Jets Need To Go Away

[colony]

Re: Jets Need To Go Away

I dont think jets SHOULD go away. But if they did, I wouldn't complain! There's a reason why people like maps like karkand, and it's not just because its close quarters.

Whether you want to admit it or not it sux to have someone good in a jet. All it takes a 1 great pilot to ruin a game for the other team. But honestly, it doesn't take 1 good tank driver, or 1 good buggy driver, or 1 good sniper to ruin it for the other team. Catch my drift?

Those are all inferior tools. Being good and staying up with a jet(excluding J10) for whole rounds takes skill.

Dont compare jets to tanks or lowly infantry vehicles

[imported_CannonFodder]

Re: Jets Need To Go Away

Lets just get rid of everyting and hit people with water guns and cotton balls

[wootoow]

Re: Jets Need To Go Away

Lets just get rid of everyting and hit people with water guns and cotton balls

No fair, that guy was using high pressure water!!!:laugh:

[colony]

Re: Jets Need To Go Away

Make the jets and choppers equal in destructability might fix that. Increasing the spawn times might also help.

You know what a jet is right? You know what a chopper is right?

How can you make them equal? Jets are for more devastating than choppers.

Spawn times wont help if you say every pilot goes 50-0, which means they dont die.

missile damage can be pretty random, in that sometimes 1 missle will put you in the red, other times it will be half health and the rest will either do a few bars or no damage at all.

now im going to tell you a little secret... flares are crap, so if a plane keeps flaring so you dont get a lock, fire BEFORE it flares, since many times at least one missile will ignore them and hit. hell ive had both ignore the flares before and hit me.

and dont expect to get your AA beefed up anymore... we've been there already and everything was getting blown up instantly no matter what.
the best you can hope for is that they will add 1 mobile AA to each team for every map.
@chris, they wont give 1 mobile aa per jet, no airvehicle would survive, cept maybe the f18 lol

flares work if you let them come between you and the missile and do hard turns away from it, all missiles should miss. Its a skill you have to learn to use well.

oh and there are maps that have more than 1 mobile AA per team. Taraba Quarry in Euroforce has 2 tunguskas per team and 2 jets per team with the reg AA turrets scattered about.

[Boojie]

Re: Jets Need To Go Away

Sigh. Jets are unbalanced in terms of the amount of points and the k:d ratios you can get - its self-evident: Do you ever see infantry get the scores a pilot gets? How about a tank? No. On the average pilots get more points and higher K : Ds than all other players. Some argue that Pilots are skilled this is why they have higher scores / K : Ds. This implies that the pilots are more skilled at flying than the infantryman is skilled at playing infantry. There's no objective way to test this but I'm willing to say this is BS.

So it's not Skill that explains the difference in scores / K : D.

Then the argument says 'if other players chose to dedicate themselves to eradicating air power this problem wouldn't exist'. That isn't the point - the point is that the average pilot when there are No mitigating factors can score hugely in comparison to other players. There are no analagous circumstances for the infantry player or the tanker; they can Never achieve such scores under any circumstances.

Some go on to say that a Jet should be more deadly - its a Jet! In realty this is true; as an overall threat, jets are quite lethal in comparison to everything else. Regardless, this is a game, and if we accept this statement, we are also accepting that in Battlefield, some approaches to playing should be better than others (assuming the point system is meant to measure Better) - its ok that a plane being what it is is the best path to points; therefore if you want the best score, to be the best battlefield player, you should be a pilot. Is that the type of game the community as a whole wants? A ****-poor flight simulator with some ground stuff thrown in for good measure? I think the core principle of Battlefield is Balance in all ways. Rock, Paper, Scissors - not Rock, Paper, MicroNuke.

So, provide a mechanism that brings the average Pilot score into balance, or stop misrepresenting the game.

Possible solutions:

Increase spawn times for Jets - scoring capability remains the same but is calculated over a smaller period of time in comparison to other approaches - evening things out.

Increase re-arming time for Jets - same as above.

Make Jets 'harder' - this attempts to reduce the scoring potential of Jets by making using them harder. Not very palatable since it potentially introduces more unrealism into the game and makes pilots have to learn fresh unlike everyone else (though it should be noted that adjustments to weapon accuracy are the same approach used for infantry)

Distinguish Jet scores from all other scores: Elminate the problem by eliminating the problem. Very difficult to make work in practice.

