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What I think is "wrong" with the assault class in versions 1.2 onward

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  • What I think is "wrong" with the assault class in versions 1.2 onward

    (I would have posted this in the smoke grenade/sprint thread, had they not specifically requested that the discussion be limited to the suggested fix in question.)

    I'm taking for granted that the assault class used to overpowered and is now underpowered. I'm assuming the former to be true because the community and DICE felt it necessary to nerf the grenade launcher to such a degree, and I'm assuming the latter because aside from taking a large hit in popularity, there seems to be a general consensus on this forum that the assault class is underpowered (even useless).

    There have only been a handful of changes to the assault class since v1.0.
    • Less flashbangs for F2000 kit. (While we’re on the topic, addition of the F2000 kit.)
    • Improved G3.
    • Various nerfs to or directed at the grenade launcher (arming distance, radius nerf, inability to jump and fire).
    Did I miss any? I think I got all of the changes, the important ones at least.

    My point is, can any of these changes be singled out as to why the assault class is underpowered, and what could (or must) be changed to make the class more useful?

    I hardly think that having one less flashbang for one of the kits can be seen as the reason (or a reason, even) as to why assault is so much weaker now. The 2nd change, the improvement of the G3 rifle, doesn't even relate to the question because it's helping the class. The grenade launcher nerf, however, is an obvious reason why assault has gotten weaker. It's unique to the assault class, so it being nerfed hurts that class singularly, and if it were to be improved, the assault class could only be better off because of it. (But who wants to see the grenade launcher become the noob tube again?)

    What else has changed in BF2 (class-wise) between 1.12 and 1.22?
    • Sniper rifles double in accuracy. Snipers can consistently get headshots in version 1.2+ at ranges where they were trying simply to hit period in earlier versions. In addition, snipers have 24/7 access to an improved version of the M24.
    • Light machine guns see a general across the board improvement. They are more accurate, and their deviation added per shot is reduced to make short bursts highly effective. The support class, former underdog of BF2, becomes an instant hit.
    • Submachine guns see a slight but significant increase in accuracy. Whereas the DAO-12 was seen as a necessity for the class earlier, many AT players are now taking the SMGs in preference over the DAO-12, which even by general standards is seen as a capable weapon.
    • Hand grenades can be thrown further than they could before. Even from a stationary or even prone position, these things will still fly a mile when you press LMB.

    Anyway, this brings me to my present argument. It’s not that the assault class has gotten worse since v1.0; it’s just that the other classes (their weapons specifically) have gotten so much better while assault hasn’t improved at all to keep up the pace. Three of the seven classes are heavily based in infantry combat: support, sniper, and assault. (Medic and special ops are common in infantry combat as well, but I exclude them because they do not specialize specifically in combat. Medics would be just as essential if they had no rifles, and special ops have a unique AT and asset destruction role granted to them through C4.) Coincidentally, two of these classes have had huge buffs and as such have become very popular and effective classes, while the one class whose weapons weren’t touched* has become underpowered and unpopular. The grunt class doesn’t even get hand grenades, but rather a grenade launcher that is only really useful 1) if whored at close-range (still possible, which is a problem in and of itself) or 2) in specialized and rare situations (i.e. firing down from an elevated position). The direction I’m going in should be obvious:

    #1) Improve assault’s primary weapons: Make the assault rifles more accurate. I point to the G36E as an example. While some (or many) people won’t agree with me, I think there’s a very large gap in effectiveness between the G36E and the other assault rifles. If all the assault rifles were as good (or anywhere near as good) as the G36E, the assault class would play a far more prominent role than it does now. The G36E exemplifies what the assault rifles in BF2 are supposed to be like: accurate and mobile (note how accurate the G36E is, even from a standing position). On another note, I think an overhaul of the assault rifles should entail a buff of the carbines, lest they become obsolete.

    #2) Improve secondary/accessory weapons: It makes no sense to me that the highly useful and versatile hand grenades are issued to most classes while the anti-infantry grunt class (that’s assault) is limited to the grenade launcher, which while useful has to be used in very specific situations. While I don’t see this as as necessary a change as #1, I think the assault class should either get some hand grenades or a more generally applicable grenade launcher. The latter makes more sense to me, as BF2 is so late in the making that having a class with both hand grenades and a grenade launcher would seem awkward; furthermore, giving all the assault kits hand grenades would raise the question of what to add to the G3 kit, which already has them (flashbangs?).

    Anyway, that’s my essay (heh) on the present state of the assault class and what could be done to improve it. I don’t mean this as a rant or as flame-bait; this is just my earnest opinion. (Yes, I have too much time on my hands, so please don’t point that out.)

    *I don’t recognize the G3 as a comparable buff because it was only intended to put the G3 kit on par with the other assault kits.

