cpoint: 4 years

[SinaC]

Edited by [user="2964"] @ [time="1055988640"]

id love cs2 to have a beta stage. and i think that there should be a cvar to enable/disable dead ppl on the scoreboard. from the little that ive played the latest 1.6 beta, i hate it. it just looks different. i swear that everything looks weird. and the text is ugly and big now. fun.



o and the last thing i want is cs2 to turn into a bf1942 look alike... stupid bf1942.

[Sneaky]

I'm positive the change was made in beta 4. People might of tried to continue to use it in 5 but it wasn't the same gun. They nerfed it because of all the whoring. It didn't last long but was fun while it lasted :).

[Antinous-ODY]

On with the flaming...

Sneaky wrote..

Also the difference in skill between newbies and vets stuck out big time. This is really why the game changed. The gap in skill shined because people were moving around corners faster and the newbies couldn't keep up with their cross-hair. So they cried to the creators and they slowed everything down and add recoil so the newbies had a chance. Even goose changed the game to suit his own abilities in game.

Recoil was added to help the n00bs eh? I think it was added for a more realistic feel and so that the game was not a deathmatch game. It is called Counter-Strike, which would insinuate the use of tactics or at least that the game has a moderate level of realism.

Sneaky wrote..

Instead of attack, rush and slaughter the whole team it turned into hide, camp and use bitch tactics to get a kill. Made it a lot better for the newbies but the veterans hated it. I know that the community had a large falling out after 5.2 where many veterans left and swore never to play again. Of course that happens each new update but this was the biggest.

Right... those newbies just knew that it was a good idea to camp when they needed to, they never learned those spots from other people.. Naw



Also why would the most people leave after 5.2? I would think after 1.3 would have been the biggest because the following was much greater then and it seemed to be the most controversial. But anyway, did you ever think they didnt want it to be an arcade game??

Sneaky wrote..

5.2 had accurate aim and speed. People wanna put realism over gameplay. Well if I wanted realism I'll go enlist. I don't wanna pause after I jump because some idiot found a bug in jumping. Fix the bug don't penalize and slow down gameplay even more.

So.. go play tfc if you arent looking for realism (sorry tfc fans but even my friends who play TFC say they play because of the lack of realism)

There was no bug in the jumping, unless you mean that you were able to keep jumping at the same speed. That wasnt a bug, they wanted it that way but people abused it. The acceleration was there yes, they fixed that but you could still jump at the same speed as running only silent. So they made it so that you werent able to do that. I hate ppl who flame the jumping change, it was a good change that people who used to exploit the jumping didnt like having to adjust to.

Sneaky wrote..

This game is challenging for the veterans now because the newbies actually have a chance. If they speed game back up they will separate them out again because newbies can't keep up. It comes down to reflexes plus hand-eye coordination. Some have it, some don't.

Maybe it's challenging because they wanted to give the "veterans" a game that they wouldnt get sick of and quit playing. Maybe that would be a good marketing tactic...

Sneaky wrote..

You can't accommodate everyone but if you do pander to the newbie then you sell more copies. This is why CS got newbified(is that a word?).

I think that they made it more challenging so that the "vets" would get more people playing and they could have a community that lasts.

CS got more advanced not more newbified? No. The gameplay got more challenging to give "Vets" something to work for instead of just a fast reaction time.



Go back to being pissed off at the world and play some Quake or UT2k3

[rizzuh]

Edited by [user="2065"] @ [time="1055988987"]

Sneaky wrote..

I'm positive the change was made in beta 4. People might of tried to continue to use it in 5 but it wasn't the same gun. They nerfed it because of all the whoring. It didn't last long but was fun while it lasted :).

I know it happened in 4.1, where the changed the AWP and added a new SAS model. It stayed basically the same into BETA 5.



http://csnation.counter-strike.net/articles.php/1/3/



This was written 3 months after BETA 6 so i don't think my memory was sketchy at all.



Over-all I find anyone who wants BETA 5.2 to return very shallow. While you and bds might profit based on personal skill, it's obvious that dozens of things that have added teamplay to the face of CS (where-as the game used to be very deathmatchy) would be removed.



I don't know where you get off saying BETA 5 was a vet's game. The longest someone could be playing CS at the time BETA 5 was released was 6 months. In comparison, that's like calling someone who started playing CS when 1.6 BETA was released a vet.



BETA 5 was CS in its infancy and I think too many people like you glamorize a fairly unremarkable three month period where the game was unbalanced.

[Sneaky]

Antinous-ODY wrote..

On with the flaming...Go back to being pissed off at the world and play some Quake or UT2k3

I wasn't trying to create a flame war and I'm not pissed off about the changes or the world. I think had they CS team listen more closely to the community it could of worked out better for both groups of gamers and been closer to the game both wanted.



At this point it doesn't matter. I just brought it up because of this article. We can only hope there is more skill involved in future iteration's.

[rizzuh]

Sneaky wrote..

I wasn't trying to create a flame war and I'm not pissed off about the changes or the world. I think had they CS team listen more closely to the community it could of worked out better for both groups of gamers and been closer to the game both wanted.

