OK ... Why AMD Not P4?

[SFR-MAINE]

Re: OK ... Why AMD Not P4?

Actually Intel's (especially Prescotts) run considerably higher than AMD's, sometimes even 10C higher...

i beg to differ.

[|^|wulf]

Re: OK ... Why AMD Not P4?

No kidding. AMDs run at higher temps than Intel chips. Some see this as a disadvantage (which it sounds like when you say "AMDs run much hotter than Intel") but the fact is that the higher temps are just part of the design, and one can't compare the normal temp of an AMD to that of an Intel chip much in the same way that one can't compare a 2.0Ghz AMD to an Intel 2.0Ghz.

My AMD64 hangs out at around 40C (I just have a large Zalman heatsink and a couple of case fans.) If that were an Intel chip running at that temp, I would imagine that things would start to get a bit unstable.

By contrast, I don't even get an alarm until the temp gets up to 60C, and I think I've read that the chip can handle up to 82C. Those kinds of temps would kill an Intel chip.

But intels aren't designed to run that hot, and AMDs are, so it doesn't really serve any purpose to compare them.

[<DV8>mrbucket]

Re: OK ... Why AMD Not P4?

No kidding. AMDs run at higher temps than Intel chips. Some see this as a disadvantage (which it sounds like when you say "AMDs run much hotter than Intel") but the fact is that the higher temps are just part of the design, and one can't compare the normal temp of an AMD to that of an Intel chip much in the same way that one can't compare a 2.0Ghz AMD to an Intel 2.0Ghz.

My AMD64 hangs out at around 40C (I just have a large Zalman heatsink and a couple of case fans.) If that were an Intel chip running at that temp, I would imagine that things would start to get a bit unstable.

By contrast, I don't even get an alarm until the temp gets up to 60C, and I think I've read that the chip can handle up to 82C. Those kinds of temps would kill an Intel chip.

But intels aren't designed to run that hot, and AMDs are, so it doesn't really serve any purpose to compare them.

Not sure where you get your info, but not all intel chips have a nice cool core. A P4 northwood is a cool runner and it can easily go over 50c-60c the max on it is 85c. However a Prescott, which is different only in architechture, may start an idle for some at 50c+. And may have a load temp of over 75c. The max on it is 95c. Another measure that AMD does not offer is the system fail-safe. This occurs when the fan dies or the chip gets too much voltage or heat (kinda tied together). An Intel chip simply shuts down to protect itself in the precious moments. The AMD will go till it smokes and dies.

[F-1]

Re: OK ... Why AMD Not P4?

An Intel chip simply shuts down to protect itself in the precious moments. The AMD will go till it smokes and dies.

Not true!

I have an AMD64 cpu 4000+ and there is a setting in the bios that shuts down the system if it goes over 70C(user selectible) (Never been in that situation so I did not actually "test" it). I do not care if that is a bios or chipset or cpu feature. All I care about is that this feature is there in my system. I always had this feature in my system since I had that Athlon 2000+.

[<DV8>mrbucket]

Re: OK ... Why AMD Not P4?

Well duh, but most people have a problem with the settings in their bios.

[F-1]

Re: OK ... Why AMD Not P4?

That setting is usually set to a resonable default by the manufacturer.
I never heard of a problem that the people kill too many AMD cpus. I overclocked my system several times and never ran into such a problem. You actually cannot even boot if the temperature goes too high.

That is not an issue at all and I wont count that as an advantgae for Intel over AMD. on top of that those who know how to overclock the system should know how to set the temperature protection properly.

Next!

[<DV8>mrbucket]

Re: OK ... Why AMD Not P4?

It wasn't a bonus for intel, it's just general info. That's why i called it a system fail-safe. Just in case someone clears their c-mos and it doesn't default, which I've heard of happening. By the way, I agree that AMD is the better choice for a CPU, they are pulling a huge marketshare of all retail computer's right now at like 70%.

PS Even if a system isn't OC'ed, it can still overheat.

[[2bit]Modmaven]

Re: OK ... Why AMD Not P4?