  • #2
    Re: What I think is "wrong" with the assault class in versions 1.2 onward

    I dont think the assualt class is underpowered

    Some of the changes have been good like not being able to jump and shoot (which you still can to some degree)

    The G3 improvement was good

    The blast radius i think should have stayed the same thats the only change i disagree with

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: What I think is "wrong" with the assault class in versions 1.2 onward

      Recent topics along the same lines have sort of sent me musing on the position of assault. I came to the conclusion that flashbangs really exemplified assault's usefulness, and what it's role may be in the first place: Not a kit that wins due to superior firepower, but because of its ability to disrupt enemies to the point where fighting back is difficult. How's that for a defining role?

      That's what the GL is for, really. Prior to 1.2, it was basically being used as a shotgun. Now, it's not nearly as useful, but it does fit in to that mold: You fire it in from a distance, one defender's knocked out, your attack force starts one man up. Smoke fits it too, in that you can move in on points without having to worry nearly as much about getting shot at and can get the jump on your enemies. Flashbangs are the same idea, just much more drastic and prone to friendly fire.

      Because of that, I think it's actually fine that their weapons aren't hugely different from the medic/SO guns, and the real problem lies in their inability to perform their actual job. The culprit? Only one smoke, for starters. Poor sprint distance also means they get outmaneuvered by enemies.

      Because of that, my suggestion's simple: More smoke grenades, at LEAST one more. Someone said ammo packs don't replenish smoke, which I haven't gotten around to checking, but if so that needs to change. Longer sprint. That's it. Leave the guns alone.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: What I think is "wrong" with the assault class in versions 1.2 onward

        Originally posted by 2000sDigitalBoy
        (I would have posted this in the smoke grenade/sprint thread, had they not specifically requested that the discussion be limited to the suggested fix in question.)
        My jaw is on the floor...

        Someone actually respected that request?
        OMflipinhG!
        Thanks fer that.

        Now, on to adressing your topic(s).

        1) I don't see the primary weapons as needing any boosting. Each already dominates at it's intended role. That being, mid to close range. The assault's primaries don't require you to prone to become accurate, have a high rate of fire, and do lots of damage. The assault's rifles are resonably reliable when shooting from the hip as well. These elements combine to make them brutal close fighters... which I believe is their role.

        2) The GL. Oh boy, the GL. I agree that it's been over nerfed, but fixing it without making it return to noobtoob status is a difficult problem.

        Personally, I think the best aprouch would be to give it a non-liniar fall off damage model (or a dual level area effect if you prefer). WTF does that mean? Basicly, it would have a small Blast Zone that would be very high damage, but rather than gradually ramping it down the edge of that zone would be a cliff. Beyond it would be a larger Fragmentation Zone that starts at with much lower damage and falls off.

        This would allow it to be used as an anti-light armour weapon and would let you reliably kill with it with a good shot. It would also alow it to be used as an area effect weapon to soften up multiple targets, as an indirect fire weapon, or just to spam the crap outta places you know enemies will be coming from. By the same token, since you are more likely to take some damage from the larger fragmentation zone, it limits it's effectivness as a point blank banger.

        On the otherhand...

        Maybe the improvements to the other classes and the inability to jump and shoot would allow the old GL to be brought back without looking for extended solutions.

        Either way... if the GLs are rebuffed, one thing is certain... crys of "noobtoob" will once again grace all our chat screens.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: What I think is "wrong" with the assault class in versions 1.2 onward

          The aussalt class is just fine.

          only 2 more smoke grenades and maby 10/15% more stemia for sprint
          the accursery is just good. because the gun is already powerfull if you shoot
          2x burst your enemy is dead if your aim was good.

          and the aka101/47 are just crazy like hell

          look at my stats if you don't believe me

          my second ingame name is aussalt freak stat

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: What I think is "wrong" with the assault class in versions 1.2 onward

            The assault needs a more powerful main gun, More effective grenade launcher and a longer sprint. Problem solved!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: What I think is "wrong" with the assault class in versions 1.2 onward

              Originally posted by Evil_Eye
              The assault needs a more powerful main gun, More effective grenade launcher and a longer sprint. Problem solved!
              So wonderful for you to have demonstrated that you've read the thread thus far, understood all the points made, have a clear understand of the mechanics involved, and presented us with this invaluable feedback.

              Or rather the inverse of all those things.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: What I think is "wrong" with the assault class in versions 1.2 onward

                Theres nothing wrong with the assults rifles maybe a little accuracy tweak might help but it isnt really needed. Sprint is not a problem you can just sprint when you have two bars and hit jump which isnt as fast but is faster than walking.

                on the other hand ..maybee it wouldnt be a bad idea to allow assault the unique ability of being the only class that doesnt have a sprint bar...would have to be tested who knows.

                The really annoying thing is when you fire a GL at a humvee with 4 ppl in it. Once upon a time you would kill at least two pll in the humvee if not destroy it completley had it sustained some form of damage previously.

