explain AT too me.

[Marveric]

Re: explain AT too me.

how to kill a tank = run up to it and chuck medic packs at it. 50% of the time the driver bails because he thinks its C4, and you've just nailed yourself a free tank

[Cartire]

Re: explain AT too me.

Heres the thing though, a disagreement i have.

A tank is a heavy killing machine, built at high cost for efficinacy. A tank should get many kills before taken out or else what the point of the tank. If it was a one shot kill or 95 % for AT rocket, then the tank would not be effenctiant enough to exist. A 20 million dollar armored killing machine vs a single soldier with a 25,000 dollar rocket.

As of now, i havnet see that much problems taking a tank out. It probably will get 5-10 killls before our team does, but good, it should, else no one would use them them and we would be back to just foot battles.

Thats why you only see 2-4 on a map (except EF, which is crazy, but still cool)

[WarGimp]

Re: explain AT too me.

Heres the thing though, a disagreement i have.

A tank is a heavy killing machine, built at high cost for efficinacy. A tank should get many kills before taken out or else what the point of the tank. If it was a one shot kill or 95 % for AT rocket, then the tank would not be effenctiant enough to exist. A 20 million dollar armored killing machine vs a single soldier with a 25,000 dollar rocket.

As of now, i havnet see that much problems taking a tank out. It probably will get 5-10 killls before our team does, but good, it should, else no one would use them them and we would be back to just foot battles.

Thats why you only see 2-4 on a map (except EF, which is crazy, but still cool)

One issue I've always had with the whole of the BF line is that I've always consitered a good balance model to be "The more players it takes to opperate an asset, the more powerful that asset should be". Tanks, IMHO, should be a 3 man affair. Driver, main gunner, secondary (top) gunner.

Such a powerful asset should require teamwork to field.

If this model was in place, you'd see a hella lot less tankwhores lonewolfing it up... 'cause they couldn't.

[TheGhost]

Re: explain AT too me.

Lot of good discussion here, I just want to add to it by posing one question. There are three classes in the game that have the potential to go head to head with a tank and take it from full health to dead on their own. Of those three, why is it that the one specifically called anti-tank is arguably the worst at the job?

The one thing in AT's favor is that it can engage the tank under a wider set of conditions. However given the right conditions, spec-ops and engineers can engage much more effectively. Engineers and spec-ops also have the potential to lay an ambush that will knock out a tank in one shot.

On top of that look at the amount of firepower each carries with regards to taking out armor. AT can count on taking out two tanks if they are presented with perfect shots and manage to get them all off without being spotted and getting killed. Spec-ops knows for a fact they can take out two full health tanks, and they can either do it by running up to a distracted tank and being proactive about it (or with a jihad jeep), or they can just lay a trap and wait. Engineers have the potential to take out 5 tanks on a single kit load. They rely more heavily on being able to set a good trap, but they can also manage kills by running up to a distracted tank and dropping a mine under his treads.

Personally when I want to take out a tank I am more likely to take either engineer or spec-ops, instead of the dedicated anti-tank class. I find them to be just as, if not more effective than AT at killing tanks, and on top of that once the tank is dead spec-ops and engineers are a lot better off for staying alive and getting further kills and points.

[[TBF2] Antioch93]

Re: explain AT too me.

a SRAW or ERYX should kill a tank in like 2 hits tops... If you watch some real military video recordings, the SRAW would blow a tank with 1 shot or 2 tops... Its just wierd that an AT does as much good as a M95 shooting a T90

[LuckyStrike]

Re: explain AT too me.

I will shoot out the crates first. Withdraw a bit to repair and hit them hard. This is a plan but not perfect.

[Farhad]

Re: explain AT too me.

I had this same problem the other day on Gulf of Oman, one APC and one Tank were sitting ducks on a crate taking out all incoming US assets. I had an anti-tank kit and would get blown to pieces when I attacked with AT. Then I got a APC from the construction spawn point, rode up past them a fired a single rocket to the crate, rode past a wall so they couldn't fire, circled around and unloaded another rocket into the APC and hit him enough to get him smoking. The tank nailed me, I bailed. Rolled over and took the APC out, the tank started machine gunning me, I ran off circled and fired off a rocket from one position into the tracks, flanked and fired another into the tracks while he was scoping my first position.

My point?

Fire and move. The AT kit I believe is good as it stands. Constantly altering your position will mean you will get that tank kill. There this good balance between tanks and infantry, where tanks are killing machines on the open range, but in urban CQB they are sitting ducks, because there are so many nooks and hiding spots where a AT guy could hide and fire off. I know this because on Sharqi, I know that taking the urban area next to the construction side is suicide with AT or Spec Ops there... they can easily take you down, while you keep rotating to see where they are.

