article: loyalty

[tokkok]

Just go to sleep yall... this has been a loooong comments page.

[OnE9]

Edited by [user="2894"] @ [time="1031385463"]

lame article. loyality to a game is better than loyality to friends family and everything social?

[Serious Sam]

narby wrote..

Christ is this still going.



I'll reply tomorrow, it's 7:30am and I need to sleep.



I still don't think you're grasping the nature of language. Loyaty comes in a shitload of forms. We've gone over this about 3 times already.

You CAN be loyal to a particular brand or TV show. If I love my fax machine, I feed it ink regularly and hug it late at night, you can say i'm loyal towards my fax machine. Stupid, yes, but still true.



Let's try and stick to the facts. I never said you were a fool, I simply disagreed without on a particular point.

Attacked the weakest point of your argument? For that point you made it was the argument, not the weakest part. You made a point, which I disagreed with and gave evidence to support my reasons.



You're still acting obnoxiously. I'll be back tomorrow.

That's a damn fine fax machine isn't it? CS is a great stress releaver, especially since real guns cost mucho money.

[sniv]

Serious Sam wrote..

That's a damn fine fax machine isn't it? CS is a great stress releaver, especially since real guns cost mucho money.

Are you Serious, Sam? (haha get it? Am I not just a funny one.)

I wouldnt even think about real guns =X



Ok, well I thinnk that Counter-Strike is fun, and its made for fun. Not pro gaming. You're loyal to it as long as you play for fun. Even on a horrible computer. People who tune their computer like dual 2600+ processors with 2 GB of memory, GeForce4 Ti4600, 2 120 GB hard drives and a 21" flat screen (and i don't mean for a server) are freaks that have no life. My good ol' 1 Ghz is good enough for me

[JdeFalconr]

Edited by [user="2579"] @ [time="1031387392"]

littleolme wrote..

Ah, I tend to agree with you here. I think that most people who say that they are loyal to CS (the game) are indeed talking about CS (the community). In CS's case, the biggest captivating part of it is the human interaction in the game. I don't think that too many people would continuously play in an empty server for hours on end just to play Counter-Strike. Then again, there are some pretty strange people out there, so I guess you never know...



Let me ask you this...



Do you think that CS would be as popular as it is/has been if it were a single player game? Would you have kept on playing if it were a one man show?



Depending on your answer, it will decide where you stand. If you continue to play the game because the game is cool by itself, then you would say that you are loyal to the "game". If you are still playing because you are against/with other people in an attractive gaming enviroment, maybe have even made some friends there, then you believe you are loyal to the "community".

But the interaction with others that you rightly refer to as playing "against/with other people in an attractive gaming environment" is what I'm talking about. You make reference to this specific environment that, in your own words, is what I'm "loyal" to. Interaction in the style

of/within/through that specific environment is what I'm after, not just interaction.



[For any who may be wondering, I keep putting loyal in quotes

because, as pablo's argumentation has pointed out, the definition is

still up in the air.]



From what you're saying, consider this example: say there were two soccer teams playing a match and all the players on each team were having a great time in the game; the match ends and they cease having fun in the same way as they did while the match went on. (yes this is a realistic example, I know from experience.) According to your reasoning, the feelings the players experienced during the match weren't due to the match but simply because there were 21 other guys around them.



To clarify my point, I'm saying that I enjoy, perhaps even am "loyal" to, the interactions that go on through the medium of Counterstrike. Were that medium absent, I would no longer be "loyal" to it, nor would I be "loyal" to the community that depends on and has grown around the medium of interaction known as Counterstrike.



And now I will plant my flag, so to speak, and state what I believe to be fact, that the community came FROM Counterstrike, or rather was brought together by it. I don't understand the reasoning behind saying that, at least in the sense that Exo portrayed loyalty in his article, we are loyal to the community. I think the CS community as we know it grew (or was brought together, depending on how you think of it) in response to Counterstrike.



