What I think is "wrong" with the assault class in versions 1.2 onward

[WarGimp]

Re: What I think is "wrong" with the assault class in versions 1.2 onward

Better ARs and hand grenades aren't to your liking?

It's not that they aren't to my liking... it's a matter of me seeing some potential issues.

As things are now, the Assualt's rifles are really good at medium and close range. Like, really good. I feel that the assualt class's role is as rushers. They're the guys who are supposed to get up close 'n friendly-like with the enemy before blowing 'em away. They're the guys who enter and sweep buildings and/or alleys. I like how the spec opps rifles are handy at longer range, but don't really compair when the action is in your face. It makes for a division of roles.

As for hand 'nades, it's a matter of how you'd work it into the interface. All the standard weapon slots for assault are filled. How would you pull out those 'nades? There's no engine support to handle more than one weapon in a slot. Besides, if you feel that hand 'nades improve the kit, just take the 'ol G3. Ya get a nicer rifle (best in the game, IMHO) along with those lobbable boomers of spamish death.

So... both ideas have merit, but there's issues involved that need to be consitered.

[redrider]

Re: What I think is "wrong" with the assault class in versions 1.2 onward

You are right about the commander thing, Wargimp. You shouldnt be able to spawn as one class and have commander points count for that class. If you check my stats, not really necessary, you will find that I have Five hours as commander, thats 5.0. If you know of a better way to qualify as an advanced (I dont consider myself expert) user of a class, besides killing players with it. I will listen as I value your opinion, it is usually right. Right now its the only way I could think of to qualify some of these posts.
The main reason I am always saying how a mistake was made when the assault class GL got nerfed, is that I think learning how to use the GL took a little time. The best way was to kill multiple victims at once and not kill yourself. Also I dont want "ANY" class to be made to where it takes one, two hours max to become expert using it. The game should be hard to play, hard to learn and stay like that, so that it means something when you say that you play BF2. It was that way in the begining, remember.
It just happens that the assault class is the first class that went from being powerful to being lame. This tendency needs to be stopped before it happens again to another class. Just imagine if the same type of nerf was applied to the medic class? You have the range that you can toss a medic pack reduced and half the time when you toss a medic pack it goes under the ground or through the wall and becomes unuseable. Everyone sayes its a Noob kit because you always heal yourself. That just doesnt sound very good does it. Welcome to the world of the assault kit. You could eaisly replace the word medic in the above statement with any other class and the correct special Item.
After all the complaining I have done what would be a decent fix?I would like to see the GL able to shoot granades just like the kind that are hand tossed. Same code applied to each, with one minor exception. The GL version travels 1.2 times the distance. That is all. The granade launcher still takes just as long to reload as it does now, it just shoots a more balanced round. (Balanced with the other weapons). This is my Idea whats yours? . . . . . .Red

One final thing here, I think most everyone here shines with at least one kit. Mine was assault, thats all.

[WarGimp]

Re: What I think is "wrong" with the assault class in versions 1.2 onward

You are right about the commander thing, Wargimp. You shouldnt be able to spawn as one class and have commander points count for that class. If you check my stats, not really necessary, you will find that I have Five hours as commander, thats 5.0. If you know of a better way to qualify as an advanced (I dont consider myself expert) user of a class, besides killing players with it. I will listen as I value your opinion, it is usually right. Right now its the only way I could think of to qualify some of these posts.

I tend to qualify post on the merrit of the post itself. If it shows that the poster has consitered the issue, has applied some thought to it, and is being rational on the subject, then it's worth taking into account despite positive or negitive stats. Just because someone has top reflexes and a high-end machine (the two factors that are most likely to lead to good stats) doesn't mean they have any particular affinity to *thinking*.

Besides, I'm a big fan of Mark Twain's comment: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics." Raw numbers unbacked by rational thought just ain't useful things.

Edit: Forgot to comment on your thought...
I could see the GL round with blast radious/damage effects of a hang 'nade as being a potential problem. Refer back a page to my suggestion about a non-liniar blast/fragmentation model.

[redrider]

Re: What I think is "wrong" with the assault class in versions 1.2 onward

Nice post, Wargimp. Ive put a lot of thought into it, though. Thats the best I could come up with. Maybe not the best answer, but it takes into consideration all the things the EA/Dice people usually say about totally changing something. I am however open to a better suggestion as I think the current one (the way the GL is now) just isnt getting the job done. Cheers. . . . . . . .Red

I also see some of the people who did look up thier kit stats have been plesently suprised. Thats just as I thought, everyone is good at something even if they dont know what it is yet.

[Donkeyman]

Re: What I think is "wrong" with the assault class in versions 1.2 onward

I agree with you in a way and in others i dont. First of all, I find the g3 horrendously underpowered. It has a supposed "high" accuracy. All i knows is, that with the "high" accuracy on the m16a2, it can be used for urban sniping up to 200 yards. I also know that the g36c, with a smaller, thinner barrel and a much lighter design, can also do this... in fully automatic. I miss how the g3 originally was. The old g3 was so accurate its lack of ammo was almost made up for with its accuracy.

Wow, you find the G3 inaccurate? In my experience, its more accurate than any standard assualt rifle, or any any of the spec-ops guns. The only gun i find more accurate, as a matter of fact, is the L85A1.

[PHPT]

Re: What I think is "wrong" with the assault class in versions 1.2 onward

The assault class was fine before v1.2, and it didn't need a long sprint or more smoke grenades to make the class useful.
....
but it doesn't address the reason why assault became underpowered in the first place.

As I mentioned in my original post though, I'd consider the GL situation one where there were two problems rather than balance.

The problem with the whole "superior firepower" argument is that it's very, very difficult to balance. No kit has a weapon that's just "better" than any specific weapon with no tradeoffs. And it's fair to say that's the way it's supposed to be. Because of that, and the presence of smoke and especially flashbangs, it seems more sensible to view assault a defense softener rather than a kill machine.

I haven't really seen any arguments against that. Would it be a problem to add more smoke/sprint to make assault effectively a class that can run in and clean house not because their enemies were outgunned, but because they never saw it coming?

Wow, you find the G3 inaccurate? In my experience, its more accurate than any standard assualt rifle, or any any of the spec-ops guns. The only gun i find more accurate, as a matter of fact, is the L85A1.

Ack! Not only is the G3 one of if not THE least-accurate assault rifle, but the L85A1 is hardly accurate. It's actually markedly LESS accurate than most ARs.

[|ASNL|Ragamuffin]

Re: What I think is "wrong" with the assault class in versions 1.2 onward

I still don't see what is wrong with giving the GL a arming range so it can only be used at medium+ ranges and increasing splash area but only making it a instant kill if its a almost direct hit.

It would not be totally overpowering then as you could just sidestep the death blast radius if you see the grenade flying towards you and take at the most like 1/2 damage.

Seriously all these suggestions like more sprinting and smoke could help matters but i think you are avoiding the major issue here, that being that the GL the class has is almost entierly useless.