AA (mobile and static) in 1.21 - comments

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  • DrJambo
    Member
    • Oct 2006
    • 349

    #1

    AA (mobile and static) in 1.21 - comments

    Overall, compared to 1.12 I think things have improved for the ground pounders balance-wise against the jets. However, there are still a couple of points worthwhile of discussion -

    Mobile AA -
    In terms of mobile AA I don't see any real issue with the way things work. The fact they're mobile makes all the difference, as pilots now have to second guess their position or, heaven forbid, rely on good teamwork from the ground pounders to spot the mobile AA for them. The missiles now at least work, although actually hitting a J-10 can still be remarkably difficult in practice.

    I think the only one major issue with mobile AA is there isn't enough of them in BF2, with some maps not even spawning any mobile AA whatsoever - read Wake Island and Dalian Plant.

    Static AA -
    Well, here's where the problem still lies I'm afraid and 1.21 has in my opinion completely failed to address the problem from 1.12. This is particularly pertinent to those maps where this is the only form of defence against the skies for those on the ground (other than another skilled jet pilot of course).

    Now, I don't want this post to digress into a whine, so I'll keep it in the tone of simply stating my observations. For me the problem lies not only with the ability of the static AA sites, but also in the whole idea of having static AA sites in the first place (DICE shame on you ). Granted we all agree the ability of the AA to hit a jet has been improved post-1.12; however, at the same time (lest we forget) - it was also nerfed! The missile is more likely to hit, but the range which someone can actually target and take down the jet has been significantly reduced, and I'd argue it's been reduced to a level that's now incompatible with its intended role.

    You see, we now have a situation where skilled pilots know the position of each and every static AA site. Pilots also have the heads-up on whether they're manned or not, whilst the person manning the AA site has no idea on which direction the jet will be attacking from... the battle of intelligence is clearly one-sided. On top of this, the reduced range of the AA site (one can see the jets but not lock on to them) means jets can cannon AA sites long before they can retaliate in any shape or form! As a result it's commonplace to see good pilots completely dominating static AA sites, things that were placed on the map for precisely the opposite effect..

    With static AA sites, you're literally highlighting your position with a big bright homing beacon for jet cannons. Getting in one is a deathwish, not to mention one of the most boring things to do as a ground pounder in BF2. I wouldn't have minded so much if sthe static AA sites required skill or offered some degree of fun to operate. With the reduced range one can spend ages spotting jets but doing nothing against them. If the jet pilot skilled enough to work out it's manned then in all honesty you're better off running for it rather than trying in vain to deal with the problem jet. Even if he doesn't, all the pilot has to do is climb a little in altitude and the range is too short to maintain lock.

    So, in summary -
    The static AA is effectively as useless as it was in 1.12. THe advantage of more effective missiles is negated by the now pitiful range. Mobile AA is now pretty good, and affords the ground troops some much needed support against the air; however, somewhat ironically, mobile AA is not always present in some of the most air intensive maps?! An omission which in my opinion isn't justified.

    Solutions (within the realms of what a patch could achieve of course)?
    1. Remove static AA sites, or improve the range to match jet cannons.
    2. Add more mobile AA, and particularly to maps which surprisingly don't have any.

    Mature thoughts and opinions welcome.
  • $kelet0r

    #2
    Re: AA (mobile and static) in 1.21 - comments

    agreed that the mobile AA is awesome now but the static AA will always be an issue
    1.2 had them nicely balanced in terms of ability - their range made them a formiddable enemy - now they are really a weapon of last resort again
    match the lockon range of the jets or at least increase to visual range

    Comment

    • DrJambo
      Member
      • Oct 2006
      • 349

      #3
      Re: AA (mobile and static) in 1.21 - comments

      Yeah I just didn't understand the point of improving missiles but shortening their range, in effect handicapping them unnecessarily again...

      Comment

      • jdogg88-Fed

        #4
        Re: AA (mobile and static) in 1.21 - comments

        i liked em how they was

        Comment

        • 193d DCAT1

          #5
          Re: AA (mobile and static) in 1.21 - comments

          I agree completely with the OP.

          Another suggestion - "Radar" for the AA guns where all aircraft show up on the minimap so that the operator at least knows which way to look.

          Comment

          • colony

            #6
            Re: AA (mobile and static) in 1.21 - comments

            Originally posted by 193d DCAT
            I agree completely with the OP.

