Why the claymore mine is a good thing.

[Boogey_Down]

A lot of times I end up on a server where no one tries to defend a flag for not even five minutes. Everyone one just goes into this pointless, round robin flag capping mode. Its like they're thinking, "oh theres enemies at that flag, I'll go cap the other flag." It becomes idiotic after awhile. No one defends and we're just going around in circles capping flags. Especially if its a 64 player map with only like 20 people in the server.

So thats where the claymore comes into play. When I see this type of stuff going on. I start placing claymores at every flag that I know is empty and no one is defending. It puts an end to this capping in circles **** or at least slows it down and gives my team a chance to keep flags long enough to win the map.

I know it's cheap. Personally I think claymores suck. But this is the tacticts I resort to only when I'm playing with a bunch of newbs that do not defend flags for even a second :hmm:

[sarb]

Re: Why the claymore mine is a good thing.

ya, i do the same. like when i fight my way to cap a flag by myself cuz nobody responds to the "need backup" command...so once its capped, i might drop a claymore aroudn it before i leave.

[Sir. bzb]

Re: Why the claymore mine is a good thing.

Claymore is a fair weapon, i say use it.
I'll put mines down as engineer, so why avoid using the claymore. Claymore is as cheap kill to infantry as an at mine is to a tank, just theres more infantry to write complaints against it than there are tank whores to whine about AT mines.
I hate being killed by them but i have to respect someone that defends an asset with them, obvious use for them. Also, a great trap for a sniper to lay, attracting medics means stationary targets, whay fight the temptation.

[vbl]

Re: Why the claymore mine is a good thing.

People just don't like having to think while they play.

My comrade and I routinely spawn MEC on Sharqi and then take and hold the TV station. We place two claymores - one on the ladder, one in the lower lobby. People run into them all day long. When they do, we just replace them (I play Support, he players Sniper). For groups of 2+ I'm usually waiting in the stairwell and cut any survivors down.

Of course, they complain.

But none of them ever think to bring an Engineer to disarm the lobby claymore, which we always put in the same place (because we're lazy). They never cautiously approach - they just rush in.

They also never think to steal our helicopter and airdrop onto the roof, which is entirely unguarded. They never bring a legion of Medics to revive the claymored and then overwhelm me in the stairwell (which one rather smart clan finally figured out - although we recaptured the flag within a few minutes).

People just want to play how they want to play, and if anything disrupts that little world they get p1ssed.

[Arkasha]

Re: Why the claymore mine is a good thing.

I agree. On the few occasions I do use clays, I place them to defend assets like the UAV hut. Works like a charm, and it's really no different from the C4 the spec ops players like to use.

It's just automatic.

[Boogey_Down]

Re: Why the claymore mine is a good thing.

I agree. On the few occasions I do use clays, I place them to defend assets like the UAV hut. Works like a charm, and it's really no different from the C4 the spec ops players like to use.

It's just automatic.

Yep, I do the same with artilery :evil:

[PHPT]

Re: Why the claymore mine is a good thing.

Claymore is a fair weapon, i say use it.
I'll put mines down as engineer, so why avoid using the claymore. Claymore is as cheap kill to infantry as an at mine is to a tank, just theres more infantry to write complaints against it than there are tank whores to whine about AT mines.

Because there are many situations where you can't even cap a point with a vehicle, you have to get out on foot. There are far more infantry than there are vehicles. AT mines won't blow you up unless you run right over them, not if you're 10ft away and looking at it. There's not a single point you need a vehicle to cap.

Claymores are not AT mines.

But none of them ever think to bring an Engineer to disarm the lobby claymore, which we always put in the same place (because we're lazy). They never cautiously approach - they just rush in.

You can put a claymore facing the stairwell door and facing the top of the ladder. What's your engineer gonna do? In fact, I usually just put a claymore right in the corner at the top of the stairs. You can't disarm that, because THERE IS NO WAY AROUND IT!

They never bring a legion of Medics to revive the claymored and then overwhelm me in the stairwell (which one rather smart clan finally figured out - although we recaptured the flag within a few minutes).