Make Jet counters more effective - this is not a solution either, since part of the problem is that Jets quite often have free reign over the battlefield where they are unopposed. Unlike infantry, tanks or helis, each of which can be effectively killed by any number of means, the Jets can only be killed by AA and themselves. And these have a behavioral dependency in that certain players have to want to fly or man AA in order to bring them down. Let me make this very clear as its a critical point: If I choose to play an Assault, a Sniper, Medic or any class, and carry out that class' functions, I am still able to deal with or damage any Infantry/Vehicle/ and almost always Heli threat that I face regardless of how much I feel like dedicating myself to that task. But only if I choose to sit in an AA turret/vehicle or fly a plane can I do anything to a Jet. So this would only work if there were some way to deal with Jets without having to dedicate myself to the task. Give portable AA to everyone, make AI driven SAM sites for example. None of this is going to happen because it costs resources to make it.

There are other solutions I'm sure, but its better to just hope this problem is addressed in the next game be it 2142 or BF3

Dude...That was a well thought out piece. You pretty much summed it up.

[zipp0r]

Re: Jets Need To Go Away

flares work if you let them come between you and the missile and do hard turns away from it, all missiles should miss. Its a skill you have to learn to use well.

oh and there are maps that have more than 1 mobile AA per team. Taraba Quarry in Euroforce has 2 tunguskas per team and 2 jets per team with the reg AA turrets scattered about.

most of the time yes, but not all and not like they used to in 1.2, but similarly trail the flares and fly at you again.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Jets Need To Go Away

Take a jet as a score multiplier.

Infantry 1X
Jeep 2X
Tank 3X
And so on

Although youve played 500 hours in a jet, and the infantryman has played 500 hours on land, youre using a superior tool which will boost up your KDR. Accoordingly, theres a matter of skills. An infantryman, with smart play and a little luck, can pull out a good score with 0 or 1 death. And same goes for the jets.

If we take the score multiplier as a rule set by DICE (its all hypothetical of course), you still have an unlimited multiplier depending on your skill level and experience.

There are some ways to make a jet make a lesser impact on ground. Or kick up the ground impact on jets. However, this only affects the set multiplier and not the personal skills and experience of a pilot.

I hope you got what I meant.

[DrJambo]

Re: Jets Need To Go Away

Take a jet as a score multiplier.

Infantry 1X
Jeep 2X
Tank 3X
And so on

Although youve played 500 hours in a jet, and the infantryman has played 500 hours on land, youre using a superior tool which will boost up your KDR. Accoordingly, theres a matter of skills. An infantryman, with smart play and a little luck, can pull out a good score with 0 or 1 death. And same goes for the jets.

If we take the score multiplier as a rule set by DICE (its all hypothetical of course), you still have an unlimited multiplier depending on your skill level and experience.

There are some ways to make a jet make a lesser impact on ground. Or kick up the ground impact on jets. However, this only affects the set multiplier and not the personal skills and experience of a pilot.

I hope you got what I meant.

Whilst this is pretty accurate summation of how things go, it's not a very fair way to run a game is it? Particularly when medals are awarded to those finishing in the top 3 places every round. By this logic you're admitting that good jet pilots will always be no.1 and chopper/tank whores no.2 and all the rest below, regardless of whether you're considered a good infantry player or not.

If that's the case then the game's unbalanced. Now, maybe the best way isn't to cripple the power of jets, choppers or tanks, but rather to award points to players using these vehicles in a more restrictive manner, for example, awarding them only 1 point per kill.

Balancing the field up on how easily points are obtained and I'm sure infantry players wouldn't feel nearly as much injustice as they do now. Because points mean medals, ranks and unlocks, it's no wonder that there's plenty of tking for these vehicles if they're the easiest way to top the table each round.

[DutchDelights]

Re: Jets Need To Go Away

Would be nice if jets had to actually land to re-arm and repair. Landing would take skill and some time. And it would add a little vernrabilltity (how do you say/spell?). After that no more whining.

[Bubas]

Re: Jets Need To Go Away

Infantary doesn´t like planes, planes are only countered by other planes.
Aviators and Helo planes will allways be on top of the Scores.
I don´t care what pilots say but it is much easier to own when your flying...but I really don´t care, it is much more fun to have the the feeling of eminent danger while in infantary than flying on a plane.
I respect much more very good inafantary players than a good pilot, just because it is much more dificult to be very good when you are ont he ground.

