ROE Open Discussion and Forums

[[MyIS]Spetsnaz]

Re: ROE Open Discussion and Forums

But this sh't is going to far, and they should not make changing the rules, to be more and more strict – that’s just wrong

Such as? It's statements like these that cloud judgement for community members that aren't in 'the know'. I hate to put it this way but I must -- what the heck are you talking about?

I'm an avid reader on history, everything from World War 2 to the end of the Cold War. I also saw first hand the affect on Soviet Russia when the government was completely toppled for a Democratic institution (tanks in the streets of Moscow). Comparing communist oppression and the Cold War to enforcing the BF2 ROE is a bit of a stretch don't you think?

[Sir. bzb]

Re: ROE Open Discussion and Forums

Comparing communist oppression and the Cold War to enforcing the BF2 ROE is a bit of a stretch don't you think?

curious way to put it but if you wanted to relate this to that senario you would have to have bfroe as the communists, the sever admins representing the west and the players forever stuck in the middle.
The satalite communist nations would be played by service providers, acting as a buffer from any ground led assualt by the admins.
West Berlin would be played by totalbf2, independant but surrounded.
The nuclear weapons would be the reports of servers sent to EA on one side and on the other the pre-emptive ban option held by the admin as well as the choice to terminate the bf2 process. No matter the outcome the people caught in the middle wouldnt win.

Well, thats what i got when i tried to relate it to the cold war.

[{MoW} Brahma]

Re: ROE Open Discussion and Forums

Why would you pick some one that has totally alienated so many in the community to run any program? Indian Scouts tenure at BF2RS was embarrassing. He changed his stance on issues daily and when he was proven wrong his response would be to ban the person from the forums and more times than not, delete the thread. Many of the server providers see him as nothing but a joke. He has been told by these same server providers to not come on any servers they rent. BF2RS was a good idea but the entire project was tainted by one person.

[Pr0metheus]

Re: ROE Open Discussion and Forums

Why would you pick some one that has totally alienated so many in the community to run any program? Indian Scouts tenure at BF2RS was embarrassing. He changed his stance on issues daily and when he was proven wrong his response would be to ban the person from the forums and more times than not, delete the thread. Many of the server providers see him as nothing but a joke. He has been told by these same server providers to not come on any servers they rent. BF2RS was a good idea but the entire project was tainted by one person.

This is just another good example of someone posting who sits on his lips and talks out of his rearend. Man you have no idea, you dont have a clue as to what went on behind the scenes and what goes on in the BF2RS organization, which by the way is a very stand up group of admins. To put it bluntly, you are a *#!*^% to post and bash someone who would spend countless hours trying his best to better the BF2 community.
When you join an organization, spend 15 to 20 hours a day policing its ranks, checking their servers, staying in contact with all the main players in the software community....then and only then young man, can you make a comment on someone you know absolutely nothing about.

[{MoW} Brahma]

Re: ROE Open Discussion and Forums

"This is just another good example of someone posting who sits on his lips and talks out of his rearend"

Wrong! I have had run ins with IS and I was always in the right. IS won't admit it but he knows it is true. BF2RS was told to stay off my server providers servers, not just the one I rent, but all of the servers they rent as a direct result of the way IS conducted himself. When I first rented my server I did some thing I learned in the military. Its called CYOA. I had my gps check my rules with EA. EA said they are fine yet even after being shown proof IS still tryied to report me. Know what happened? Nothing becuase I had already verified my rules. IS then banned my form the BF2RS forums so I could no longer defend myself. And I am not some teenager. You sir are the one talking out the rearend.

[Pr0metheus]

Re: ROE Open Discussion and Forums

Why were you banned from the BF2RS server providers forums? Was there personal attacks against one of their admins that caused the removal?
I am the new director of server services on the BFMP side of things, please feel free to post any issues, or comments, concerns, or questions you may have, and we will try our best to help you out. We now have a great group of people assembled (not youngsters) but for the most part, older mature gamers who enjoy the game for the gameplay, but dont take kindly to those who like to play the game and exploit its flaws.
As with anything, there is always a remedy to any situation. I appologise if I assumed you were a youngster (teenager) but the post sounded like a rant from a youngster. I personally dont like post(s) made attacking someone else, especially if that person has spent countless hours trying to better the community.
Regards
Pr0metheus

[{MoW} Brahma]

Re: ROE Open Discussion and Forums

No there was not any personal attacks (from me anyway). A bf2rs admin over stepped his bounds and tried to report us for a bogus reason. I defended our server with proof that what we were doing was legit. In this case it was making people join squads. IS did fire the admin that started it all but he also fired another admin that came to our defense because IS felt the rule was a violation and the admin stuck up for us. This admin played on our server regularly and knew that we encouraged fair play so he stood up for us. Since his views differed from IS he was fired even after IS was shown proof, from EA that our rules were legit.