If you increase the power of the AT, it would effectively take tanks out of the game. As that would mean that a single AT guy could take out 2 tanks on his own (taking 2 shots as kills, with a 5 ammo load out).

So I'd say it's good as it is. I would rather see a more effective sidearm for the AT. Dao is good close up, but the AT guy is dead against a fast moving target.

Also as it stands the AT rocket is still a bit kanckered. I hit vodniks and don't see them killed always. So maybe fix that?

My 2 cents...

[WarGimp]

Re: explain AT too me.

If it makes any of you guys feel any better, no matter what kit I'm playing when I see armour parked next to a crate, I grenade the crate.

[Kayback]

Re: explain AT too me.

I enjoy playing AT, however I also don't like it's uselesness.

One thing that STILL annoys me is the multiple reloading bug that is still a problem.

It's mad enough having to land a bunch of rockets inside the badguy, but when you pop out of cover after your guy has just reloaded only to have him start reloading again is balls.

One thing I've got quite good at is straffing out of cover and launching a missile ahead of where it needs to be, and when you strafe back into cover, blind guide it into the tank.

One thing I'd like to see is a having the ability to repair while driving removed. Especially a tank. Think about this, the guy is driving, loading and gunning, as well as repairing your vehicle? WTF?

How many hands does this guy have?

Same with the APC.

Make it so driver do that, they drive and gun. However any people riding inside the vehicle (Top gunner on tank, passengers inside the APC/Humvee) can still repair to keep things fun.

I conceed the fact you are in a $30 million MBT, and "it should take teamwork to destroy it", but how come it doesn't take teamwork to drive it? You can repair and re arm eachother while merrily driving around swatting AT guys.

Make it so tanks/APC's HAVE to hold a passenger if they want to repair and it becomes more fun for AT's. If you do kill +4, the chance of finding un supported tanks goes up, snipers can pick off top gunners to prevent APC's healing..... the possibilities are endless.

KBK

[Paas]

Re: explain AT too me.

If you increase the power of the AT, it would effectively take tanks out of the game. As that would mean that a single AT guy could take out 2 tanks on his own (taking 2 shots as kills, with a 5 ammo load out).

I don't think anyone is in favor of upping the "Power" of the rockets themselves (Would be a major one-two to Helos). I think the general mindest is the speed, and the reload time. When fighting a convoy, the time it takes you to reload your rocket is well beyound the time it takes them to climb to full health.

So I'd say it's good as it is. I would rather see a more effective sidearm for the AT. Dao is good close up, but the AT guy is dead against a fast moving target.

No. Anti-TANK should in no way have ANYTHING boosted in terms of dealing with infantry. The DOA ,and the Subs increased accuracy, is good enough. You're not supposed to be dealing with infantry... you're supposed to be dealing with tanks almost exclusively. Problem is, Spec-Ops and Engineer do it much better.

Also as it stands the AT rocket is still a bit kanckered. I hit vodniks and don't see them killed always. So maybe fix that?

Hummers and Vodiks take two Anti-Tank rounds to completely kill. Three if they are being engaged by one AT-Kit and near and engineered vehicle.

...I think the flawed logic behind this is to allow the hummer to break through enemy lines, and if it's struck, allow the passagers the time to get out and return fight. Which is outrageously stupid.

{WP}Paas

[imported_RpTheHotrod]

Re: explain AT too me.

Would be nice if infantry could run up and fire INTO the slits that people look out of. IE, in the APC. Someone inside? Run up, stick your rifle in their view-slit, and fire away. Dead passenger.

As for tanks, the top hatch is open. Why can't we drop a nade inside?

I'm unsure if driver slits exist in the tanks, though. I know they did in WW2.

[Kayback]

Re: explain AT too me.

Nowadays they have periscopes and TV cameras. I do think you can still "unbutton" for a better view, but they are pretty well armoured if they are closed up.

Grenades inside tanks and shooting into APCs would also be great fun.

My favourite tactic against Vodniks and Humvee's is to run up behind and loba grenade inside, killing the gunner

KBK

[WarGimp]

Re: explain AT too me.

So... thinking that folks might get a giggle outta it, I uploaded my (really rough) BF2 vid on yourtube. Sorry for the general unpollished quality. I patched before I had a chance to really finish the flick.

Er... I had a point here.
OH yeah! About a third of the way through the clip is an absolutely beautiful AT tank kill pulled off by CaptinPuffy after I'd dropped him off on top of the tent-like structure where that tank spawns. Watchin the BR file taught me a few things about using AT... and since that's the topic, it might be worth a looksee.
Here tis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7wKLtpJxp4

I warned you about the quality.

[shiremct]

Re: explain AT too me.