Your first build cool! I have built many a computer and try to stay up with all the latest and greatest. I have put together a very nice bang for the buck system as follows....

Antec TX1050B ~ 120.00

120 bucks for a case?? Yeah, this one comes with a 500 watt Antec Power supply that is well worth the price of admission. Plenty of room too...

ASUS A8N SLI ~ 120.00

Great board that gives you SLI,(for future) onboard gig lan, the works. ASUS has always been great for me.

Athlon 64 3200+ ~ 165.00

Solid performer for little $$$ Bang for buck King

Kingston RAM 1gb (2x512mb) 99.00

Couldnt quite squeeze in low latency ram, but this stuff works great

Floppy+Media Reader ~20.00

Read your floppies and memory cards all in one device Sweet!

Lite-On 16X DVD Burner ~44.00

Solid cheap burner

Western Digital 250 GB 7200 RPM 8MB cache SATA Drive ~100.00

Sure, raptor is faster, but you cant beat like 40 cents a GIG!!

EVGA Geforce 6600GT PCI Express ~139.00
REBATE!! 20 bucks! This is an awesome mid range card that will let you play just about everything. You just wont be able to jack up ALL the settings.

All of this comes to about 780.00. The only stuff not in there is keyboard/mouse, monitor, and XP.

For additional guidance, www.tomshardware.com has some very good CPU and VGA charts on their main page that give you comparisons. Frag on!

[<DV8>mrbucket]

Re: OK ... Why AMD Not P4?

Your first build cool! I have built many a computer and try to stay up with all the latest and greatest. I have put together a very nice bang for the buck system as follows....

Antec TX1050B ~ 120.00

120 bucks for a case?? Yeah, this one comes with a 500 watt Antec Power supply that is well worth the price of admission. Plenty of room too...

ASUS A8N SLI ~ 120.00

Great board that gives you SLI,(for future) onboard gig lan, the works. ASUS has always been great for me.

Athlon 64 3200+ ~ 165.00

Solid performer for little $$$ Bang for buck King

Kingston RAM 1gb (2x512mb) 99.00

Couldnt quite squeeze in low latency ram, but this stuff works great

Floppy+Media Reader ~20.00

Read your floppies and memory cards all in one device Sweet!

Lite-On 16X DVD Burner ~44.00

Solid cheap burner

Western Digital 250 GB 7200 RPM 8MB cache SATA Drive ~100.00

Sure, raptor is faster, but you cant beat like 40 cents a GIG!!

EVGA Geforce 6600GT PCI Express ~139.00
REBATE!! 20 bucks! This is an awesome mid range card that will let you play just about everything. You just wont be able to jack up ALL the settings.

All of this comes to about 780.00. The only stuff not in there is keyboard/mouse, monitor, and XP.

For additional guidance, www.tomshardware.com has some very good CPU and VGA charts on their main page that give you comparisons. Frag on!

Not sure why you would recommend that system without a 6800 gt. Not to mention without a HD with 16mb cache, which todays hard drives are slightly under the speed of the raptor with the 16mb cache(hardly noticeable). That system will be considered slow and low end in a year.

[imported_shadow_vision]

Re: OK ... Why AMD Not P4?

Yeah well thats not excalty the best advice seeing as nvidia are better then ati at the moment.

Amd is better then intel for heat, watts, games, and business applications. Ie everything. Also price, go amd. And if you need to save some money just get a 6600gt or similar, you can pick those up for a resonable price.

okay .... this should keep all the nvida fanboyz quiet for a bit

$120 --- 9800Pro (128 Mb) is 380 core (22 Gb/s)
$129 --- 6600gt (128 Mb) is 500 core (16Gb/s)
$150 --- x800gt (256 Mb) is 392 core (31 Gb/s)
$180 --- 6800 (256 Mb) is 325 core (22 Gb/s)
$180 --- x800gto (256 Mb) is 400 core (31 Gb/s)
$250 --- 6800gt (256 Mb) is 450 core (32 Gb/s)

Next time you hear someone say : Dont get x8bla bla or 9800 bla bla ... just right click copy & paste baby

[Regent]

Re: OK ... Why AMD Not P4?

