GDC: Modern Warfare 2 Coming November 10, New Trailer

[imported_Whiskey]

Re: GDC: Modern Warfare 2 Coming November 10, New Trailer

hehe, that's what they all say. :p

They wouldn't have given a specific date this far out if they weren't sure of hitting it. The last 2 COD's - COD4 and CODWW - both came out in the Nov 4-Nov 11 timeframe. There's no reason to doubt that MW2 will be late. Activision/IW don't miss their dates like EA does.

[[Expletive Deleted]]

Re: GDC: Modern Warfare 2 Coming November 10, New Trailer

Maybe both COD4 and COD WaW would have been better off missing their release dates and spending a little more time in the oven, though.
When the TreyArch community manager says PC gamers aren't entitled to patches and only paid for the game as-is out of the box... And they aren't really responsible for any updates after the retail version has shipped and people have purchased it...
I think it's about time developers started putting out games that were done in the first place if they don't feel like supporting their products after the sale. Or they can just die. I'm getting to where that would be just fine, too.
Computer software is one of the few areas where consumers have had a lot of patience and tolerance for incomplete products being released and then patched up to what should have been the application in the box in the first place. Developers are starting to mistake kindness for weakness and they're getting arrogant and sloppy.
But nevermind me. Continue to buy your games on release day in droves. Stimulate the economy.

[CptainCrunch]

Re: GDC: Modern Warfare 2 Coming November 10, New Trailer

I will, thank you :wee:

Your comments, though may be on the mark, are not entirely true or correct. No game, not one ever, has been released perfect. No piece of application software, not one ever, has been released perfect, no OS, not one ever, has been released perfect.

And it never will be.

Should they strive to make it perfect? Sure. Can they? No. We are all fools if we think or expect otherwise.

Hell, Ive purchased a toaster out of the box that didnt work. If we cant get a toaster right, how are we going to get a complicated program right?

Buy your games or dont, I will do what I want to.

Crunch

[[Expletive Deleted]]

Re: GDC: Modern Warfare 2 Coming November 10, New Trailer

Where did I say that games should be released in a state of perfection? I merely expressed my distaste for developers releasing incomplete products and claiming that they are doing their customers a favor by patching their applications. If features listed on the box and in their advertisements don't work properly, I feel that it damn well should be their responsibility to do everything within their power to get their products up to standard.
Why do software companies get this carte blanche? If any other industry just said: "Eh, you were dumb enough to buy the car without checking to see if that airbag was actually in there. Your loss." That company would be through. Finished. But we'll accept that attitude from software companies?

As far as your broken toaster goes: you can take that toaster back and get your money refunded or a replacement toaster. Try that with opened software. Again, zero accountability.

[imported_Whiskey]

Re: GDC: Modern Warfare 2 Coming November 10, New Trailer

I merely expressed my distaste for developers releasing incomplete products

Neither COD4 nor CODWW was incomplete. They had bugs, some annoying, but for the majority of people, the games worked. SP worked, CO-OP worked (buggy matchmaking, but you could get around it), Zombies worked, and MP worked. It's unfortunate that some people had technical issues, but they are in the vast minority, despite what the complaints look like on forums (silent majority vs vocal minority).

Why do software companies get this carte blanche?

It's not carte blanche. But there is more leeway because games are so incredibly complex. Those who have never worked in the industry just cannot understand. The number of things that interact are immense. The number of variables and permutations that need to be checked are almost endless, and even one small change to a few lines of code can potentially break something else. And for PC, then you throw in all these wacky hardware configs and 3rd party software variables. There's only so much that testing can accomplish, and they're human too...by the end of a project, they're getting tired and can miss things, just like tired programmers can make an incomplete fix and/or break something.

The gaming community is by and large very fickle. They want instant gratification. They want new games every year or so. And they want them cheap, and nearly perfect. That's just not possible with the current timelines. Even if you test a game for years, you still won't find all the bugs.

As for taking games back, it's still "buyer beware" at the end of the day. PC gaming has been sliding into the "no refund" zone for several yrs now - it's not new. It's up to the consumer to find this out before they buy. And if they're not sure of the game they're buying, take the time to do more research...as you said before, they don't have to rush out on Day 1 to buy it.

Too many gamers take this idealist approach, without considering how the real world works, and that this is still a business. COD4 was playable and fun right from the start. I have over 12 full days on it myself. CODWW worked almost as well for me too. I haven't checked how many hrs I have on it yet, but it's a lot. Neither game was perfect, but neither was incomplete or defective, either. Comments to the contrary are just plain wrong. There's a big difference between a game that doesn't work, or that just sucks, vs some annoying bugs that somehow got through.

This is the hobby we've chosen. It uses complex "toys", especially in the PC realm. Some folks do need to re-assess if this is for them or not. Some should go to Consoles. Others should stick to companies like Valve who are more PC-centered and have a better distribution system like Steam. Others just need to quit gaming completely and find something else that doesn't change as fast/has more reliability.

[CptainCrunch]

Re: GDC: Modern Warfare 2 Coming November 10, New Trailer

Where did I say that games should be released in a state of perfection? I merely expressed my distaste for developers releasing incomplete products and claiming that they are doing their customers a favor by patching their applications. If features listed on the box and in their advertisements don't work properly, I feel that it damn well should be their responsibility to do everything within their power to get their products up to standard.
Why do software companies get this carte blanche? If any other industry just said: "Eh, you were dumb enough to buy the car without checking to see if that airbag was actually in there. Your loss." That company would be through. Finished. But we'll accept that attitude from software companies?

As far as your broken toaster goes: you can take that toaster back and get your money refunded or a replacement toaster. Try that with opened software. Again, zero accountability.

That is true, I assumed when you said "done" you meant with no issues. Since the post mentioned patches on the games and why does the community put up with it, it seemed you wanted a game with no need for patches out of the box, hence perfect. I must have read too much into that.

The thing with a toaster and car is if you damage it, the warranty is voided. Yet we put software on PCs that have bad hardware or viruses or spyware and when it doesnt run well, we blame the PC software, whatever software it may be, for all the problems.

The only warranty in my license agreement that I have seen on any of my games (I just looked through them) is for the defect of the media for a period of 60 to 90 days. Thats it. No warranty on the program itself on ANY of them.

For the CoD games there is a section called LIMITATION ON DAMAGES and it states that if the game destroys your PC, Activision is not responsible.

Now I've seen this debated over and over and it never goes anywhere. I am not going to change anyones thinking and no one is going to change mine. I agree on what you are saying Unnamed, but thats just not how it works. IT SHOULD, but it doesnt.

Its just like the stupid license agreement. In order for us to read the license agreement, we have to open the box. The agreement states that if we open the box, we agree to the agreement. I mean W T F?


From Whiskey: This is the hobby we've chosen. It uses complex "toys", especially in the PC realm. Some folks do need to re-assess if this is for them or not. Some should go to Consoles. Others should stick to companies like Valve who are more PC-centered and have a better distribution system like Steam. Others just need to quit gaming completely and find something else that doesn't change as fast/has more reliability.

I think that says it all right there. Everyone has their ideas on the perfect game but its not out there. I havent seen it yet, not that I have played them all, but I do this to have fun and it really does amaze me how much people get bent out of shape on everything.

If anyone feels like the gaming industry is jipping you, the only way you can protest is to not buy the game. Thats your vote. I dont buy that brand toaster anymore, even though it had a warranty, I chose a different one entirely because I dont know what the next one would have been like.

Thats also why I dont buy Chevys :P

Crunch