Forgotten Hope 2 Mod Update

[imported_Rhino]

Re: Forgotten Hope 2 Mod Update

I can accept everything you said now that you have provided some clarity on the issue. But I hope you do see my point in level creation. There is a formula that seems to be successful in the BF series.

when you're being camped and killed on a map, attention to detail and quality goes right out the window...nobody will care about how pretty the map is. they will just say, this sucks. Now it could be their own fault for being camped or it could very well be the design of the level which is what I see alot of. I'm just of the opinion that details and quality are secondary to gameplay/level design. Yes, they both can have a high priority. But all the polish in the world can't save a poorly laid out level. Polish can however greatly enhance the immersion level the player experiences on a well designed level.

Oh well....I just wanna see FH2 be a success just as I wanna see all the other mods be a success.

I never said that maps shouldn't be thinking about gameplay first and looks 2nd? When I make a map I always plan out the layout etc before I go too far with an idea

Thou the looks, epically as time goes on do mean more and more to players. Players are buying bigger and better systems to run games like BF2 and Crysis on full GFx just so they can get the best visual experience aswell as gameplay, as the thing is players do really like stuff to look nice. I cant to be honest explain why but something looking nice dose help a game, maybe not quite the gameplay but it for sure keeps the players happy which in turn will have a effect on the gameplay

cant have guys running around with a block in there hand as a gun now can you even thou if the gun had some amazing gameplay features along with it as players would get upset and probably just go on there first impression of seeing a crappy block and exit the game rather than see what the gameplay was like

at the end of the day that stuff comes down to more of an artistic level rather than a game play dynamics thing

[|D|-Jaws]

Re: Forgotten Hope 2 Mod Update

Something interesting in this discussion:

|D|-Jaws, what does gameplay means?<script type="text/javascript"> vbmenu_register("postmenu_1530325", true); </script>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gameplay

[Bigboom]

Re: Forgotten Hope 2 Mod Update

Generally, the term "gameplay" in video game terminology is used to describe the overall experience of playing the game excluding the factors of graphics, sound, and the storyline.

That's a very good and accurate definition in my eyes.

[imported_Rhino]

Re: Forgotten Hope 2 Mod Update

Generally, the term "gameplay" in video game terminology is used to describe the overall experience of playing the game excluding the factors of graphics, sound, and the storyline.

I would agree with most of that apart from I would include that graphics and sound etc can have a big effect on game play

[Lobo[FH]]

Re: Forgotten Hope 2 Mod Update

Hehe, that definition in wikipedia doesn't help, what is your personal opinion about what is gameplay?

I am asking because I think too many players (most of them in the ranks of pro-arcadeish playing type) think Gameplay=survive a lot + to be a one-man band, and minimize the importance of teamplay and tactic playing.

[Avenger7144]

Re: Forgotten Hope 2 Mod Update

Great mod when it comes out it will be on our server for sure!

[|D|-Jaws]

Re: Forgotten Hope 2 Mod Update

Hehe, that definition in wikipedia doesn't help, what is your personal opinion about what is gameplay?

I am asking because I think too many players (most of them in the ranks of pro-arcadeish playing type) think Gameplay=survive a lot + to be a one-man band, and minimize the importance of teamplay and tactic playing.

I'm the leader of a competition clan. We only care about teamwork. Pub n00bs ruin most of our gameplay experiences. We don't do rambo tactics. We will however use "unsavory" team tactics in order to win because as you know in competition, it's win at all costs as long as hacking or exploiting isn't involved. Not looking for a debate on that one.

IMO, gameplay is everything but the following, game mechanics, graphics and sound.

When I create maps for competition play, they have to have great gameplay characteristics. Map balance is huge in our world. For example, if you give one team an attack chopper and not the other, is that balanced? Although it is ok to make teams fight for the right to have the chopper...like on Dalian Plant 16 player version. If you give one team the high ground, is that balanced? It is ok to give a team the high ground if it's the result of having to have fought for it. If the flags are all within sprinting distance from one team's main and not the other, is that balanced? there are so many factors that we look at to ensure the map is fair and balanced. And it doesn't stop there. We look heavily at static placement and we do our best to avoid content that promotes glitching and other exploitive tactics like the removal of walls to discourage crouch spamming. Personal example....when I recreated Karkand into Karkand-Fu, I had originally placed alot of walls within the city...I was wrong to do so because those walls were providing for two things, crouch spamming and the inability for the tankers to kill their obvious counters...the anti-tank infantrymen who use the walls to spam AT rockets and who can't be shot because the wall provides protection. So I removed most of them and went with other things like steel railings and penetrable fences. This retained the look I was after as an artist but also alleviated the aforementioned issues. We also look at choke points and the ability to outflank your enemy. Can it be done, can it not be done, if successful, can the opposing team counter it? One of the big things we did in BF2Pro wa to remove the choppers from Songhua Stalemate which is one of the best maps in all of BF2 competition because the choppers only served as mobile spawnpoints which had no counter. the map devolved into flag tag and that's not what we're trying to validate in a competitive environment. We want to know who has the best teamwork and tactics and of course, who has the best 1v1 shooting skills. Gameplay also involves around the battle rhythm. A good map has great battles, bad maps have none lol. Bad competition map....Operation Clean Sweep, great competition map....Mashtuur City. Clean Sweep is fun to pub because the lack of teamwork on the MEC allows USMC to advance....not so in comp. MEC rapes USMC all the time because we know the map was designed poorly. Even the pub n00bs have caught on and that's why you don't see Clean Sweep being played on many servers. One last thing, for a map to have great gameplay value, it must provide for the bleeding team the ability to counter. It might be tough, but it should be doable.

