SU-30/34 - Who put this into the game?

[F-1]

Re: SU-30/34 - Who put this into the game?

No, he just doesnt want the bomber to have a high chance (by default) of taking him down when hes in a fighter.

They already do not have that high chance of shooting down a fighter. you seem to agree with that and I agree with it. Are we disagreeing on something here then?

And Wargimp has already said why his aviation stats are low. I advise you to give him the benefit of the doubt, or find him and take him for a dogfight.

I am not defending anyone's skills here and I am not interested a bit in challenging him in a dogfight.
The point I am saying is that your stats do not qualify/disqualify you from stating your opinion that might be valid or better than the opinion of the guy with the "good" stats.

[unununium]

Re: SU-30/34 - Who put this into the game?

You know what's the biggest BS with the new patch? Getting shot down by a bomber while you're piloting a fighter.

The only reason this should happen is if a) you aren't very good at flying or, b) the bomber gets the drop on you from long range and pounds your butt with missiles.

[Evil_Snowman40]

Re: SU-30/34 - Who put this into the game?

I have flown a little bit, just my 2 cents. I think conservativly it's 75% pilot skill/tactics and 25% aircraft that makes up his survivability and effectiveness. I say that because in my experience a decent pilot with a joystick is usually able to accomplish his goals for a good portion of the round before getting killed. If you are in a bomber you can increase your survival rate dramatically by having a good copilot (I know...they are hard to come by). A good copilot should take out targets of opportunity so that you dont have to get "down in the weeds" on every pass. That will get you killed quick. He can also help you check 6 and spot fighters before they see you, which you MUST do often. Also having a plan...where are the most targets, where is the AA, where does my team need the most help..can keep you up longer. If you just loiter around the battlefield you are gonna get spotted and go down...count on it. Better to try to "come out of nowhere", strike and egress fast. If/when a fighter does get behind you...if he has a joystick and is a competent pilot he stands a good chance of taking you down or at least putting a real hurt on you. Thats just life.
Plenty has been posted already on these forums about dogfighting by those much better than myself so I wont go there. Many of you on here know all of what I said already...surprisingly many playing the game do not. This is the way I see it anyways.

[mr_o]

Re: SU-30/34 - Who put this into the game?

It's not always just nandy dandy to take out the bombers, SU-34 is better than the F-35 JSF, It can keep up with it in terms of manouvrability, but not speed.

if u cant fly the F35 yes. if u can. no

[F-1]

Re: SU-30/34 - Who put this into the game?

if u cant fly the F35 yes. if u can. no

F35B is the best manoeuvrable jet in the game.

[TheGhost]

Re: SU-30/34 - Who put this into the game?

My problem is he's an arrogant prick. Someone says that the bombers have been given too high of a chance to down the fighters in A2A combat. Why even have fighters if the bombers get much more powerful bombs AND get to be almost as good at A2A? Bombers should not come close to the A2A abilities of the fighters, it would be like giving transport choppers nearly equal odds in a fight against an attack helo.

Gimpys response is that "skilled pilots" would never let the bomber get in a position to take them out. Please tell me exactly wtf he knows about what skilled pilots do? This is insulting to pilots who understand the way air combat works in this game. If he had more than three hours of seat time he would realize that there just isn't that much room up there and at some point the bomber will get lucky and have the fighter drop right into his lap no matter which one is the better pilot, and at that point the bomber has a better chance than it should to kill the fighter. It happens and it's unavoidable. My problem is that by making his "skilled pilots" remark, he is taking a backhanded shot at the person with the complaint and suggesting that they must not be a skilled pilot.

Frankly I'm just tired of watching people spout off about aspects of this game they have no experience with. It's ironic that Gimpys favorite word is "adapt", when so many parts of this game have been screwed up by cry babies who couldn't do exactly that. Instead of adapting to the AA in the game people cried until it got turned into what we saw in 1.2. The people who cried about AA before 1.2 were the ones who had spent 5 minutes using it and decided it was impossible and threw in the towel.