What? CS hasn't suffered negatively at all because they changed the running speeds to be something less than sound waves. In fact the vast, vast, vast, vast, vast majority of "professional" gamers begun playing CS well after the changes were introduced.



BETA 5.2 wasn't some sort of pro-mode. Things like CAL-i didn't even exist. Your limited personal experience doesn't reflect on competitive play which I feel you're linking to 5.2 in an arbitrary manner.

[Serious Sam]

If you want to know what the people are csc think;



http://www.cscentral.com/forums/showthr...hreadid=17595



.ss

[Spazm]

Amen Sneaky. I'm still playing, (and greatly enjoying) Counter-Strike, but I couldn't agree with you more. 5.2 was always my favorite version, and I know of quite a few friends that stopped playing the game after the beta 6 changes.



Of course me and my friends all migrated to CS from Quake/Quake2, so that had a lot to do with it =)

[Sneaky]

Edited by [user="3097"] @ [time="1055990514"]

rizzuh wrote..

I know it happened in 4.1, where the changed the AWP and added a new SAS model. It stayed basically the same into BETA 5.



http://csnation.counter-strike.net/articles.php/1/3/



This was written 3 months after BETA 6 so i don't think my memory was sketchy at all.



Over-all I find anyone who wants BETA 5.2 to return very shallow. While you and bds might profit based on personal skill, it's obvious that dozens of things that have added teamplay to the face of CS (where-as the game used to be very deathmatchy) would be removed.



I don't know where you get off saying BETA 5 was a vet's game. The longest someone could be playing CS at the time BETA 5 was released was 6 months. In comparison, that's like calling someone who started playing CS when 1.6 BETA was released a vet.



BETA 5 was CS in its infancy and I think too many people like you glamorize a fairly unremarkable three month period where the game was unbalanced.

When I say vet/newbie what I'm really saying is Vet/Good Players versus Newbie/Sucky Player.



I also remember whoring the P90 in beta 4 because it was easy and not being able to do the same in 5.2. Did you even use the P90 in 5 or did you just complain about the people that did? The mp5/awp were the weapons of choice in 5.2. That's all I saw in matches never a P90.



I don't want to go back to 5.2 of course. All I'm saying is that it separated out the talent more than now and it's a fact. Slower = Easier to hit. There were still tactics in 5.2 but you could also hold your own if you had to and I did.



If you think my "limited experience" (which is funny) somehow makes my point invalid then how bout asking people playing competitively now that has played since 5.2(which is hard to find) which version they think had the best gameplay/talent.



I have always gotten agreement that the game is too slow. Go ask Ksharp see how he feels. His experience should be adequate.

[Pharlap]

great counter-point. always enjoy reading about the good ol' days.

[rizzuh]

Sneaky wrote..

I have always gotten agreement that the game is too slow. Go ask Ksharp see how he feels. His experience should be adequate.

Sure and let's ask Sammy Sosa if baseball should allow corked bats.



Yeah it's great and all that you claim 5.2 was this ultra-super competitive game super duper. For nine months of Counter-Strike's 48 month existence, it was a really fast game. That doesn't mean it lent itself to competition or anything.



In fact, everything leading to CAL and making CS into the official CPL game happened after BETA 6 was released:

http://csnation.counter-strike.net/cont...news&type=all



Linking 5.2 to skill and competition is stupid, especially since a large minority of those who are skilled today never even touched 5.2. I don't think they'd just magically perform the same with 5.2 either.



Everyone's experience with 5.2 was limited. STA-CS was not the pinnacle of CS team play, give me a break. Three months is not enough to claim yourself expert on anything, and considering this type of gameplay only lasted for 9 months--less than CS 1.5 has been out--then I doubt there is any sort of overwhelming evidence proving 5.2 to be more suited for competitive play than your opinion.



And your opinion said that CS 1.4 would make everyone camp corners and competition would turn into slow waiting games. Yeah, right. Thanks Ms. Cleo.



.ss

[Sneaky]

I didn't say that everyone suddenly lost there skill in this version. I said the talent/skill stood out more in beta 5. Yes, there is more camping now than there was so I don't think that's a good thing.



It's hard to argue with sucky players anyhow they think there always right :)

[thor2488]

Shadow wrote..

I hope CS2 will have improved vehicle controls and better graphics. It might become the Halo of PCs!

Halo is coming out for PC....



Sorry, saw that, had to jump on the nonmoving bandwagon.

[HoMiCyDe]

nice article

sums up the last 4 years very well, heres to another 4.



CS is more frustrating now than before, probably because of the lessened emphasis on personal skill, and more "immature" community.



Im hoping cs2 will be everything we want , and more ;0.

[Antinous-ODY]

go rizzuh!!11 w00t

but in 5.2 there wasnt any real talent. it was just run and gun. the skill comes when there is an actual amount of tactics, teamwork, and other stuff going on.



The gap between scores may have been the largest then but is that a good thing or does that just mean that the game is just very unbalanced?

appended @ [time="1055996292"]

looks like once again what i said was added to a previous comment and i did not intend for it to be that way

rizzuh that was a response to Sneaky