[2bit]Modmaven's post gives you a pretty good machine to start out with, though I guess I'd wait a bit longer 'til you have more money to spend on a video card. It's pretty tough to build a gaming machine that will play BF2 "lag free" for 700 bucks. You definitely don't want to waste money on a PCI soundcard for the initial build, as you can always add that on later. Buy the cheapest POS case you can find, then get the PS, Proc, Mobo and RAM sorted out. Don't bother with a small hard drive, as the dollar to gig ratio just sucks. Then the rest of your budget goes to the vid card, and don't pull the trigger until you have enough.... You'll just hate yourself later. Go for an X800XT at least.

My rig is 2 years old. I just upgraded it to 2 Gigs and an X800XT, and it runs BF2 just fine:
D8000 w/ Sound Dampening // 2x 120mm Panaflo
ASUS A7N8X Dlx. Rev 2.0 // 36 Gb WD Raptor+ Maxtor 300Gb
XP 2500+ AQXEA 03/31 @11x200= 2.2 Ghz @ 1.7v
SLK-947U+Panaflo 92mm 12H @ 24/36 Idle / 24/41 Load
2x 1Gb OCZ Platinum // Antec TP2-550
X800XT Platinum // Audigy 2

1 Gig of RAM will work fine, though. Good luck with the new build. ;-)

[claevade]

Re: OK ... Why AMD Not P4?

okay .... this should keep all the nvida fanboyz quiet for a bit

$120 --- 9800Pro (128 Mb) is 380 core (22 Gb/s)
$129 --- 6600gt (128 Mb) is 500 core (16Gb/s)
$150 --- x800gt (256 Mb) is 392 core (31 Gb/s)
$180 --- 6800 (256 Mb) is 325 core (22 Gb/s)
$180 --- x800gto (256 Mb) is 400 core (31 Gb/s)
$250 --- 6800gt (256 Mb) is 450 core (32 Gb/s)

Next time you hear someone say : Dont get x8bla bla or 9800 bla bla ... just right click copy & paste baby

Uhm... Those Gb/s don't really say to much about the FPS you get in a game. Check some benchmarks and you will agree. My 9800XT is much slower than the 6600GT for example.

[Faust13]

Re: OK ... Why AMD Not P4?

lil_john_norton said:Please for the sake of all that is good don't use a PSU that somes with the case. Go with: OCZ, Antec, FSP, or another more reptutable brand.

Yeah you can play BF2 on a wireless router, wireless can cause problems, but it should be alright"

Ok ... I will buy the case and PSU seperate but also
I said " can bf2 play on a WIRED router" but i dont understand why wireless have "problems"

this is the one im looking at : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833127158

I tried wireless but BF2 would constantly disconnect regardless of signal strength, QoS, firmware or router config (Linksys WRT54GS).

[Jaxx]

Re: OK ... Why AMD Not P4?

Yeah well thats not excalty the best advice seeing as nvidia are better then ati at the moment.

Amd is better then intel for heat, watts, games, and business applications. Ie everything. Also price, go amd. And if you need to save some money just get a 6600gt or similar, you can pick those up for a resonable price.

Again it is all an opinion and as i stated I (yes I said I not U) will only buy and use ATI and AMD products not Nividia and Intel!!

Oh and I buy all my stuff from these guys now http://www.cyberpowersystem.com/
I use to buy from http://www.ibuypower.com/mall/lobby.htm but they seem a little more pricey!! check um out!

[imported_shadow_vision]

Re: OK ... Why AMD Not P4?

Uhm... Those Gb/s don't really say to much about the FPS you get in a game. Check some benchmarks and you will agree. My 9800XT is much slower than the 6600GT for example.

if the core speed and the gb/s capabilities have nothing to do with how well the card will run bf2 ... then where can i look to tell me which card will run best?!? :p Seems to me that they would put the numbers up for a reason ><