Instead of adapting and learning how to use teamwork against a Blackhawk people cried until it was turned into a flying joke that can be dispatched in about 5 seconds by a single person on the ground. (Why should 6 people working together to keep a helo in the air be so easily countered by one person on the ground? And no, I never did get into the whole BH whoring scene, I was busy playing as a sniper back in those days. I got killed a lot by BH's, but I didn't cry about it.)

Same goes for bunny hopping, dolphin diving, and noob tubes. Sure I'll agree that those could be annoying, but for me they were annoying not because they were hard to counter (they weren't) but because the people doing it just looked like idiots in my opinion. But of course, instead of just learning how to kill people using those things, people cried and complained until they got taken out of the game. I've never seen a game that has been watered down to such an extent as BF2 to appease the ignorant masses.

Anyway, back to Gimpy. I'm not saying he can't have an opinion, but when someone has an opposing opinion it's stupid and arrogant to try and imply that their only problem is that they aren't skilled enough, especially when taking into consideration his own stats.

And Wargimp has already said why his aviation stats are low. I advise you to give him the benefit of the doubt, or find him and take him for a dogfight.

I think that was directed at me, so here's my response:

I'll dogfight him where ever I find him. Chances are though that will only be here on the forums where he's probably logged a couple hundred hours talking about flying, as opposed to his grand total of three actually doing it.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: SU-30/34 - Who put this into the game?

I am not defending anyone's skills here and I am not interested a bit in challenging him in a dogfight.
The point I am saying is that your stats do not qualify/disqualify you from stating your opinion that might be valid or better than the opinion of the guy with the "good" stats.

Ducky, that wasnt adressed to you as youre not opposing Wargimp! :laugh:

For Gimps defense- he considers dogfight being started from the spot where the enemy jet is in LOS. He also seemed to think that the first spotter should have a very, very high chance to be the first killer. Its fundamentally different from what for example I believe in. (Which is- first spotter shouldnt have a killing chance by spotting alone. He should have an initiative, and everything else should come out from the battle of maneuvering and outmaneuvering)

And I have no doubts in Gimpys flight record.

Gimpys response is that "skilled pilots" would never let the bomber get in a position to take them out.

I agree, I as a pilot feel a bit offended by this thought. Theres no way this kind of situation wouldnt happen. Just not possible.

F35B is the best manoeuvrable jet in the game.

It is, but its response, stability is still outmatched by J-10s smaller turn radius. It depends on what you consider "better maneuverability". Fast response time or smaller turn radius.

[WarGimp]

Re: SU-30/34 - Who put this into the game?

Anyway, back to Gimpy. I'm not saying he can't have an opinion, but when someone has an opposing opinion it's stupid and arrogant to try and imply that their only problem is that they aren't skilled enough, especially when taking into consideration his own stats.

Someone's got a bur up their bum, eh?
:laugh:
Did you miss the self depritiating remarks about my own skills? Just 'cause I don't have the skills (or more likely, hardware... as in crap comp and no joystick) required to even remotely conister myself a good pilot doesn't mean I don't understand the mechanics involved. I have a degree in that field, ya know.

Anyway, no, I wasn't implying that you suck.

I was stating that according to the way the mechanics are in place, fighters DO have a distinct advantage over bombers. Given that bombers are less manueverable than fighters and that both pilots are of the same skill level, the fighter should win every time.

That's just theory, tho. Everyone knows that stuff happens. If you don't see someone dropping on your tail, there's not much you can do about it. Even then, a fighter has a better chance of being able to break off than the bomber does.

I simply don't see your point.

If you've got a particular suggestion, make it.
Save the bile and bitterness for something that might actually matter, aye?

[TheGhost]

Re: SU-30/34 - Who put this into the game?

I simply don't see your point.

I'm not surprised. That's ok though, people who actually play the game instead of just talking about it on messagage boards know exactly what my point was. Seriously though, you should consider doing hotel commercials.

Random guy: "Golly gee Mr. Wargimp, you sure do know an awful lot about flying in that video game, you must have spent a lot of time doing it to be able to speak about it with so much authority."