I am fortunate to be with a server provider that polices itself so to be honest I know now that no matter what people post on either BF2RS and BF2ROE it will not effect me. My provider has only had to pull one ranked server and they did it themselves 3 days before EA even contacted them.

The concept is a good one but still to many variables. Jonnypublic gets kicked for being an idiot and he will use either site to make a complaint of some wrong doing when there was none. Once the full story is known it is proven that the server admin did nothing wrong and little jonnypublic deserved the kick, but it still leaves a bad image for that clan. Because of human nature, what people will remember is "oh that server was reported" and not "that server was falsely reported.”

[Pr0metheus]

Re: ROE Open Discussion and Forums

Agreed,alot of pubs report servers for personal vendetta's ie kick or banned for being a jerk. This does happen alot. A good report will include both sides of the story, and also post evidence that the claim was either supported, or not supported for further action.
Some of the characters actually will repeatedly join the server with the hopes of having an admin kick them for various reasons, the favorite is violating the server rules. Then they will come crying on the forums and say how nasty the server or its admins were, and how abused they were while visiting the server. What they fail to realize is that groups of individuals, clans, sometime individuals spend their hard earned money renting these servers, and are allowed to set guidelines in direct correlation to the ROE to run their servers, and dont have to put up with nonsence from someone joining if they cant play by the rules of engagement. I agree that if a player doesnt adhere to the server rules, as long as the server has a clear set and not in violation, then they should readily be removed without incident.
My favorite is replying to them to find another server to play on if they cant abide by the rules.

[claevade]

Re: ROE Open Discussion and Forums

What are the exact differences between BF2RS and BFROE?

[« R²» HKS]

Re: ROE Open Discussion and Forums

Agreed,alot of pubs report servers for personal vendetta's ie kick or banned for being a jerk. This does happen alot. A good report will include both sides of the story, and also post evidence that the claim was either supported, or not supported for further action.
Some of the characters actually will repeatedly join the server with the hopes of having an admin kick them for various reasons, the favorite is violating the server rules. Then they will come crying on the forums and say how nasty the server or its admins were, and how abused they were while visiting the server. What they fail to realize is that groups of individuals, clans, sometime individuals spend their hard earned money renting these servers, and are allowed to set guidelines in direct correlation to the ROE to run their servers, and dont have to put up with nonsence from someone joining if they cant play by the rules of engagement. I agree that if a player doesnt adhere to the server rules, as long as the server has a clear set and not in violation, then they should readily be removed without incident.
My favorite is replying to them to find another server to play on if they cant abide by the rules.

OK tell me this how are you going to hear both sides with this new ticket system both BFROE and also BF2RS are implementing. It won't be made public in the forums as it is now. It won't be for all to see so how are the admins that pay so Joe Tard can play for free going to be able to defend themselves against their BS claims? This is what is concerning me about this new ticket system.

[machstem]

Re: ROE Open Discussion and Forums

This is just another good example of someone posting who sits on his lips and talks out of his rearend. Man you have no idea, you dont have a clue as to what went on behind the scenes and what goes on in the BF2RS organization, which by the way is a very stand up group of admins. To put it bluntly, you are a *#!*^% to post and bash someone who would spend countless hours trying his best to better the BF2 community.
When you join an organization, spend 15 to 20 hours a day policing its ranks, checking their servers, staying in contact with all the main players in the software community....then and only then young man, can you make a comment on someone you know absolutely nothing about.

15-20 hours a day? Some of you need lives.

As for the ROE and the new ones, I spelled out my views on it, disputing with validated examples, and I haven't received one answer to any of them. I agree there should be rules, although not a fan of them. I follow them, but only when the rules aren't open to interpretation.

How about hiring someone that knows what they are doing when creating rules and/or policies? You need to properly adjust your policies within sections, sub-sections and consider adding clauses, because all you are doing is representing a flawed and invalid system of rules.

You're trying to apply rules to generate fair play amongst players across the ranking system, yet the ROE are again changing, and the admins who have breached them will mostly have gotten away with it. Again, if you're to justify your rules, and some of you spend countless hours a day reviewing claims, then have something concrete that cannot be disputed.

I agree that an admin who does not want to follow the rules simply has to render their server unranked, but it's not the admins most of you should be concerned about in this respect, it's the public members continuously complaining about unfair advantages on the admins, and they are blamed, accuses of doing nothing but just that, complaining.

By allowing certain aspects of a game to be restricted, yet allow a contradicting rule to be given admin interpretation on other aspects of the game (spawn camping, base raping...or in your own terms: whoring) <-- who in their right mind is "whoring" their body to a vehicle or weapon or map? What are you trying to express?

