dice to understand. same as problem with plane whoring - make plane spawn time ZERO seconds. this way you cant CLAIM a plane for entire round TKing others, anybody can have his chance. simple, and you know - it works unranked :)

[Online1-0]

Re: No Vehicle option details

The question is. If EA in bfroe don't allow ranked servers, that don't allow the use of vehicles because they say is unbalance and a way to stat pad. Why they are making this now? Hope they have big refund to al those server they closed for this. EA and Dice would have to respond to them. Free server or give them money back. Some of those that got there server closed can have legal action against EA. EA would be breaking there own ROE with this in ranked. And by that, closing all those server was unfair. Better keep it unranked. Hope you know what you doing Dice. Theres money involve in this.

This is software right? The software industry never sells its "goods." It sells "rights" to use its intellectual property (the code). It's pretty clever because it really means they can do whatever they want. When you "buy" their software you are really only buying a license for it. To buy a license, you have to agree to their terms. Have you looked at the license agreement for the software for the ranked servers (or just the normal software if there is nothing specifically aimed at ranked servers)? I wouldn't be surprised if it gives EA the right to revoke the license whenever it wants for whatever reason it wants or to make changes in the game whenever it wants. Besides, nobody is forcing a server to upgrade to 1.4.

[Talus]

Re: No Vehicle option details

I'd love to jet and chopper respawns to be ZERO seconds.

That way, more people get a turn.

You're waiting...YOU get it.

[Bizna]

Re: No Vehicle option details

I only care about:
1. No Artillery. In public play, it is unskilled and unfair. Uber powerful spam weapons are lame.
2. No Jets. Unlike Desert Combat, BF2 refuses to allow the ground to defend itself reasonably. The combination of spamming commanders and spamming jets that the victims have no real way to fight back, make BF2 unfair. Hell, why don't they just give these cheap roles biological attacks that kill everyone on the map every minute?
3. Damage does not change. I don't want a lame water fight at a car wash. Weak weapons mean less strategy...what good is flanking your enemy if you can hardly hurt him before the 'fire fight dance' begins.

There is no doubt in my mind that if new server options are made to take away Jets and Arty and still remain ranked....those will be the most populated servers. It isn't that people don't enjoy commanding or piloting, it is just they are easy-mode and unfair to the rest of the players. I certainly would only play those servers...and I was a Desert Combat pilot, by the way.

[pommy80]

Re: No Vehicle option details

Here's my thought (and I'd LOVE the guys over at DICE to listen in)...

The reason that REAL firefights in REAL military contacts are so intense is because there is no spawn time. you get hit, and you are out of action, or worse... Buy upping the amount of hits a player can receive will not give the result you are after...

Example:

If I'm standing at the corner of a building and my squad are all with me and we need to get accross open ground to another building to continue to advance on a flag, I'd need to make certain that we could all sprint over to cover without getting mowed down (this is tactical thinking). If the hit damage is decreased, I could just go, knowing full-well that the whole squad could get over with some damage and then the medic in the squad could heal everyone.

So, my point is this - YES to the longer spawn time (makes you less inclined to do something that could get you killed), but NO to the lower damage points (this makes you more inclined to do something that could get you killed because you are less likely to get slotted.)

My vote is for realism.. And remember this, the evolution of any species (and I include your game in this) is because the strongest survive and the weakest grow stronger.. If you continue to soften the game for the people that are unable to play properly, you will find the game goes stale.. Keep it hard to win and it stays challenging and the weaker players will get better

Hope this helps...

[imported_Dr.D]

Re: No Vehicle option details

Remove Vechiles, Arty, And Car Drops

Done And Done!

[Harmor]

Re: No Vehicle option details

Remove Vechiles, Arty, And Car Drops

Done And Done!

If you did that you would never play on maps other than Karkand, Sharqi or Mastuur because all the other maps the flags are too far away from each other.

You have to have transports...the question is how many and whether or not they are neutered.

[JonnyMacFred102]

Re: No Vehicle option details

The solution is easy: Include only boats and jeeps/buggies, but take away the guns on top. That way going to flags won't take the time you should be using to fight.

[xtrstangx]

Re: No Vehicle option details

This would be amazing

[Bizna]

Re: No Vehicle option details

jeeps, buggies, and zodiacs were tuned so well, it would be a shame to not have them around. even with the vehicle guns, no one is going to say they make playing infantry not fun.

BF2 regular made it hard to have a straight up fight. The lame artillery from the heavens and the unchecked bombing from the planes made everyone scurry around. Don't be at the key strategic points, because that is going to get spammed. Better to stay away from friendly troops and ninja flags. And if you ninja, make sure you run away from that new asset, because again, the unchecked arty/plane spamming is coming your way. If someone said we are going to improve Counter Strike by adding a position that can see everyones' position and then drop a massive arty strikes all while hidden....how would that change how Counter Strike is played? If that was a server option, would it be popular? Hell no.

[gurgul]

Re: No Vehicle option details

When BF2 was released, I played all maps, people played all maps. Now I see only Karkand, Mahstuuuuuuur, Wake... Hey, I even wanted to go back and play that lovely BF1942. Sadly, too few servers runing and populated :-)

Please set everything back to original BF2 release. Fix bugs, add well designed "official" maps and thats all.

With all these core changes you created another game, this is not the BF2 game anymore, this is another game. I bought BF2, please give me BF2 back!

Gurgul

p.s. Yeah, not realy to cut off all changes, but you know what I mean.