And isn't it interesting how we manage to start such involved, heated conversations on the most random of topics? Sure, content on CSN is often thought-provoking, as it should be, but yikes sometimes I wonder if we take it a bit too seriously. Then again, this was a rather lengthy post...=)

[mouth]

"Loyalty", at best, is a fairly romantic notion and as such, the definition will always be somewhat sketchy.



As far as i'm concerned, "loyalty" almost always involves some sort of sacrifice, some sort of obligation, tit-for-tat, which makes in inapplicable when referring to the "relationship" of gamer and a single game. You could say that people who only drink Coke products are "brand loyal", but honestly, "They like the way Coke products taste better than Pepsi products" is more accurate. If someone were to drink only Coke despite the fact that they like Pepsi better, would you call them "loyal" to Coke? No. You'd call them "goddamned idiot". I find that gaming is much the same. Let's cut through the bullshit so "loyalty" might have some sort of meaning. As far as my understanding of the word goes, "loyalty" to CS as a player would suggest that it's more of a "work" related thing, like practicing on the scale of a CPL participant. Most already know how i feel about that.



The basic gist of this is that gamers play what they want because they like it. No more, no less. It is not an issue of loyalty, but of preference. If a gamer plays something that he doesn't like regularly -even when he has something else he'd rather be doing/playing AND has the means of doing it- he is either a paid QA/beta tester or missing the point of being a gamer (eg. CS/Q3/UT/ zealot, much like the Mac or /. Linux zealot). Simple as that.



So, "loyalty" is fairly inapplicable to us. Attaching the tag of "loyalty" for playing games that suit us is like pinning a medal on a waiter for taking your order; what the fuck did you expect? Running a site like this might be considered "loyalty" on some level as we know that it takes a very different kind of effort to do so, and a decent amount of it. GonePostal actually brings up a good point with "developer loyalty", as you DO have a certain responsibility to your game's community at some point. But simply playing the game for enjoyment? No. That's simple "entertainment".

Wwv wrote..

Loyalty is when you keep supporting the game through the time you say to yourself the servers (and webpages) are full of lame idiots and you would be better off dropping it.

That sounds more like "Enjoying the game itself and the act of playing it despite everything else".

GonePostal wrote..

I have a spin off idea for the next article. Instead of fan loyalty, let's make a creator loyalty article and interview the creators of CS. I haven't heard shit from them from a long ass time.

That's one area where "loyalty" actually becomes a valid term. Unlike every other CS/Gooseman interview and ass-kiss piece, i'd actually like to see that.

pablo_m123 wrote..

and you obviously know that the best way to waste time is to have an argument.

The "best" way to waste time is to do something pointlessly. The best way to put forth your ideas and test them for the sake of progress is to have an argument, and don't you forget it. Saying that arguments are the best way to waste time is simply an admission that you're talking fluff for no good reason, not unlike a stereotypical Valley Girl. It's an admission that you're talking out of your ass. If you're that bored, talk to a fucking wall.

[TorchedN00dle]

Great article, Exo.

[tokkok]

i sincerely doubt if its a great article, i find it's totally lame, touching on the romantic topic of "loyalty" to a game.



sheesh

[Softy's 24/7 Fraggin]

Edited by [user="3670"] @ [time="1031400482"]

you can be loyal to the spirit of the game by playing as a team, remembering objectives and helping the noobs.

being loyal to the spirit of the game keeps it alive, bringing new people and keeping it fresh for the vets.

being loyal to the spirit of the game means respecting players skills and not cheating or falsely accusing others. (..sounding like Charlton Heston)



easy to learn. difficult to master.

[s4lvaTi0n]

fucking lozers, i wanna get banned nananana im a fucking pro-cheater!!!

[fantasychrono]

well I agree with Pablo, :P



cuz we will both own u in cs or warcraft 3

[WillHutch]

if your "loyal" to CS over your girlfriend thats more of an addiction than being loyal. Choosing a game over your woman = crazy.

[puffycloud]

s4lvaTi0n wrote..

fucking lozers, i wanna get banned nananana im a fucking pro-cheater!!!

The most intelligent thing to come out of this argument.

[Strider-aP-]

good read.

[doveer]

I'm a bitchass Retail foo.