Again, I'm not against the rules, I'm against having the rules so open to interpretation. We need something with valid examples, or nothing at all. Let the admins control how they want to run the server...but wait, then the ranking system becomes flawed? Surprise surprise, it's already been exploited, since the first month when a group of would-be crackers generated everyone's stats to over 35million points...oh and in recent history, the would-be clan hackers that found a very large flaw and exploit in generating themselves crazy amounts of points.

If even necessary, DICE/EA can create mini-apps within their servers, as modded servers have been doing, to give admins more "access" to control how rules are controlled, if and how they are abused. I still see people abusing and using what some people consider "stat padding".

I don't like it, nor do I think it's relevant (I play for the game/win, not the points) but if the exploit(s) is/are to be abolished and/or controlled, then steps need to be taken into preventing the rules from being broken, rather than "judging them" after the fact.

PEACE

[old sch00l]

Re: ROE Open Discussion and Forums

He must have felt strongly enough to sign up, weather or not he's a spoon head is debatable

You guys decide :)

[Pr0metheus]

Re: ROE Open Discussion and Forums

The ROE is a living document, and subject to changes by input from the community. I am not an author of the ROE, but use my good judgment when determining if there is any validity to clams made of someone or some server violating them.
The problem that I can see with taking every scenerio that someone would come across while playing or admining their server is the ROE would become so huge, you would need volumes just to hold the information.
When enough players, and admins from the community respond that they want something changed, then it goes through BF2RS, and BF ROE and with Shawn over at EA, they discuss how to modify the ROE, and make the necessary changes.
The best way for someone to admin their server is to have their non conflicting rules scrolling every few minutes, if someone violates said rules, if its not violating the ROE, then the person is violating your server policies, if he gets kicked, and or banned, then they can go to another server to play.
A player does not have the inherent right to play on a server if he or she is abusive to their admins, dont follow the rules, and are in general a jackass. Yes, ranked servers must be open for public play, but there are limits to what the admins, owners have to put up with.
The ROE, is a set of rules, they will constantly be debated, altered, and debated some more as long as the game is being played, probably long after I am dead and dust.

[machstem]

Re: ROE Open Discussion and Forums

Understood.

I could see where the workload becomes difficult, as policies or at least a good policy, normally are volumes long to prevent abuse by those abiding, those that enforce and those that judge.

Considering this is a simple game, the admins should be given just enough right to allow or disallow certain activities from taking place, without being able to abuse their power.

Whether you're an avid gamer just looking for a good time, an admin ready to accept public players and enjoy their time, we're mostly all in it for one thing, the game. It's sad to know idiots want and feel it is necessary to exploit the system, but it's not always random groups of idiots that abuse the system, those with power do so as well.

I've read and seen people make complaints against servers (ranked) before and it seems to me most aren't held liable for infracting on the rules, and I guess it's to be expected with no central governance. (one or several central servers)

I do hope your team considers forming valid examples within the ROE so admins cannot be led to believe they can do whatever they want within a server, although it is theirs. I'm sure actual examples, rather than using terms such as "whoring" can be added to the ROE without any dispute from either admin or player. Some people can try, but if the rules are there, then they cannot complain, everyone must abide by a set of rules.

Again, simple: One set of rules for every ranked server. This makes it funner, renders the ranking system valid and gives a little freedom for admins to properly manage their servers, all the time giving them less leniance or interpretation towards kicking/banning players simply "because they can".

I'm the first to admit that I enjoy bringing up these forms of questions, mostly because I don't agree with some of the rules, but I'd like to point out that I debate within reason, and either way will accept the rules as they are. In the end, I am here to play, this forum is just an extension of my "playfulness"

PEACE

[bitvomit]

Re: ROE Open Discussion and Forums

I wish this much consideration was given to our opinions regarding gameplay improvements. This just gives 16 year old spazes a place to play snitch. Completely pointless. How about a site that seriously organizes and rates community suggestions about the game. Nahhh that would be entirely to constructive for EA. It is like reacting to low test scores in a school district by saying, "well maybe if we expell children who get C's on tests we will have a higher district average." Make more improvments, link expansion packs to vanilla (the fact that Euro doesnt carry over into vanilla is rediculous) oh and how about this...brace yourself maybe some free content! oh my god!. How about a remake of DC_village and DC_Basras Edge. Something for the love of god.

I totally agree. 99% of the garbage at BF2RS is stat padding accusations. Instead of spending money for the BF2 police, EA needs create a website where the BF2 community can influence changes in the game. BF2RS is a sound idea just not so good in execution. I hope the new site sheds the old skin but I'm not about to hold my breath.