Wargimp: "Actually I've barely gotten my feet wet as far as flight time, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night!"

[F-1]

Re: SU-30/34 - Who put this into the game?

It is, but its response, stability is still outmatched by J-10s smaller turn radius. It depends on what you consider "better maneuverability". Fast response time or smaller turn radius.

judging a jets maneuverability is a complicated business as every jet has many advantages and disadvantages. The trick her is to know your jet well. I agree with you that it depends on your definition of maneuverability and which aspect of it we are talking about.

[WarGimp]

Re: SU-30/34 - Who put this into the game?

I'm not surprised. That's ok though, people who actually play the game instead of just talking about it on messagage boards know exactly what my point was. Seriously though, you should consider doing hotel commercials.

Random guy: "Golly gee Mr. Wargimp, you sure do know an awful lot about flying in that video game, you must have spent a lot of time doing it to be able to speak about it with so much authority."

Wargimp: "Actually I've barely gotten my feet wet as far as flight time, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night!"

How about actually stating your point instead of running your ignorance up the flagpole, hmm?

All I'm getting from your posts so far is "Whaaaa! I wanna pwnzoriz all the bombers 'cause fighters are supposed to pwnzoriz the bombers!"

Grow up.

[Jesse]

Re: SU-30/34 - Who put this into the game?

Someone says that the bombers have been given too high of a chance to down the fighters in A2A combat. Why even have fighters if the bombers get much more powerful bombs AND get to be almost as good at A2A? Bombers should not come close to the A2A abilities of the fighters, it would be like giving transport choppers nearly equal odds in a fight against an attack helo.

Gimpys response is that "skilled pilots" would never let the bomber get in a position to take them out. Please tell me exactly wtf he knows about what skilled pilots do? This is insulting to pilots who understand the way air combat works in this game. If he had more than three hours of seat time he would realize that there just isn't that much room up there and at some point the bomber will get lucky and have the fighter drop right into his lap no matter which one is the better pilot, and at that point the bomber has a better chance than it should to kill the fighter.

For one, even though the planes in game are far from realistic, the "bombers" used in this game aren't exactly B-52's we're talking about. Despite being called bombers, they are fairly capable in air to air combat as well. Also, the fighters have a small amount of bombs on them, as they also can be used as multi-role platforms. Why not complain let's take fighters away because people can bomb with them? They are FIGHTERS after all. I don't see the word bomb in the word fighters, so they must not be meant to bomb, right?


And that second paragraph I have quoted. What the heck do you want the fighters to do before you call it fair, LAND UPSIDE DOWN? If a fighter screws up and lets a bomber get the drop on him, he deserves to get shot down. I believe you, sir, are the one who needs to learn a little about flying. Seat time means nothing, the ranking system means nothing (unless maybe a direct relationship to amount of your life you have lived since registering versus the amount of that you've wasted on BF2, which with some people that ratio is frighteningly close to a 1 to 1 ratio). I agree there isn't much room up there, but the fighters and bombers both have to obey that ceiling that has been imposed, so you don't even have an arguement there. If a fighter takes is mind of his main job, air superiority, and allows a bomber to get on his six, by all means he deserves to lose the plane. He can get in and try again, but on that particular engagement, he allowed someone to get behind him, and as long as the person behind him has somewhat of a clue of what they're doing, they deserve that chance to shoot the plane down.

[Six.]

Re: SU-30/34 - Who put this into the game?

Whichever person at DICE thought this one up, should honestly be fired.
This thing is so unbalanced its not even funny. It reminds me of precisely why i dont play the maps that have it.
Its ridiculous when your in a bandwagon of 2-3 jeeps, 2 APCs and 2 tanks and a single SU 30/34 bomb run takes out EVERYthing.
I finally went and stole it from the Chinese on daqing a minute ago and gave them a dose of their own medicine for a few minutes until i lagged and hit a smoke stack.
I really thnk they need to nerf this things bombs.

Well... hey, the Chinese ARE defending their homeland in those maps- I suppose it makes sense that they're better equipped and stocked than the intruders. :p