SU-30/34 - Who put this into the game?

[Dilla_Incognito]

Re: SU-30/34 - Who put this into the game?

until i lagged and hit a smoke stack.

the super huge big smoke stacks....or the those skinny red ones?

cuz if its the big ones... :p

[imported_Calibre]

Re: SU-30/34 - Who put this into the game?

Tonight I was a full blown digital hero - and what did it get me? here's the story. Daqing Oilfields and the Chinese are running rampant when I join the server, can hardly spawn or get more than a few yards out of the UCB without being mowed and in game chat everyone is whinging about the superiority of the PLA airforce blah blah blah, next round, we had to play USMC again! not even swap the teams at the end of the round, how lame is that? Well surprise surprise, the same people carry on as the round before. So I hoped into the F-18. Died a few times until I got the hang of it as I ain't flown it in a long time. I start to rolll with the PLA airforce. Into the round now and USMC is holding it's own no longer pinned back to the UCB like last time and the tide of battle seems to be turning.

I manage to down both the J-10 and the SU-30 in quick sucession. Now luck would have it. They're both on the ground at the same time. ok! so now i'm counting in my head making sure i'm up round the old city when they go to action again, to try and keep at least one of them down. Most vunerable time in a plane is take off or land right? Hell i'm going to use this to my advantage, and.. I start nailing them taking off; and generally giving them a hard time, resulting in the PLA bleeding tickets with us controling most of the map, meanwhile i'm keeping the bomber pretty much grounded as best I can... - AND THEY KICKED ME FOR BASERAPING !!! *sigh* *shakes head*

just thought i'd share that, I know it does have some relevance to the discussion somewhere :)

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: SU-30/34 - Who put this into the game?

So you are saying a bomber should not be able to shoot down a fighter?

Its amazing how you can miss a clear hint that bomber againts a fighter should never have a chance of 50:50. Which is why one is called a bomber and one is called a fighter.

It should. But I bet his frustration comes from a fact that a bomber can now be on par with the fighter in ATA.

[WarGimp]

Re: SU-30/34 - Who put this into the game?

Its amazing how you can miss a clear hint that bomber againts a fighter should never have a chance of 50:50. Which is why one is called a bomber and one is called a fighter.

It should. But I bet his frustration comes from a fact that a bomber can now be on par with the fighter in ATA.

Umm... that isn't a fact.

All fighters have better maueverability than any bomber.
If a fighter pilot ends up in a situation where he bomber has a chance to take him out, he's done farked up!

Head to head, yeah... the bombers and fighters have aboult the same chance of taking eachother out, but it's the skilled fighter pilot who knows they should never get themselves in that situation.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: SU-30/34 - Who put this into the game?

All fighters have better maueverability than any bomber.
If a fighter pilot ends up in a situation where he bomber has a chance to take him out, he's done farked up!

That chance is a "lock-on". And in the small map with flat terrain its almost impossible to run into someone or someone running into you.

A pilot in BF2 can not discard the possibility that another will run into him unsuspectably just as he can run into someone else. Coupled with missiles being very effective- yes, a bomber can take out a fighter.

I messed up with the English though. Its not a fact that a bomber is on par with the fighter. But his frustration obviously comes from a bomber taking him out when hes on a fighter.

If a missiles "shoot to hit" probability is about 80% (or what woul dyou estimate right now?), how many missiles does it take to get at least 1 hit? 2? 3?

Now, you only need a 2-3 second window to fire those missiles. Are you saying a bomber can not stay on a fighters tail for 2-3 seconds? I say a bomber can do that. And if a bomber can stay behind for long enough to fire off enough missiles to get at least 1 hit, then a bomber is on par with a fighter. Thats assuming a fighter does anything to break the lock. You see the logic?

[WarGimp]

Re: SU-30/34 - Who put this into the game?

Now, you only need a 2-3 second window to fire those missiles. Are you saying a bomber can not stay on a fighters tail for 2-3 seconds? I say a bomber can do that. And if a bomber can stay behind for long enough to fire off enough missiles to get at least 1 hit, then a bomber is on par with a fighter. Thats assuming a fighter does anything to break the lock. You see the logic?