            Another suggestion - "Radar" for the AA guns where all aircraft show up on the minimap so that the operator at least knows which way to look.
            Then we should include all the neat radar tech and have active AA/SAM sites on the jet pilot HUD as well as beyond visual range missiles so i can hit you from across the map etc etc etc.

            Comment

            • vbl

              #7
              Re: AA (mobile and static) in 1.21 - comments

              Yea static AA blows.

              Mobile AA is a joy to use. I love trying to find secret places to post up and pick off aircraft.

              Comment

              • jakswan

                #8
                Re: AA (mobile and static) in 1.21 - comments

                I'm all for it, makes it more interesting. Mind I don't think you'll have much luck with it against very good pilots.

                If there is mobile AA about and their on a fighter it's bound to make them a little nervy.

                The other night I had this MIG on me which I could not shake but he couldn't get good tone, so I led him back to aircraft carrier. Five players there, and around and around we went. They should include a window in Jets so I can wind it down and shout 'Oi you bunch of grunts see that thing behind me, that's a baddie that is, now get the **** in there and shoot the hell out of it.' :p

                Comment

                • JTF2_darkloop

                  #9
                  Re: AA (mobile and static) in 1.21 - comments

                  ahmen FRICKEN AGREED
                  yeah i wouldve wrote that the same
                  EA should read this thread

                  Comment

                  • imported_K_Shizzle

                    #10
                    Re: AA (mobile and static) in 1.21 - comments

                    There were mobil anti-air in Gulf of Oman. In beta stage They took it out for some reason...

                    Comment

                    • Paas

                      #11
                      Re: AA (mobile and static) in 1.21 - comments

                      Originally posted by K_Shizzle
                      There were mobil anti-air in Gulf of Oman. In beta stage They took it out for some reason...
                      Because Flyboys would flip their lid if they had to worry about somthing on the ground actually taking them out.

                      ...I mean, cmon'. BF2 is all about Jets, Helos, Tank, and APCs after all. Grunts are just there to feed those specific vehicles points. Durr durr'?

                      {WP}Paas

                      P.S.- I do like the thread starters idea of adding Mobile A.A. to counter Jets. I say, add 1 Mobile Anti-Air vehicle for every Jet on the Map. Also, increase the Armor rating of Transport Helos by an outrageous amount, and remove their guns.

                      I don't know, let a blackhawk have the ability to take something like 12 missiles? Yet, let the only defense it has be the crew on board.

                      Comment

                      • PHPT

                        #12
                        Re: AA (mobile and static) in 1.21 - comments

                        Originally posted by {WP}Paas
                        P.S.- I do like the thread starters idea of adding Mobile A.A. to counter Jets. I say, add 1 Mobile Anti-Air vehicle for every Jet on the Map. Also, increase the Armor rating of Transport Helos by an outrageous amount, and remove their guns.
                        Agreed completely, but what I'd personally like to see more is buff static AA back to usefulness (since 1.21 jets can easily dodge missiles again, and the range is still nerfed hard, they're almost as worthless as 1.12 again). Give them 1.2's accuracy, increase the range, and drop the damage heavily.

                        I'd actually rather see jets getting hit by missiles repeatedly from multiple targets and living through it than either getting instakilled or being missed completely.

                        Comment

                        • DrJambo
                          Member
                          • Oct 2006
                          • 349

                          #13
                          Re: AA (mobile and static) in 1.21 - comments

                          Thanks for the postive response folks - keep it coming. Hopefully we can generate enough of a momentum to actually spur the rather topsyturvy developers (Demize99 are you reading?) into getting the relationship between static AA and jets right one of these days.

                          Comment

                          • Wreck0

                            #14
                            Re: AA (mobile and static) in 1.21 - comments

                            I can't believe they still allow other players to know when the static AA is manned. Take that out, or give the guy in the static AA a nice little radar readout that shows the position of all manned planes and choppers in the area. And for crying out loud bring the lock range back to normal.

                            Comment

                            • Harpoon84

                              #15
                              Re: AA (mobile and static) in 1.21 - comments

                              Nice post, and I agree with you, mobile AA is OK but static AA seriously needs a range boost, at least against jets.

                              The problem with a range boost is that it would make life a living hell for helicopter crew. The current range of ~250m is perfectly adequate for defence against helicopters but jets pass far too quick for it to be useful.

                              With static AA I find that the only chance you have of taking out a jet is if it's already deployed its flares prior to entering your lock zone.

                              I read a suggestion from another BF2 forum that said for every jet in the game, there should be a mobile AA, which I think is a good idea.

                              So that would mean for most maps 2 mobile AAs for each team.

                              Comment

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