Requiring a "legion of medics" for anything is not balanced. Seriously. I could have a shoulder-launched nuke and people would say "durrrrr it's balanced, just make sure your medic's hiding behind a building when it goes off!"

With medics, claymore spam in something like the Sharqi stairwell produces a (very audible) logjam that's hand grenade bait. Or more commonly these days, bait for a sniper that dumps a new claymore out facing the corpse. If medics were really the solution, you could storm practically any point with a ton of them and have no chance of losing.

[ACE4U]

Re: Why the claymore mine is a good thing.

A lot of times I end up on a server where no one tries to defend a flag for not even five minutes. Everyone one just goes into this pointless, round robin flag capping mode. Its like they're thinking, "oh theres enemies at that flag, I'll go cap the other flag." It becomes idiotic after awhile. No one defends and we're just going around in circles capping flags. Especially if its a 64 player map with only like 20 people in the server.

So thats where the claymore comes into play. When I see this type of stuff going on. I start placing claymores at every flag that I know is empty and no one is defending. It puts an end to this capping in circles **** or at least slows it down and gives my team a chance to keep flags long enough to win the map.

I know it's cheap. Personally I think claymores suck. But this is the tacticts I resort to only when I'm playing with a bunch of newbs that do not defend flags for even a second :hmm:

Awesome. I do the same thing as a sniper. I get easy kills and defend flag pts. Look me up some time. As a sniper, I enjoy defending a flag from over 100 yrds away. I had a partner snip away someone at 300 yards a couple of days ago, now I now what those 6 and 8 is for .

[Kannon]

Re: Why the claymore mine is a good thing.

I find calymores o be generally misused when they are deployed. 2 snipers were capping the train accident. One deployed 2 to protect himself. When i drive up in a vodnik, they blow both up to take out one sniper and i mg'd the other.

Really, a good tactic is to send one guy at a time and all you need is one medic to revive him. Sure, it'll give the sniper kills, but you'll still have tickets and you'll still have the position.

[vbl]

Re: Why the claymore mine is a good thing.

Because there are many situations where you can't even cap a point with a vehicle, you have to get out on foot.

This is complete bullsh1t. 90% of the flags in this game are capturable by vehicle.

At this point I think you're just being contentious because it gives you a sense of purpose.

You can put a claymore facing the stairwell door and facing the top of the ladder. What's your engineer gonna do? In fact, I usually just put a claymore right in the corner at the top of the stairs. You can't disarm that, because THERE IS NO WAY AROUND IT!

Requiring a "legion of medics" for anything is not balanced.

Obviously you're well-versed in hyperbole. One Medic will suffice. Just let the point man run into the claymore, revive, and go.

The TV station represents one of only a handful of flags across all BF2 maps where claymores can be used to button it up so readily, and still there are workarounds.

[{USI}_DirTyDeeDs]

Re: Why the claymore mine is a good thing.

I agree with variable...this time :evil:

[CaptJordus]

Re: Why the claymore mine is a good thing.

This is complete bullsh1t. 90% of the flags in this game are capturable by vehicle.

At this point I think you're just being contentious because it gives you a sense of purpose.



Obviously you're well-versed in hyperbole. One Medic will suffice. Just let the point man run into the claymore, revive, and go.

The TV station represents one of only a handful of flags across all BF2 maps where claymores can be used to button it up so readily, and still there are workarounds.

Your speaking to much of clan type battles.

In pubs, there are little to no engineers, medics arent always readily available (and the ones that are, seem to be more rambo than assault), the *** whores in the choppers arent going to take 10 seconds out of their Mi28 cannon whoring to drop someone on the roof (much less will the gunner give up his seat for ANYthing).

And there is no other way around a claymore if its in certain areas. They need to be set so they can be blown up by explosives or guns, because as it is now you can make barriers in tons of places around maps and have it basically blocked off until someone commits suicide by running into them.

[PHPT]

Re: Why the claymore mine is a good thing.

This is complete bullsh1t. 90% of the flags in this game are capturable by vehicle.