I play AT quite abit and I am good at it. I will give you guys some tips and my opinions on the gameplay:

First off, some AT tips (sorry its long-winded.. the tips are solid though ):

Everybody says shoot the supply crate first. This is not always the best option, especially if you have a clear shot to the back of the tank. Never hit the supply crate first when you have a APC at full health if you think you can successfully get three shots off (which means lots of cover or range). Why? well, the reason is simple, two shots to the rear or treads of a tank and two shots anywhere on an APC set them on fire, which usually results in the driver jumping out and mowing you over with a g36c or sniping you with their m95. However, if you shoot twice and they have a supply crate, they will most likely stick around for the third shot, which will be fatal as in instablow(usually). You have to be able to place your shots where they need to go to do this with tanks, but remember, the ENTIRE back of the tank(including the back of the turret) is a weak zone. This is assuming that there is only a supply crate and not other engineers around. This also leaves the crate intact to resupply your piddly reserve of rockets.
However, when you don't have a good attack position, go ahead and take out the crate. This way if (and you often will... accept it) you die before killing the armor vehicle, it will be reduced to a level where your team can more easily destroy it.

Also... if you have not been spotted after your first rocket, DON'T go running somewhere else!! This goes double or triple even out in the open. You are more likely to be seen if you move especially in the open. If you are behind cover and not were not discovered after your first shot, sit tight. Its perfectly fine to move around, but don't go running across the street to take your next shot when the driver doesn't know where you are.

Remember that splash damage from a tank shell can only really hurt you if you have a solid object to your rear or side. The best place to engage tanks is often behind the sandbag barriers; there a tank has a tough time placing a shot such that the splash will do much damage to you. Alleyways are generally the worst place to engage tanks as AT. Not only are you extremely succeptible to enemy infantry coming around the corner, the close proximity of all the walls make it easy to kill you with a tank's main gun splash damage.

Use range. The AT rockets move extremely slow and in my opinion are probably the toughest thing to master in this game. Their slow speed make guideing them counter-intuitive. It is very much so against what you would naturally expect and an AT guy who can place those long-range shots on moving vehicles is really an asset to his team. I still regularily crash my missles into the ground or into buildings because I guide them too soon and I have been playing AT for about 100 hours. Having said that, get some practice with them. While it takes a lot of practice to be able to hit really long range shots or fast moving vehicles, its not nearly so hard for an average AT guy to hit armor at medium range. The more practice you get hitting at range the better off you will be in any situation. Try playing a map other than Karkand... that in itself will make you a better player all-around.

Stick with a squad if possible. I understand that many times it just isn't possible to find the teamwork you are looking for, but just by being around other players(your squad or not), you will:
a.) be in a place more likely to encounter enemy armor
b.) have teammates to help protect you from enemy infantry
c.) give the enemy armor other targets to distract him
Two AT guys are generally enough to cover you from enemy armor at a flag where you can respawn. Out in the middle of no-where, where a death means out of the fight, three may be better, but a squad with at least two decent AT guys can consider themselves equiped to encounter armor (and win ) Just understand that being equipped to win doesn't always mean you will win.

If you are not AT, but encounter enemy armor (armor by the way = tanks and APCs), you can still help! Please Please Please chuck a few grenades that way. ChuChu is 100% correct, us AT guys will be very greatful as it can make the difference in killing the driver outright with our missle (before he can bail, or the explosion of the vehicle itself kills him before he can get clear) versus the driver bailing and the AT guy getting jack**** for his efforts.

If you are in a bad situation like out in the middle of the road when a tank shows up, and you are pretty damn sure you are gonna die, go out like a man and pop off a rocket rather than simply trying to run away when you know you won't make it. You may even get lucky and kill the guy, though don't count on that. It is better however to do some damage with your death rather than die tired.

AT guys are perfect for accompanying armor. Their primary weapon (both DAO and SMGs) are great for clearing enemy spec-ops charging with c4 and their rockets can sometimes stop a jihad jeep (though more often than not, the rocket will pass through the front of the jeep... I'll touch on this in a bit) and just about always make the difference in a tank-vs-tank battle.
AT guys also work great driving around in FAV's and DPV's. Jump into the buggy/jeep with you AT launcher out and then drive around looking for trouble. You can drive up, hop out, fire, and then either run for cover or hop back in your ride. This is most effective in my experience on Gulf of Oman and Daqing Oilfields, but works on any map.

