cpoint: 4 years

[Detonator^CSC]

Edited by [user="34979"] @ [time="1056029316"]

Thing I don't like is that valve stole the game from goosman making it their game. He doesn't really get no credit and without him there would be no counter-strike in the first place. I think valve can stfu and stay out of the production of CS2 and it should be GOOSEMANS project and not valves. Beta stages will be be fun and form more of a community. Gooseman dont let valve take over this time. Another thing thats on my mind is that CS is all in abit if a mess atm. I mean c,mon what do we have coming here: CZ, CS1.6, CS2, Half-Life 2. Which is going to be the standard Counter-Strike that we all know and play. Its all getting a bit messy. I also miss the beta days when CS was less commercialized and everything was more undeground. Thats why i tried to create a new and exiting community CS-Classic, you may remember this mod which got a great review from rizzuh LOL. Im thinking of making a new 1 of these so watch this space. Just to get a feel of a new community and beta testing, its really fun.

[Dangki]

New maps were added or changed every month back in the beta days. Now that rarely happens giving people more than enough time to get sick of maps and overplay new additions. Hopefully with Steam we'll see new maps and tweaks added fairly often.



The best things I remember about the great beta days are in fact the first time we realised we could make human totem poles aswell as jumping of the roof of cs_DEA and cs_assault. I barely remember doing anything else but I guess that was the greatness of the UK CS scene back in the day.

Detonator^CSC wrote..

Thing I don't like is that valve stole the game from goosman making it their game. He doesn't really get no credit and without him there would be no counter-strike in the first place. I think valve can stfu and stay out of the production of CS2 and it should be GOOSEMANS project and not valves. Beta stages will be be fun and form more of a community. Gooseman dont let valve take over this time.

I'm sure they paid Gooseman well for something he did in his spare time. And about CS2 who do you think are funding the damn thing? Do you have any idea how the real world works?

[SuddenFear]

Suprised no one has mentioned the good old scoped Colt. Who needs an AWP when you can silently and accurately blow people's heads off from a tasty distance. And speaking of AWP, I only enjoyed it when it sent the victim flying back - enemy and teammate alike. Much fun in playing "AWP Sumo" on cs_assault's outside tower. ;D



And Havana 0wnz0rs. =|

[lockhart]

The reason the scoreboard change (removal of DEAD tags on the other team) is a bad idea is that it is just one more advantage given to teams like mine who use Ventrillo or other outside voice programs. We'll just be giving updates to them while we're dead and they're alive.



Have any of you played the Superhero mod? The most interesting thing about that mod is when people have the speed upgrade, the MP5 becomes a real purchase option after the saverounds. When you're running really fast, you can dodge a colt/ak well enough to get the usual 5-7 bullets into your target. I think that the walking and running speeds should be just a tad faster so we could see the MP5 be more viable in the game.

[asspennies]

SuddenFear wrote..

Suprised no one has mentioned the good old scoped Colt. Who needs an AWP when you can silently and accurately blow people's heads off from a tasty distance.

I believe I mentioned the "magic cheat stick" - the scoped Colt. What a killing machine that was.

[Dangki]

The new scoreboard 'dead tag' thing just reminded of when they removed the frags form the scoreboard as a way to make the game less about individual scores.

[FatboyTim]

I started properly playing CS when beta 4 was released in November '99. Beta 4 was great I think, for 2 reasons. Firstly, the majority of the more-annoying "features" had already been either fixed or eliminated (eg. dodgy bullet penetration, gun running, automatic .wavs, seperate ammo for different calibre weapons, etc.) Secondly, Beta 4 featured the new 'defusion' mode!



A couple of months later, Beta 5.2 fixed a number of minor bugs from Barking Dog's implementation of CS. It will always be remembered by some as the 'classic' rendition of the game for a one main reason: It was the most-advanced version of "basic CS". Does that make any sense? Let me explain...



IIRC, Beta 5.2 was the last version that featured left-handed weapons only, and the last version before they added radar. It was the last version to reward major exploits in basic movement (i.e. wall-strafing, knife running etc.) and lastly, it was the last version before the escape and assassination scenarios were added.



So, from Beta 6.0 onwards, the look of the game changed (right-handed guns, radar), the feel of the game changed (speed, etc.) and even

the way we played the game changed (new less-popular scenarios, etc.). Additionally, I think this was the last version that included an M4A1 that was always silenced and had a scope!



On a personal note, the beta also featured one of my favourite maps ever - cs_iraq. IIRC, it also still had the client-side option to display 'ghosts' (again, removed in the beta 6.0?)



The biggest controversy that I can remember in CS history though, was the addition of the 'new' anti-lag netcode in beta 6.5... I can remember getting into some rather heated 'discussion' about it's fairness on the forums! Thankfully, (as I'm still unable to get broadband here,) I successful gave up shouting "BS!" at my monitor... and like everyone else, I moved on and adapated fairly quickly.



