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EA Says Steam Sales "Cheapen Intellectual Property"

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  • EA Says Steam Sales "Cheapen Intellectual Property"

    Start scratching your heads now because the following statements from David DeMartini (Senior VP of Global Ecommerce at EA), don't make a damn bit of sense. In talking with GI.biz, DeMartini made a huge number of comparisons between Origin from EA and Valve's Steam service. Let's just get on with this to see what he had to say.

    Q: One of the things that Steam does is this random deep-discounting of software, and it works well for them. Do you see that as something you want to do?

    David DeMartini:
    We won't be doing that. Obviously they think it's the right thing to do after a certain amount of time. I just think it cheapens your intellectual property. I know both sides of it, I understand it. If you want to sell a whole bunch of units, that is certainly a way to do that, to sell a whole bunch of stuff at a low price. The gamemakers work incredibly hard to make this intellectual property, and we're not trying to be Target. We're trying to be Nordstrom. When I say that, I mean good value - we're trying to give you a fair price point, and occasionally there will be things that are on sale you could look for a discount, just don't look for 75 percent off going-out-of-business sales.

    Q: Isn't that in some sense an old-school way of looking at it based on cost of goods? When your cost of goods is basically your transaction costs and your server costs. Even when they discount a game by 75 percent, they're still making money on it. It's not the margin that's important, but the total amount of revenue that's coming in. If by discounting it that much on a weekend they then kill the sales going forward, or they kill the sales in retail stores for the packaged versions, that could be a concern. But Gabe has said that as far as they can tell when they've done that it hasn't affected sales in other channels.

    David DeMartini:
    Actually, Gabe will usually say it improves sales in other channels because if the game is good there are some water-cooler moments and it has a spring-up effect. Without revealing too much, what I'll say is one way to deal with aging inventory is you do deep discounts like that. There are other ways, which I can't really talk about, of dealing with product as it ages over a period of time, where you present a value to the customer and you engage them in your service on a going-forward basis. We don't believe in the drop-it-down, spring-it-up, 75 percent off approach, but we've got something else that we do believe in that we'll be rolling out.

    But I absolutely understand your point, and I'm not not-hearing what you're saying. We don't have the old-school approach that you're describing; we're all about building as big a universe as we can, and there are multiple ways to build the universe. One way is to discount the price, the other is to form a longer-term relationship with them and draw them in that way.


    And yet, when games are first released they're consistently on the top sellers for Steam. Or when they're worth picking up, they're worth picking up without a sale as Arma 2 has proven thanks to the Day Z mod. But alas, sales simply cheapen the IP of a company, you heard it from DeMartini, folks.

    (via)

  • #2
    EA talks shit more like?

    Comment


    • #3
      It's all getting a bit silly really. BigGame seems to be confused about how to maintain their revenue streams. It's pretty simple: make something that is entertaining, don't try to restrict our enjoyment of it via always-online/monthly-fee nonsense, and offer it at a price that makes it accessible to the largest number of customers.

      I think BigGame's big problem is that they are still stuck in the last decade, you know, when abundant credit meant that customers became consumers, gorging themselves on every oddly shaped plastic encased console and shiny disc that was thrown at them by developers. Consumers neither received nor demanded respect from BigGame. It was BigGame's world, and the ordinary folks were happy to pay whatever was asked of them.

      Revenues shot up and the good times kept on rolling with no end in sight... until now. Luxuries are once again treated as luxuries, not necessities. And electronic gaming has once again been designated a luxury by the people. Now people are returning to the 90's model of having one console and buying games only for that. The age of the customer has returned, and economic realities are making them much more discerning of quality and expecting gaming-liberty: those companies which can adapt quickly to provide both, at the lowest possible price, will win. BigGame will not.

      The problem is that BigGame is the natural result of an addiction to enjoyment at all costs, which ended at the beginning of the present decade. Higher prices during the boom years did not reduce demand. Higher prices with added restrictions has led to reduced demand in the present era. BigGame does not understand simple economics: lower prices = more sales = more profit.

      Comment


      • #4
        Thats the difference between the real world and corporations. Gotta make a spin no matter how ironic or idiotic it may be.
        Twitter: @CptainCrunch
        Battlelog/Origin: CptainCrunch

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        • #5
          I know it's not a popular perspective, but he's got a point to a degree. There's countless times that even with new releases, people say they'll just wait for a sale, because it's become expected. Wait a month or two, it's half off. Wait a little longer, you might get it for 66% or 75%. It's great for the consumer. Also, new releases tend to be at the top because it's based on dollar amount, so a $60 game is more likely to sit up there than what's on sale for the week. I'll be honest, I love the sales. I have a lot of games that I've enjoyed that I wouldn't have otherwise purchased if it wasn't for the sale. Games are getting more expensive to make and they're also devaluing much quicker, too, so the profits that big AAA devs aren't coming in at the same rate anymore. This is part of the reason why there's fewer new IP's and more rehashes of what works, and why the $60 game doesn't come from the small studios anymore. Obviously, EA's pandering to the publishers who dislike Steam, getting them to make a switch. But if EA were in Valve's shoes, they would do the same thing. Activision has seemed to embrace Steam, and Bethesda even more. Origin's got a long way to go to catch Steam, but with Battlefield and Mass Effect 3, they're making progress.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: EA Says Steam Sales "Cheapen Intellectual Property"