                Now it just bounces off if you hit it insted of the ground beside it and if your really unlucky and you hit the side of the humvee I have seen the odd GL bounce back and kill me. (Depends on the angle fired and the angle of the humvee when you hit it).

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: What I think is "wrong" with the assault class in versions 1.2 onward

                  Originally posted by Wargimp
                  Personally, I think the best aprouch would be to give it a non-liniar fall off damage model (or a dual level area effect if you prefer). WTF does that mean? Basicly, it would have a small Blast Zone that would be very high damage, but rather than gradually ramping it down the edge of that zone would be a cliff. Beyond it would be a larger Fragmentation Zone that starts at with much lower damage and falls off.
                  That is a very good Idea Wargimp, I would like to further suggest what Dice imho should have done to the GL instead of nerfing it the way they did. which is impliment a arming range so it can only be used at medium and long range.

                  This way its a powerfull weapon in the hands of somone who can aim well giving them a instant kill on a direct shot, while still retaining its spaming function albet as you suggest doing minium area of effect damage.

                  It would then be used as a secondary weapon, fired from a distance when enemys are dug in, being useless at close range.

                  This would give assult the added flexibity it needs to be a great class.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: What I think is "wrong" with the assault class in versions 1.2 onward

                    Yep, having an exponential decay for the GL damage from the point of impact to a much larger radius than we currently have would be the best way to improve assault. The reduced damage radius in 1.2 was an unnecessary tweak.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: What I think is "wrong" with the assault class in versions 1.2 onward

                      How about giving all assult handgrenades. Restoring the gl launcher the way it was exept now to fire it you have to aim trough ironsights, and it doesn't fire explosive grenades but smoke grenades. You can't use smoke grenades as a shotgun, but having the ability to deliver smokes accuratly over distances can incrase your value to your team, cause you can give them cover or obscure the enemies site accuratly so you can assult. Or would this overpower the assult kit.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: What I think is "wrong" with the assault class in versions 1.2 onward

                        Keeping the arming distance the the inability to jump and shoot will keep the noob toob from returing. Assault is supposed to kill people. It is their niche in the game.

                        So, if you are getting killed a lot by the GL, THAT MAKES SENSE!

                        They can't heal, they can't resupply themselves, they can't snipe so well, they can't take out heavy vehicles and they can't repair. Their job is to take out infantry.

                        The GL seriously needs to have the blast radius increased. It was fine before, now, it is ridiculously small.

                        With everything being equal, all other infantry kits are supposed to lose to the assault class at mid to close range (outside of shotgun range). That would bring balance to the class. However, the nerf of the blast radius of the GL as effectively destroyed an assualt's ability to take out a PKMer at a mid range. They both have armor and now the support has a more powerful gun.

                        The GL is supposed to and should be deadly and should have its blast radius increased.

                        That being said, i think the assault guns themselves are fine. The G3 is deadly and the stock guns are great fro clean up duty after a GL.

                        All the assault needs is the GL to be more effective and it can be done so without overpowering it by just increasing the blast radius.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: What I think is "wrong" with the assault class in versions 1.2 onward

                          I would like to see them a little tougher. Perhaps their Armour slightly improved to take 1 more hit (not head shot).

                          4 smoke grenades.

                          A couple more flash bangs (since no one uses them)

                          Perhaps there is something that is missing that makes them great. I’m not sure what that is, but as commander when I look at my screen, I’m not seeing many. (yeah I know it was the GL-sorry to see that nixed all they had to do was make it so that bunnyhops couldn't fire one).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: What I think is "wrong" with the assault class in versions 1.2 onward

                            What i find annoying:

                            GL doesn't bounce on grounds, walls or anything else. It DOES bounce in vehicles, now i only use the GL on light vehicles, but since vehicles are the only things they do bounce on i have to aim at the ground which is near useless. Make it the other way round.....i wan't to be able shoot a GL through a window above me, bounce off the ceiling and into the room. Rather than it exploding on the ceiling and doing nothing. Then when i want to take out a group in a light vehicle, it bounces off and smacks into me sometimes...

                            If the G36E can be so accurate and powerful i don't see why the other assualt rifles can be. BF2 is about accuracy, not power. The weapons with the best accuracy win. Since CQC is rare in most maps. So it's stupid that assualt rifles are so innacurate. Which is why everyone chooses spec ops, medic, sniper and support for the accurate guns. I still use assualt as i can't be arsed for the annoying responsibility (and i don't like doing what everyone is doing) of being medic/support.

                            More smoke grenades is a must - i want a reason as to why only one is given.

                            EDIT: I've also noticed that flashbangs makes the screen go white EVEN if you are looking away from them. Well it's largly uselss then, sometimes i try to flash a tank but me and others who are looking away get flashed aswell. Useless...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: What I think is "wrong" with the assault class in versions 1.2 onward

                              All this talk about making the assault class useful.....lol.....EA/Dice nerfed the class in several ways due to public outcry (read: crybabies). You really think they are going to touch this class again???

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