Yet several key ones aren't. The Sharqi TV station, probably the most important point on the map, isn't cappable with any vehicle except the helicopter. Same with the Construction Site. The Hotel and Square on Karkand and the Power Plant on Mashtuur can only be captured by moving directly up next to the wall. That northwestern point I forget the name of on Dragon Valley isn't capturable by vehicle. Some points, because of ambush potential, are much more difficult to capture with a vehicle. Many are capturable by vehicle, but are unmaneuverable and have limited access to the flag, like most of Songhua. SF has a TON of points not capturable by vehicle, most of which are main bases.

At this point I think you're just being contentious because it gives you a sense of purpose.

At this point you're resorting to name-calling and fake psychoanalysis because...?

Sending the point-man to die immediately alerts anyone to your presence, sets you back a bit because of the revive time, and being forced to suffer mandatory losses is ridiculous anyway. Saying "bring a medic" is effectively saying "deaths don't matter, we've got a medic, we're invincible."

The TV station represents one of only a handful of flags across all BF2 maps where claymores can be used to button it up so readily, and still there are workarounds.

The TV station is severe enough that it's completely changed the way the map's played. The hotel on Karkand is another spot that's hard to get unturtled. Go play some SF too and you'll really see how claymores have livened up the game. *cough*

[vbl]

Re: Why the claymore mine is a good thing.

Yet several key ones aren't. The Sharqi TV station, probably the most important point on the map, isn't cappable with any vehicle except the helicopter. The Hotel and Square on Karkand can only be captured by moving directly up next to the wall. Some points, because of ambush potential, are much more difficult to capture with a vehicle. SF has a TON of points not capturable by vehicle, most of which are main bases.

Yes, the TV station is one key point among many points among many maps. The Karkand hotel and Square are both capturable by vehicle. Nevermind that both of those Karkand flags are relatively pointless. Suburbs and Gatehouse are infinitely more important.

I don't play SF so I can't comment on it.

Sending the point-man to die immediately alerts anyone to your presence, sets you back a bit because of the revive time, and being forced to suffer mandatory losses is ridiculous anyway. Saying "bring a medic" is effectively saying "deaths don't matter, we've got a medic, we're invincible."

Deaths don't matter if there's a Medic reviving you - that's one of the basic scoring mechanisms in the game.

The TV station is severe enough that it's completely changed the way the map's played.

So what? When things change, things change. People need to devise new strategies (3 of which I gave to them in this thread) to overcome new threats. Or, hey - don't lose the TV station in the first place.

The hotel on Karkand is another spot that's hard to get unturtled.

The Hotel is incredibly easy to crack. I know because people do it to us all the time. Artillery, grenades, LAV fire, the ledge overlooking the flags and snipers on top of the Square building are all avenues for killing defenders and making it very hard to keep claymores up for more than one wave, if they last even that long.

Here's the bottom line:

1. Claymores killing (or being detonated by) teammates is not a reasonable way to balance claymores. It's patently ridiculous to make the lifespan and effectiveness of any item reliant on the intelligence and discretion of the rest of the team. No other item functions like that (except landmines, but that's a given).
2. Claymores being destroyable by other explosions is not a reasonable way to balance claymores. It's also ridiculous that my claymores can be destroyed in a second by artillery, bombs, the Mi-28's cannon, nearby grenades, or any other explosive projectile. These incidental explosions used to set off claymores through walls, around corners, and in other completely silly ways. I don't expect changes to the basic collision engine, so we're stuck with this limitation.

If folks still wholeheartedly believe that claymores are overpowered and out of control (even after the 2 claymore limit), please try suggesting some other ways of balancing claymores that aren't #1 and #2. Making something 95% useless is not a valid way of balancing it.

Here's an idea to get you started:
Claymores do not detonate if the enemy approaches it while prone and crawling. Discuss.

I'd also like some hardcore BFV players to chime in regarding Bouncing Betties. They were place-and-forget anti-personnel mines in BFV, but I don't remember anyone whining about them. Did they not get used? If not, why? If so, were folks just more careful?

[Boogey_Down]

Re: Why the claymore mine is a good thing.

Claymores do not detonate if the enemy approaches it while prone and crawling. Discuss.

Sweet!! I did'nt know that. So that is how an engineer can defuse one, you crawl up to it then wrench away

See, something constructive did come out this thread :) I learned something new.