Certainly... however, the fighter has an undeniable advantage over bombers. If nothing else, the larger A2A missile payload means that a fighter can splash more planes before having to re-arm than a bomber. Better manueverability means that bombers are less likely to remain on a fighter's tail, while a fighter shouldn't have any problems tailing a bomber.

And, FYI, all of the bombers in BF2 are actually classified as fighter/bombers. They aren't intended for CAP duty, but can handle it if required.

[TheGhost]

Re: SU-30/34 - Who put this into the game?

it's the skilled fighter pilot who knows they should never get themselves in that situation.

There's something funny about a guy with three hours in a plane and a .8 K/D ratio talking about what skilled pilots do. Yeah I went there, go ahead and cry about it. But do us all a favor and stop talking as though you are an authority on subjects that you clearly don't have a clue about.

[Ghilleman]

Re: SU-30/34 - Who put this into the game?

just because he has 80% k/d ratio doesnt mean he has no idea what hes talking about. How many of your jet kills were A2A?

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: SU-30/34 - Who put this into the game?

Certainly... however, the fighter has an undeniable advantage over bombers. If nothing else, the larger A2A missile payload means that a fighter can splash more planes before having to re-arm than a bomber. Better manueverability means that bombers are less likely to remain on a fighter's tail, while a fighter shouldn't have any problems tailing a bomber.

And, FYI, all of the bombers in BF2 are actually classified as fighter/bombers. They aren't intended for CAP duty, but can handle it if required.

Uhm... Wargimp, seriously, dont treat me as a kid please. I am well aware of what those planes are. The reason everyone classifies them as "bombers" and "fighters" is because thats what their speciality in BF2 is.

The fighters have an undeniable advantage over bombers until a bomber gets a solid lock on a fighter and kills it with missiles that have a great "shoot to kill" probability. Now, if its very possible for a bomber to acquire a lock, suddenly this "undeniable advantage" doesnt seem a very big one at all.

[Ghilleman]

Re: SU-30/34 - Who put this into the game?

Well, the missles don't give a damn what you're flying, so if a bomber has missles, tough. Bombers should at least have some chance in the air, and that chance may get you killed. deal.

[F-1]

Re: SU-30/34 - Who put this into the game?

Its amazing how you can miss a clear hint that bomber againts a fighter should never have a chance of 50:50. Which is why one is called a bomber and one is called a fighter.

It should. But I bet his frustration comes from a fact that a bomber can now be on par with the fighter in ATA.

Right now a bomber vs fighter is NOT a 50:50 chance. but also it should not be 100:0 for the fighter.
I did not miss that "clear hint". I so no point on this complaint that a fighter CAN shoot down a bomber.

I understood from his complaint that he wants a fighter to be always the winner, which means the jet fighter has to take off ... drop his bombs... get shot down... respawn... etc

If they do not have a chance of survival in air to air combats then what is the point in flying one of them?

There's something funny about a guy with three hours in a plane and a .8 K/D ratio talking about what skilled pilots do. Yeah I went there, go ahead and cry about it. But do us all a favor and stop talking as though you are an authority on subjects that you clearly don't have a clue about.

Your argument means that you cannot understand any reasoning. I do not see how someone's stats can make him more qualified to talk about something more than the others.

It is just so irritating that you go and present an argument then someone comes and dsiqualifiesyou because he was not idiot enough to spend hundreds or thousands of hours playing.

[WarGimp]

Re: SU-30/34 - Who put this into the game?

There's something funny about a guy with three hours in a plane and a .8 K/D ratio talking about what skilled pilots do. Yeah I went there, go ahead and cry about it. But do us all a favor and stop talking as though you are an authority on subjects that you clearly don't have a clue about.

