cpoint: 4 years

[DirtyDevil]

seems like only a year ago cs was 3

[Julio Caesar]

"Let's not forget that the two fantastic maps that were made by Barking Dog are still around today, de_train and the so-good-that-it's-a-crime-no-one-plays-it cs_backalley."

Thankyou, someone who agrees with me that cs_backalley kicks ass!

[innes]

Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls of all ages, present your flamethrowers please. Happy 4th CS, you're still as youthful & sexy as ever. I sacrafice the blood of an idiot in exchange for your eternal youth. /sarcasm

Dictionary.com sayeth...

Veteran - A person who is long experienced or practiced in an activity or capacity

Sneaky, if this large group of players were as veteran as your biased memory seems to recall, i'm sure they could have taken care of these camping n00bs with their quick reflexes and amazing hand-eye coordination, all without stopping the hyper arcade gameplay you long so much for.



It's called "thinking". As much as you may want it to, throwing yourself into a brick wall time and time again will not solve your problem. At this point, I figure you got what you deserved. If you can't adapt to a changing demographic, then you get owned. Dinousaurs will die and all that.



Innovate, adapt, and overcome.



Sneaky, if you don't like camping, recoil, or the stumble step, why not trade your god-like p90 for a godlike rocket launcher and play f'ing Deathmatch Classic.



And while you're at it, take a nap.



Seriously, naptime for Grandpa.

[[SOSD]Shermanator-X007]

I forget what beta it was but none of you seem to remember all the HIT BOX ANIMATIONS (Gooseman called them "DEATH ANIMATIONS") that Gooseman put in, and how very cool they were. Back when he was replying to most emails he got, he replied to one I sent him.

When Valve took over they del. all of Grossman's death animations and put in the pissy death animations you see today. I told him how awesome the animations were and that I couldn't understand why they were taking out because there was nothing wrong with them, they didn't lag or slow down the game play at all in any way. In his reply he said that he didn't like that Valve got rid of them because he thought they were awesome too and that he had also put a *LOT* of time and work into them. He did say though that he would like to put them back in at some point in time. And that was all. Those animations were so cool, if you hit a T in the leg, arm, face, stomach ,back and so on, he had a different hit reaction. I remember seeing once a T getting shot by 3 Cts at the same time and it all most looked as if the T was dancing then the last shot hit him in the face and he fell on his back, rolled around in pain then died. Then all you saw in the text was ROFL. It was that funny. Now when you're shooting someone you can't tell if you're hitting them unless you see blood everywhere. In my opinion it made the game just that more fun to play and also was a little bit funny to see an CT or T get all shot up and react to just about every hit.



You gotta admit that the death animations *really suck* and can be much better.

[Spazm]

Why is everyone jumping down Sneaky's throat? All he did was post up some of his opinion, not even close to a flame, and all these people are flaming the hell out of him.



By veterans, he is most likely speaking of FPS veterans, people who have been playing the multiplayer shooters since Quake.



Yes, 5.2 DID feature much more individual skill. For those that just call it "running and gunning," you must have done only that. There is much more to it.



As for the stumble step, all that has added to the game is the incredibly stupid "jumping awp." That stumble step gives you the immobility needed to get perfect accuracy the instant you land. Given that CS seems to have a hard time hitting people jumping, this gives them a huge advantage. Its a classic example of the fix being worse than the problem.



rizzuh, you're an admin on this site, and this is POINT, COUNTER-POINT. Why not, rather than busting out the napalm, say, "Oh, thats what you think, interesting. But actually I think..xxx."



Of course I don't know shit about running a website. I actually did go try and play 5.2 with those special installs you can get. But there was only 1 lagged server, and those hit animations that caused people to float/sink in the ground was annoying! Too bad they couldnt' roll back all the recoil/gun behavior to 5.2 but keep the new models/animations (although I hated them when they came out.)

[Antinous-ODY]

As Sneaky was putting it, he seemed to say that the "running and gunning" was why the "vets" were so good and the "newbs" were so bad



Also, Sneaky didnt mention that it was his "opinion," just that this is this and that is that. He was trying to speak matter of fact, or at least thats the way it came out to most of us, and we feel the need to correct him. Call it flaming, hell I did, only because I knew someone else would see it as that.

[Solid Snake 88]

Imagine vehicles like Halo's Warthog (or Puma), with mounted weapons of all sorts.

Ha. Red vs. Blue rocks.

Great article.

[Vassily]

What Spazm said about the flaming. Sneaky has an opinion is all, it may be wrong, but it's still an opinion.