I could go on and on and on about gameplay. A map might look pretty but it might play like crap due to it's overall design.

[Lobo[FH]]

Re: Forgotten Hope 2 Mod Update

And a map might look pretty and might play like angels, and a map might look crap but play like angels and will still be a crap because now, 2007, it's perfectly possible to get graphics and gameplay, BF2 is not Wolfenstein 3D, hehe.

Our mod is not about that kind of mirrored map design you are talking about, it's about historic battles, obviously with even chances for both teams if we design them right. But don't expect cloned equipment and mirrored geographic stuff, well, if you played FH1 you already know it

[|D|-Jaws]

Re: Forgotten Hope 2 Mod Update

And a map might look pretty and might play like angels, and a map might look crap but play like angels and will still be a crap because now, 2007, it's perfectly possible to get graphics and gameplay, BF2 is not Wolfenstein 3D, hehe.

Our mod is not about that kind of mirrored map design you are talking about, it's about historic battles, obviously with even chances for both teams if we design them right. But don't expect cloned equipment and mirrored geographic stuff, well, if you played FH1 you already know it

Yes, I recall all the pixel aiming goodness in the arty on Nordwind....every time we'd go to that map on our server, [SYN] hydraSlav would always race to the arty so he could pummel the enemy mains. In fact, most [SYN] players would do nothing but arty. They must have had every pixel down pat.

[imported_Rhino]

Re: Forgotten Hope 2 Mod Update

jaws you do know there are things called symmetrical and asymmetrical balancing? A map dose not have to be symmetrically balanced to be balanced

and also the good asymmetrical maps tend to be the most popular

[Jacob_Lindberg]

Re: Forgotten Hope 2 Mod Update

Looks just GREAT!

Will it be released in 2007?? I really hope so!

Btw Comment No 100 :yay:

[|D|-Jaws]

Re: Forgotten Hope 2 Mod Update

jaws you do know there are things called symmetrical and asymmetrical balancing? A map dose not have to be symmetrically balanced to be balanced

and also the good asymmetrical maps tend to be the most popular

Rhino my dear,


I know all of this and more. The differences in class selection leads to asymmetrical gameplay Rhino, regardless of level symmetry. Karkand, even though it's linear in attack/defend, is asymetrically balanced at round start. Hotel flag was meant to be defended for a LONG period of time. That's the hallmark of BF maps. The handicapped side, usually the US, starts off with greater disadvantages but over time, is expected to overcome them...ala Omaha Beach. But because balancing is dynamic in BF2, Karkand becomes stalemate at trainwreck. This is where the map was designed from a symmetrical point of view. The asymetrical gameplay allowed by class selection provides for futhering the asymmetrical gameplay by the players Rhino. that's why you see medic rushes and snipers in high concentrations at train wreck and across the bridge. In the end, it's still all about balancing.

Here's a homework assignment for you, go learn how to place tactical wire correctly in your maps. I'll give you till Monday and then I'll grade you upon your results.

Now go go go young man!

EDIT: I agree with you more than you realize and I love you man!!!!!

[Seth_Soldier]

Re: Forgotten Hope 2 Mod Update

i don't expect a lot from bf2 community.
I would rather say i fear it because of their behaviour.

So i hope this mod will be played by ww2 gamers, a real community of players.

It doesn't matter when it is released because ww2 gamers will always stick to ww2 games, they are addicted to ww2.

[[GCA]Tim270]

Re: Forgotten Hope 2 Mod Update

Yer forget the few flames and concentrate on the load that are eager to play

[solodude23]

Re: Forgotten Hope 2 Mod Update

Don't set your sights so low. 120 people is abysmal. I won't be happy until I see 10,000.

10,000? Uhh, no. This is BF2.

Anyway, FH is for BF1942 and still has players after the release of Vietnam, BF2, AND 2142. (Not to mention other games outside of the Battlefield franchise.) If you aren't happy till you see 10,000 for a mod then you are shooting WAY too high. Thats >120 players after all those games released.