It's quite possible to have knowlage on a subject and not actually be skilled at it.
:p
I don't fly much in ranked servers simply because I know damned well that there's likely to be someone with higher skill that can take those birds up. I do enjoy goofing around with them in unranked servers tho. My lack of skill also doesn't mitigate the fact that I hold a degree in game design, either.

Uhm... Wargimp, seriously, dont treat me as a kid please. I am well aware of what those planes are. The reason everyone classifies them as "bombers" and "fighters" is because thats what their speciality in BF2 is.

Relax dude. I'm not treatin ya like a kid, I'm just discussing.

The fighters have an undeniable advantage over bombers until a bomber gets a solid lock on a fighter and kills it with missiles that have a great "shoot to kill" probability. Now, if its very possible for a bomber to acquire a lock, suddenly this "undeniable advantage" doesnt seem a very big one at all.

The fighters have a manueverability advantage and carry more missiles.
In theory there's no reason for a fighter to get shot down by a bomber if skill levels and enviromental awareness is the same for both pilots.
So else what do you want?
Crappier missiles for bombers?
That doesn't make a whole lot of sence to me. IMHO, Bombers should be able to defend themselves if they catch a fighter at a bad time.
I could see mayber reducing their missile load to 2 (yikes!) and upping their bomb load as a way of pushing them more towards their intended role... but I think you'd end up with A LOT of screaming over that tweak.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: SU-30/34 - Who put this into the game?

Right now a bomber vs fighter is NOT a 50:50 chance. but also it should not be 100:0 for the fighter.
I did not miss that "clear hint". I so no point on this complaint that a fighter CAN shoot down a bomber.

I understood from his complaint that he wants a fighter to be always the winner, which means the jet fighter has to take off ... drop his bombs... get shot down... respawn... etc

If they do not have a chance of survival in air to air combats then what is the point in flying one of them?

No, he just doesnt want the bomber to have a high chance (by default) of taking him down when hes in a fighter.



-
And Wargimp has already said why his aviation stats are low. I advise you to give him the benefit of the doubt, or find him and take him for a dogfight.

The fighters have a manueverability advantage and carry more missiles.
In theory there's no reason for a fighter to get shot down by a bomber if skill levels and enviromental awareness is the same for both pilots.
So else what do you want?
Crappier missiles for bombers?
That doesn't make a whole lot of sence to me. IMHO, Bombers should be able to defend themselves if they catch a fighter at a bad time.
I could see mayber reducing their missile load to 2 (yikes!) and upping their bomb load as a way of pushing them more towards their intended role... but I think you'd end up with A LOT of screaming over that tweak.

LOL, no man, I dont want this to change. Im quite content with the situation. Im just defending a guys point of view here.

If something needs to be blamed, Id blame missiles high "shoot to hit" capability. Hes frustration obviously clouded his posts objectivity. Fact is, when engaging, a bomber shouldnt have as much of a chance to kill a fighter as in a vice versa situation. No, you dont have to make the bomber a huge target practice, it already is.

[WarGimp]

Re: SU-30/34 - Who put this into the game?

And Wargimp has already said why his aviation stats are low. I advise you to give him the benefit of the doubt, or find him and take him for a dogfight.

Thank ya.

Hehe, I don't make any claims to being anywhere near being a "good" pilot. I can be a sneaky SOB, tho. I managed to splash 2 J-10s with an F-18 the other night. No one was piloting our planes, so I grabbed it simply to prevent it being stolen. Nailed one J-10 while it was lining up on a bomber (that I'd been following just in case that was to happen) and got the other by preforming a rather insane breaking manuever that I'm perty sure isn't in any textbooks.

Then I flew into the ground.
Doh.
Edit: Forgot to mention... these kills were NOT in the same flight. I think I mounted that F-18 3 times before managing to convince a squad mate that the team would be best served by someone ELSE getting in the bird!

[Blades]

Re: SU-30/34 - Who put this into the game?

Lol, the worst feeling you can have in a plane is when you are in rear view watching the enemy jet on your tail as you try to avoid and all of a sudden, you just the see the camera pitch up and you're like ****! and then you go straight into the ground.