Anyway, this article was kinda neat because i've been playing the rollbacks over the last few days, back to beta 4.1, so i actually know what all this is about now O_o. The much argued on 5.2 plays like fucking Quake 2. That's not what counter-strike is to me, even though I loved Q2 and was very good at it, it's not CS. The changes have made the game generally better, and I'm extremely glad that I could patch as I wanted because there was some frustrating shit in the game in previous versions. Thank god for 1.4.

However, now I'm gunna get reactionary myself. why the fuck is valve making it so you can't tell who's dead and who's alive on the scoreboard? I use that thing as a tactics aide, if there's hordes of the enemy left i camp somewhere useful, if there's fuck all of them I go hunting.

And. The knife, the para, the UMP and the p90. The four most useless weapons in CS. The para literally so, you can't use it like a heavy machine gun is used in a traditional shooter OR like it is in real life. If they must insist on making it so bad, they should remove it.

The knife is terrible, I whole heartedly agree with the weapons section on CS Nation saying it should be a one/two hit kill weapon. Being sneaky enough to use the knife should be rewarded.

The UMP should just be removed. No one ever uses the damn thing because the mp5 does everything it can but better and for less $.

The p90, which apparently was designed as a weapon for armour crews who've had to bail out of their vehicle, sucks tbh. I remember relying on it pretty much every game when I started playing, but it's just gotten steadily harder and harder to justify buying. It's a newbie's gun, and should be left in for just that, but a *little* more accuracy wouldn't hurt.



Let the flaming begin, my skin's made of asbestos!

[Doodleman3]

Edited by [user="102996"] @ [time="1056007640"]

AS_ mode could be so fun if they just updated it like they do with the other modes(smarter hosties? +3 score for planting the bomb?). There's really only four things that need to be changed as far as I can see...



1.Add all of the weapons back in. Half the fun of CS is that I can run around with a USP one round an MP5 the next and an Aug the round after, but in AS_ mode they have removed about a third of the guns from each team and by doing that they have removed some of the fun. It can't be for balance reasons or the T's(who are trying to assassinate the VIP)wouldn't have the AWM and no Scout and therefore be able to complete there objective in one shot from across the map, they would have the Scout and no AWM instead if it was for balance reasons.



2.They need to give the VIP better equipment. I'm thinking a pistol that's unique to the VIP but if he gets killed someone else can pick it up, maybe something that combines the accuracy of the USP with the burst fire of the Glock like a Beretta 93R or something(yes I know that the 93R can go full auto but I think that that's kinda over-kill for the VIP). At the very least he needs to get full ammo for his current USP that way he can defend himself for longer while his body guards are off gallivanting somewhere.



3.Score needs to be awarded for completing the objective. This should attract the stat whores who hate completing objectives and reward the people who do like to complete them. Basically I think that any CT within like 10 game meters of the VIP when the he escapes should get a point Just for being there. The one who assassinates the VIP should get 3 points and the VIP should get 3 points for escaping(this shouldn't end in to high scores since AS_ rounds don't last for very long, hell it can end the second the first person dies). This way all the CT's will be trying to cover the VIP so he can escape and all T's will be trying to kill him, WOW what a wild Idea that is! Anything is better then the way it is now where the VIP doesn't even get a point for escaping even though he's winning the round for his team, he might have won the last three rounds for the CT and all he would have to show for it is some cash and the lowest score on his team.



4.New Maps. The other changes can be made so fast it's not even funny but this one is kinda hard to pull off and sadly it's the most important one. The other modes have tons of official maps and hundreds of custom maps too, but AS_ mode only has 2 official maps and the worst part is that CS's worst map is one of them and that's as_tundra although as_oilrig is pretty fun though but that's it, just one OK map. I could probably count the custom AS_ maps on one hand if I had ever come across one, which I unfortunately never have. Even as_oilrig needs new textures and better lighting(real oil rigs are very bright and colorful with oranges, reds and yellows everywhere it's caution! this and warning! that and also the workers are there for weeks at a time so it can't be dark and dreary cause they'd lose morale and not work as hard)it just hasn't been updated like the other maps have. There are too few maps also, I keep running into people who don't even know that CS has Assassination maps, its very sad. The same two maps can get tiresome no matter which mode it is, I mean I'm even sick of great maps like de_dust and de_aztec but Demolition mode has other maps for me to play when I get sick of those 2, I would say no less than 5 maps total. Anyway AS_ mode needs more maps and the old ones need a serious update.



....if Valve can fix those 4 things then the Assassination mode will be the great mode that I think it should be.

[mouth]

This CP seemed to go over pretty well, so i guess topics that encourage selective memory and give people a chance to basically talk about themselves are goldmines.