            And when you have games that never go on sale to such a huge reduction? Then people who were going to wait on a sale aren't going to buy it anyway. It's an even BIGGER loss flat out losing sales than if there are the one off times that it goes on sale for 75% off.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: EA Says Steam Sales "Cheapen Intellectual Property"

              Originally posted by Buveed
              I know it's not a popular perspective, but he's got a point to a degree. There's countless times that even with new releases, people say they'll just wait for a sale, because it's become expected. Wait a month or two, it's half off. Wait a little longer, you might get it for 66% or 75%. It's great for the consumer. Also, new releases tend to be at the top because it's based on dollar amount, so a $60 game is more likely to sit up there than what's on sale for the week. I'll be honest, I love the sales. I have a lot of games that I've enjoyed that I wouldn't have otherwise purchased if it wasn't for the sale. Games are getting more expensive to make and they're also devaluing much quicker, too, so the profits that big AAA devs aren't coming in at the same rate anymore. This is part of the reason why there's fewer new IP's and more rehashes of what works, and why the $60 game doesn't come from the small studios anymore. Obviously, EA's pandering to the publishers who dislike Steam, getting them to make a switch. But if EA were in Valve's shoes, they would do the same thing. Activision has seemed to embrace Steam, and Bethesda even more. Origin's got a long way to go to catch Steam, but with Battlefield and Mass Effect 3, they're making progress.
              What you say is true, however, look how many times BF3 has been on sale. It was on sale before it was released. I bought my copy for something like $25-30 US. Every holiday it goes on sale also.

              For those waiting to buy BF3, July 4th is coming up. Guess what will be on sale.

              Then there is Origin. Steam is so bad and "evil" yet they remade their EAStore, what, 3 times, to where we now have Origin?

              Im sorry, he may have said Steam and used them as an example, but thats only because he would be fired for saying Origin.
              Twitter: @CptainCrunch
              Battlelog/Origin: CptainCrunch

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: EA Says Steam Sales "Cheapen Intellectual Property"

                Originally posted by CptainCrunch
                What you say is true, however, look how many times BF3 has been on sale. It was on sale before it was released. I bought my copy for something like $25-30 US. Every holiday it goes on sale also.

                For those waiting to buy BF3, July 4th is coming up. Guess what will be on sale.

                Then there is Origin. Steam is so bad and "evil" yet they remade their EAStore, what, 3 times, to where we now have Origin?

                Im sorry, he may have said Steam and used them as an example, but thats only because he would be fired for saying Origin.
                I was going to come here and say the same thing. BF3 seems to almost always be on sale when I check. It was just on sale this past weekend for $10. You can get coupon codes for 35% off from EA to anything a month (I believe) old in their store by saying it is your birthday. Sure, Origin doesn't have Summer Sales and such on the scale of Steam, but that is likely only due to their lack of inventory.
                Battlelog/Origin ID - Hurricane043

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: EA Says Steam Sales "Cheapen Intellectual Property"

                  Originally posted by [MyIS]Zips
                  David DeMartini: [/B]Actually, Gabe will usually say it improves sales in other channels because if the game is good there are some water-cooler moments and it has a spring-up effect. Without revealing too much, what I'll say is one way to deal with aging inventory is you do deep discounts like that. There are other ways, which I can't really talk about, of dealing with product as it ages over a period of time, where you present a value to the customer and you engage them in your service on a going-forward basis. We don't believe in the drop-it-down, spring-it-up, 75 percent off approach, but we've got something else that we do believe in that we'll be rolling out.

                  But I absolutely understand your point, and I'm not not-hearing what you're saying. We don't have the old-school approach that you're describing; we're all about building as big a universe as we can, and there are multiple ways to build the universe. One way is to discount the price, the other is to form a longer-term relationship with them and draw them in that way. [/indent]

                  Forget the cheap imitations, this is the original web based, randomly generated, buzzword bingo game!. Forget the cheap imitations, this is the original web based, randomly generated, buzzword bingo game!


                  EA never understod anything but brute-force marketing campaings.

                  Thats also why you see them chasing a different rainbow each year.
                  One year it was in-game ads
                  Then it was micro-transactions
                  Soon after that they wanted to compete with Steam.
                  And now they are trying to make us subscribe to content.