As for Jets I think they are part of the charm of this game, should be a little easier to shot down? Yes, I think so, but if you play well you´ll see that normally they won´t bother you much.

P.S. - I play on a clan, the first thing you want in some maps are the best Pilots gunners because we know that the team with the best pilots wins 90% of the time.

[Eternal-Souljah]

Re: Jets Need To Go Away

I'm not a jet whore, I hardly ever fly anymore since 01/06. I guess I don't like the freaking marathon at the airfield where like 14 out of 16 people are sprinting towards the jet in order to have 3-4 teamkills before the jet finally leaves. No thanks. Besides, I see that a lot of noobs take a jet up only to respawn within a minute because they ended up "tapping" a reactor tower with the afterburners on...

I dont understand how you can say that it takes more skill to ground pound than fly though...It takes little skill to play this game at all anymore...

The sad thing is your right.

Try to see it from the guy who made the topics point of view, hes a infantry player and he wants to be able to cap flags do teamwork etc on big maps without being bombed over and over again.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Jets Need To Go Away

NO ****ING WAY!

I had a long, objective post and I get this ****ing stupid error. Man these forums are ****ing me off. God damnit!

Whilst this is pretty accurate summation of how things go, it's not a very fair way to run a game is it? Particularly when medals are awarded to those finishing in the top 3 places every round. By this logic you're admitting that good jet pilots will always be no.1 and chopper/tank whores no.2 and all the rest below, regardless of whether you're considered a good infantry player or not.

If that's the case then the game's unbalanced. Now, maybe the best way isn't to cripple the power of jets, choppers or tanks, but rather to award points to players using these vehicles in a more restrictive manner, for example, awarding them only 1 point per kill.

Balancing the field up on how easily points are obtained and I'm sure infantry players wouldn't feel nearly as much injustice as they do now. Because points mean medals, ranks and unlocks, it's no wonder that there's plenty of tking for these vehicles if they're the easiest way to top the table each round.

In order to make people do what you need them to do in the vehicles, you have to "bait" them with points. Since BF2 is all about the points.

Sorry man, I had a long and somewhat interesting post with some nutty ideas, but this piece of ****ing DICEboard screwed me over.

[motorboatJones]

Re: Jets Need To Go Away

The jets are overpowered in the hands of a good pilot but not everyone can be a good pilot. Believe me, I have tried for months to master the skill. It's easy to bomb targets. The real skill is in air to air combat. I suck at it so I really respect those that are good at it.

Anyway, the best way to deal with the other team's jets is to snip them on the ground with AT rockets or the M95. There's nothing more satisfying than laying in wait for a pilot or two to jump in a freshly spawned jet and then sniping it with only ONE AT rocket or a bullet to the head of the unsuspecting pilots.

I especially like the AT rockets because it kills the jet not just the pilot. You might snip a guy with the M95 but another guy can get in while you reload. Also, with the At rocket you can take out the two guys in say the two seaters like the Su-34. It also takes out all the planewhores that are standing around the jet. You know how it is, all those lames stand around waiting for their precious toy so when you blow up the jet you get collateral damage kills, sometimes 3-4 at a time. It's awesome!


With a good team you can keep them out of the air
for quite a while.

[X-Pharaon-X]

Re: Jets Need To Go Away

When they are getting 50 kills to zero deaths, that means they are completely unbalancing the game.

even though this post was quite a while ago, but i just need to say this... me and my mate were saying this, and i total disagree, n i will tell u now :
read/understand this line::

ground unit -killed by-> helecopter -killed by-> jet -killed by-> on ground turrets

and the ground turrets are controlled by ground units, so its just a bacic circle...(thats what i think)

[IAJTHOMAS]

Re: Jets Need To Go Away

even though this post was quite a while ago, but i just need to say this... me and my mate were saying this, and i total disagree, n i will tell u now :
read/understand this line::

ground unit -killed by-> helecopter -killed by-> jet -killed by-> on ground turrets

and the ground turrets are controlled by ground units, so its just a bacic circle...(thats what i think)

Exaclty, but the circle is broken because the jets have a better chance of killing the turrets than they do the jets.