A small part of the reason that i'm so fond of CS' history ends up being because of some of the other things going on with online gaming. The day that i found out about beta 1 sticks out in my mind not only because it was an exciting new idea for a mod, but also because i first read about it from Redwood's black and red news site.



I clearly remember first telling a friend about it: "It's like Action Quake team mode, except it doesn't suck". As a direct result of that, i remember that same friend repeatedly killing me with the then-useful G3 before i could get out of the spawn point on cs_alley. I don't miss that map.



I remember having a point -maybe two- somewhere in this post, but i don't remember where they went.

asspennies wrote..

Beta 5.2 was fun, but a joke. The p90 was way too powerful and was often used in lieu of rifles. It was not uncommon to see an entire team running around with p90s.

The funny thing is that there are still people willing to say otherwise despite the threads and picture evidence posted on the old CS forums.



Now that i think about it, it seems that a lot of things have changed without the issues behind them being resolved. We STILL don't know why the hell the elites were put into the game, or why the majority of weapons were made completely useless, or why they remain useless for that matter. A lot of the game has turned into people having to adapt to stuff that doesn't make sense to begin with, which puts a huge damper on trying to discuss gameplay.

I'm glad it changed, and I say good riddance to all those who can't adapt. That was the time of the big "defection" to Hostile Intent, well over two years ago.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. You said Hostile Intent.

Spazm wrote..

As for the stumble step, all that has added to the game is the incredibly stupid "jumping awp." That stumble step gives you the immobility needed to get perfect accuracy the instant you land. Given that CS seems to have a hard time hitting people jumping, this gives them a huge advantage. Its a classic example of the fix being worse than the problem.

Except, not. The original QWTF was undoubtedly faster paced than CS is currently, yet even back then TF players knew that jumping was a big no-no when trying to evade a sniper. It's not that the "stumble step" makes jumping a bad idea, it's the fact that you can't change directions when you jump that makes jumping to avoid snipers a bad idea. Also, congratulations on not being able to figure this out yourself.



This quote response dedicated to MikeJ: Hugs and kisses, i hope the extra QWTF mention drives you to start an online diary.

rizzuh, you're an admin on this site, and this is POINT, COUNTER-POINT. Why not, rather than busting out the napalm, say, "Oh, thats what you think, interesting. But actually I think..xxx."

Point: Some stupid stuff about what 5.2 was.

Counter-point: What you just wrote about 5.2 was stupid, this is why.



Sounds like it's in accordance to the concept of point/counterpoint to me. It's not like this is point/mollycoddletheotherguysblatherings.

[Zorba the Geek]

WORST COUNTER-POINT EVER!



*cough* j/k

[marc___1]

Doodleman3 wrote..

I could probably count the custom AS_ maps on one hand if I had ever come across one, which I unfortunately never have.

http://cs-maps.us/index.php?page=maplist.php&type=as

[Barnsy]

Edited by [user="35121"] @ [time="1056020587"]

rizzuh: just a little precision: the P90 is from the Fabrique Nationale, which is Belgian, not French :) Anyways great counter-point. I remember playing on desert or bunker. Sigh, those were the days, youd spawn and thered be 50 paras and awps lying in front of you. Also flashbangs that did damage (you had to love those flashbang frags on cs_assault).

Oh and sneaky: any good veteran still has a distinct advantage over any n00b passing by, that is if they have gained any skill from their playing. If your getting owned, its your fault, not the game's..

[Vayalent]

Ive still got BETA 1 on cd. When it came out I never played online so it didn't interest me. Pity it doesn't work anymore, well it does work but no with the lastest version of Half-Life.



I installed it anyway and looked atthe maps using BSP View. Siege has hardly changed, well apart from the silly placement of the hostages. Assault looks almost the same, apart from instead of a ladder inside the warehouse you just have these two slopes, yes were are that stupid not to know how to make and then use a ladder.

[Olric]

Edited by [user="148234"] @ [time="1056023883"]

Doodleman3, there used to be another official AS map as well, as_riverside. Can't remember in which beta it was though.



I have been playing CS from the first betas too, and I have enjoyed most of the changes which it has undergone. Most of the bad things come from the community rather from the game itself in my opinion.



If there is one thing which would need to solved , it is the lack of new "instant classic" maps... What was the last map to become really a standard one to have into servers mapcycles ? Inferno ? That was more than 2 years ago... I hope that CS:CZ will bring some new fun, really playable maps, both for FFA and clan wars. Boredom is the most dangerous enemy CS has to face after 4 years.

Happy Birthday anyway, and thanks for the countless hours we have had fun playin' that game.