                  But they always end up doing it half-assed and then moving on to something else.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: EA Says Steam Sales "Cheapen Intellectual Property"

                    Originally posted by Buveed
                    I know it's not a popular perspective, but he's got a point to a degree. There's countless times that even with new releases, people say they'll just wait for a sale, because it's become expected. Wait a month or two, it's half off. Wait a little longer, you might get it for 66% or 75%. It's great for the consumer. Also, new releases tend to be at the top because it's based on dollar amount, so a $60 game is more likely to sit up there than what's on sale for the week. I'll be honest, I love the sales. I have a lot of games that I've enjoyed that I wouldn't have otherwise purchased if it wasn't for the sale. Games are getting more expensive to make and they're also devaluing much quicker, too, so the profits that big AAA devs aren't coming in at the same rate anymore. This is part of the reason why there's fewer new IP's and more rehashes of what works, and why the $60 game doesn't come from the small studios anymore. Obviously, EA's pandering to the publishers who dislike Steam, getting them to make a switch. But if EA were in Valve's shoes, they would do the same thing. Activision has seemed to embrace Steam, and Bethesda even more. Origin's got a long way to go to catch Steam, but with Battlefield and Mass Effect 3, they're making progress.
                    I think you, like BigGame, are making a very odd assumption. This is the theory that people are going to buy games no matter what, and so whatever price BigGame sets, people are so addicted to games that they will buy it regardless. That may have been true for a few years, but that time is long gone. People like cheap stuff -- Facebook wouldn't have been so popular if there was a monthly fee for it, and even that isn't enough to stem the tide of users closing accounts.

                    The two parts I've highlighted are key here. Firstly, it is great for the customer. But why shouldn't games, especially after a number of years since release, reduce in price? Would you pay full price for a month old loaf of bread? Or for a 1 year old car? Games don't even have any actual use -- you can live off bread, and a car takes you to work where you can get money to buy more bread. You don't need video games for anything other than entertainment, and in bad economic times, spending on such entertainment goes down first.

                    The second thing is, why do games cost so much to make, and why is this cost increasing? Normally, things get cheaper as time goes by, especially when they are mass produced. The majority of games aren't made by just one guy, there is division of labor, so there shouldn't be any special premium. It should be even cheaper with games because you only need to make one actual "game" in terms of creating it, and then its just CTRL+C, CTRL+V of the data a few million times. I doubt the "game" itself costs that much in terms of man-hours. More likely, it's over-inflated salaries at the top of the company which sucks most of the funds. And then they go splurging on gigantic ad-campaigns which just aren't effective. The reason games devalue so quick is because the market is correcting the inflated release-date price downwards to what the game is actually worth.

                    Most people are willing to wait for a game to be heavily discounted before buying it. There were always a few called "early adopters" who were impatient and lacking in common sense, who would jump on a new product as soon as it was released, and pay a premium for early access. Their numbers grew over the last decade, bringing in huge cash flows for companies. As I said before, BigGame thought this would carry on forever, but that time is over, and the market has self-corrected. Early adopters have reduced to their natural numbers, and everyone else is willing to practice patience, and buy from the bargain bin on their own terms.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: EA Says Steam Sales "Cheapen Intellectual Property"

                      Originally posted by Buveed
                      I have a lot of games that I've enjoyed that I wouldn't have otherwise purchased if it wasn't for the sale.
                      Way to conflict with your own point, there.

                      What's cheaper, buying it on sale or not buying it all? I would think nobody buying it in the first place would 'cheapen intellectual property' a whole lot more than people buying it on sale.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I figure it's just a successful company passing on savings, at the same time increasing sales through eye catching offers and word of mouth, everybody talks about steam sales. Remember when this was a standard business practise? Doesn't seem like something EA would be into which is fair enough, just doesn't give them any right to complain about it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: EA Says Steam Sales "Cheapen Intellectual Property"

                          From a marketing standpoint the company could do better but probably not much better. In my history of gaming I've never bought a game from steam at full price.

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                          • #14
                            Re: EA Says Steam Sales "Cheapen Intellectual Property"

                            From a marketing standpoint the company could do better. In my history of gaming I've never bought a game from steam at full price. I think a big reason for this is that I don't like their poorly made client. Programs that use more memory than they should are just a turn off to me when they have to do with gaming, which has also become less of a problem to me now that computers are more powerful and we have more ram.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: EA Says Steam Sales "Cheapen Intellectual Property"

                              I'm surprised nobody referenced Mr. Kuchera's article that was published almost two months ago. Didn't he already address why VALVe is doing this?

                              Sure, they may be the Target of video game sales channels, but erm... That's because the current environment benefits from this according to VALVe's never-ending research on pricing (and psychology; honestly I consider them psychologists in interactive entertainment at this point). Heck even VALVe is confused by their own results, and unlike EA, they SHARE their research! VALVe is probably one of the most, if not THE most, unorthodox companies I have ever seen (their handbook or even sharing of it is kind of proof in itself, but I digress).

                              I mean, did the pricing for Counter-Strike: Global Operations surprise everyone? Didn't everyone assume it would be $20? I thought it would've been $40-50, but at ~$15 (not confirmed price) I'm sold on the game regardless of whether I will play it day 1 or not. EA, this is what VALVe's research created.

                              The ratio that I buy VALVe's games to EA's is about 5:1 every 6 months or so. Enjoy your $50, VALVe scored $20 x 5 = $100 in the same period of time. (I don't buy DLC unlike everyone else though, so the results are rather biased admittedly speaking. I imagine DLC would in fact, exceed Steam's sales unless you count Steam's DLC sales as well.)

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