Edit to add: My favourite version (like most) will probably always be the current one. :)

[Detonator^CSC]

I know exactly wot u mean Tim

[Ravenium]

Like all evolutions of games, the current version 99% of the time lends itself to being the "best" one. Most development groups worth their salt will generally update/fix/tweak in order to respond to issues, take out bad ideas, etc. If they don't, their community dies and becomes an "also ran". Witness the unfortunate effects of suppressive fire in frontline force, which was a great mod (maybe not cs scale, but fun) until this change drove people away even after it was fixed.



I think the two things I mourn most about the transition to cs being "valve's game" are the following: community and lack of new features. One is in their power to control, one is not. For example:



1. New features. I admit, the shield and new rifles will be interesting in 1.6, but do you remember when you were nearly drooling to see what cool little doodads cliffe and gooseman were going to add into the next beta? (I know rizzuh is still waiting in vain for the yogurt cannon!) To bastardize a Woody Allen quote, "A halflife mod is like a shark - it has to keep moving forward or it dies. And what we've got on our hands here is a dead shark". If you more recent cs players want an example of a mod in progress that includes oodles of goodies every release, is released often, and is well cared for, check out the bf 1942 mod Desert Combat. Their team is nothing less than amazing in the amount of toys, features, maps, etc that they add to each release.



2. Community. There once was a time when this game was the sole province of druken college students. Most places didn't have effective broadband, so the vast majority of players were college or otherwise. There were no server hosts charging 100 bucks a month for a server - there was just that spare desktop I parked on my desk with linux that became an odd attraction of its own due to my college's (at the time) blazing fast DS3. No CAL, no CPL. My server had a community of people, people that would actually laugh, joke around on the server, greet each other like proper regulars. Not that it was all peaches and cream, of course - like every server, there are troublemakers. But overall, the attitude was far more friendlier, and people generally were not pretentious.



Contrast that to the situation you have today. People take themselves WAY too seriously - look at the entire "esports" fanboy bunch these days and witness what might just be one of the worst things to happen to an honest game. When did this game go from people goofing off and having friendly "team battles" to people calling each other "newb" and "fgt", and having some misplaced form of respect or worship because of how someone plays in a league or what level they are?



I was watching a friend hawk his ventrilo servers the other day. An unmentioned cal-i team came in to ask about them. He replied "sure, they're x dollars per month for 10 people". The person replied "we're cal-i, we don't pay for anything." How in 4 years did we suddenly all think we're so fscking special due to how well we play a game?



Anyhow, sorry to ramble, but I think the point is that the community has evolved into something horribly twisted, something I guess is an unfortunate consequence of the game's popularity. I can't believe you have "veterans" or "leet" people claiming the game is "too easy for newbs" or to go so far as to accuse the author of changing the game for their own skill level...that's just a horrid, horrid excuse for not adjusting.



---



To end on a lighter note...



Funniest thing I miss - planting C4 anywhere on the map! This was actually a TACTIC for pubs where the t team was getting trashed. Take nuke for example...you'd make the ct's creep up on your spawn point, but have someone plant the c4 behind the building or some such. You'd have them come just close enough and BOOM, 3/4 of them would die from the explosion, leaving your terrorist team to take out the rest in greatly improved odds. And people don't think the betas were deathmatchy

[rizzuh]

Spazm wrote..

rizzuh, you're an admin on this site, and this is POINT, COUNTER-POINT. Why not, rather than busting out the napalm, say, "Oh, thats what you think, interesting. But actually I think..xxx."

It's about time that you guys realize that when I post opinions it doesn't mean the discussion ends. I'm just offering a Counter-Point to their Counter-Point and people know by know that arguing wtih me does not equate to a ban. Hell, there hasn't been a single deleted post in this topic.

[Ravenium]

Even after my yogurt cannon comment? :) darnit.



One other beta remorse - what's this crap with "Player"? I mean real games have a default name of Beefhole, Blaster, or Sir Knumskull...did I miss one?

[Pharlap]

Julio Caesar wrote..

"Let's not forget that the two fantastic maps that were made by Barking Dog are still around today, de_train and the so-good-that-it's-a-crime-no-one-plays-it cs_backalley."

Thankyou, someone who agrees with me that cs_backalley kicks ass!

i too love the maps most others hate for some reason or another.

[FatboyTim]

Backalley is still a great map.



Beefhole and Blaster take me back though...



http://inph.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=349



Didn't the original version of this appear on the cs.net forums?

[Pharlap]

rizzuh wrote..

It's about time that you guys realize that when I post opinions it doesn't mean the discussion ends. I'm just offering a Counter-Point to their Counter-Point and people know by know that arguing wtih me does not equate to a ban. Hell, there hasn't been a single deleted post in this topic.

we scared of you.... :/

[Para?noid]

I miss the big dam map. I doubt anyone else does.



What was the big dam map called again?