Understand that the AT rockets are not perfect. The rockets will often pass through the front of a fast moving vehicle. This is most troublesome with jeeps and jets. If you realize this, it makes dealing with the problem much easier, except with the jets, which makes it basically impossible to hit a moving jet with an AT rocket, but the opportunity to shoot down an oncoming jet with an AT rocket are very very rare. In fact the only times I have ever been in a situation where i was able to 'shoot' the jet, but the rocket passed through have been on the carrier when a jet comes in to sweep the deck (run-over the people standing there). Jeeps on the other hand apply all the time. You have a few options to deal with the problem and the best one always depends on the situation:

1.) let the jeep pass and shoot in from behind or the side. Rockets generally only pass through a fast moving vehicle from the front. Unless you yourself have seen otherwise, ignore the constant claims of AT rockets passing through tanks and APCs and jeeps from all angles. AT rockets almost never pass through APCs and I have never seen one pass through a tank. Not that it doesn't happen, but its not much of a problem. If a guy is trying to run you over in a jeep, then you likely have no choice to shoot at the front and hope for the best, but if you can, wait to get a shot to his side or rear. The chances of an AT rocket passing through the full-speed jeep then are VERY low. This is generally the best way to deal with the problem.

2.) wait till the jeep slows down such as to make a turn. AT rockets only seem to pass through a jeep moving at full speed. A stationary or slow moving jeep takes the hit everytime. It requires a pretty sharp turn for a jeep to slow down, so this applies less often, but is still effective. If a buggy is moving full speed but you think it will soon slow down to pick up a guy, wait to shoot until it has slowed down and you will minimize the chances of having your rocket pass through the vehicle.

3.) shoot at the ground right in front of the jeep. If the jeep is already damaged you may do enough damage to kill him, but remember the splash damage on the AT rocket is pretty low. This is generally the worst way to deal with the problem.

Lastly, if you are having trouble playing as AT, find an experienced AT player and stick around them. Watch them and learn from their examples. Practicing with an example to look to is the best way to get better.

I think that is quite enough tips for now I am only sad that this is on the fifth page of a post and many will likely not see it, but there is some juicy AT info for those who want it.



My opinions:
I personally feel that the AT kit is one of the most flexible kits in the game. I know the SMG's seem like trash but they are decently effective if you get used to them. And the AT rocket is the little bag of tricks that the AT player can pull on just about anything. They are great for killing infantry, and pretty much any range and of course they have their anti-vehicle capacity.

So, I do not really feel that the AT rocket needs a huge boost in damage, however, I do think a tiny boost would be nice. Just enough to finish off an APC or tank with the second well placed shot. I understand the theory behind letting the occupants of an APC escape, but the APCs are really just mini-MBTs and they are rarely used as transport. Perhaps a better alternative would be to lower the killing power of APCs and even up their damage resistance to encourage them to be used as transport rather than tanks, but anyways...AT needs no huge bonus.

Increased reload time for the AT rocket would be a nice alternative that wouldn't really have downsides to other gameplay aspects, but the guy who stated that the change's effectivness would be multiplied by all AT guys on the map is right. Any change should be small, though I don't think it is something that we NEED, but it would be nice.

I absolutely love you chaps who come in and say "Its a TANK!! It SHOULD take teamwork to take it out!!" Nevermind it takes NO teamwork to use the tank itself. If someone can hop in a tank and lone-wolf it, then why should I have to get a squad together to kill him? Because its a tank? Who cares. Anything that requires teamwork to down should require teamwork to operate. At the very least the INSANELY accurate MG given to the driver should have its accuracy decreased, although I think the gameplay would have benefited hugely from removing the driver's MG altogether, forcing him to rely on his gunner up top to clear infantry, and adjusting its armor. It would be a bad idea to do that now after the game has been out so long as it is, but the reduction of the tank driver's accuracy on his MG even by just a little would really help even things out for Anti-Tank vs Tank encounters and reduce the tanks ability to sit back and camp. I am of the opinion that the tank should be used more as a supporting tool than a huge killing machine, but I know many people want all the vehicles to simply be an extension of their rifle.

And just to throw it in because it always makes me mad when I see people spouting this crap all over the place... AT rockets are almost never a threat to Attach Copters!!! A very good AT player would find it extremely difficult to place a shot on even an average heli pilot. They are simply too manuverable to reliably hit. I see chopper pilots always listing their weakness to AT rockets as if they get downed by them all the time. In reality, there are really only two times an attack chopper is open to AT rocket attack and that is when they are resupplying/repairing and when they are just hovering somewhere, both situations in which they SHOULD be easy to hit. That just gets on my nerves!

[TheGuyWhoShotU]

Re: explain AT too me.

AT- is not that bad of a class if you know how to use it, smgs are great for close-mid range and rockets are a 1 hit 1 kill for inf, reminds me of the bolt action rifles in 42 but alot more powerful. I used to find it fustrating being AT but once you learn how to make real use of the guided missle feature you can rank in massive kills with a At smg combo.

I was AT class the entire round, no tanking, no nothing but inf. If I can make AT class kick ass so can you guys