Boost Medic IQ, Delay Revive Points

[WarGimp]

Re: Boost Medic IQ, Delay Revive Points

I just worry that your idea, if implemented, would seriously discourage a lot of the same risk-taking. Personally, I'd rather be revived and risk dying again shortly after than look at all the Medics on my Mini-Map too scared or too 'smart' to bother coming to help. Hell, I hardly ever get revived in this game as it is ...

Well, part of the reasoning behind this thought is that taking those risks is often detremental to your team. Breaking cover and rushing out to revive someone who's still under threat most often results in a dead medic as well as a dead teamate. Your team loses 2 tickets instead of 1.

There's good risks and bad risks. This code tweak would reward you for taking good ones, while not handing out points for poor ones.

[IntensivCareBear]

Re: Boost Medic IQ, Delay Revive Points

no, this would make even fewer people get revived.

perhaps you might want to look into real war for the truth. marine corpsmen ALWAYS run to wounded, regardless of the danger and the fact that they cannot magically heal them for points as in BF2.

really wargimp, this had no chance of being implemented, seeing as the current medic status makes the game more balanced rather than less.

over complicated, with a huge chance of ruining the game, and no benefit if it doesnt.


when i play medic, i NEVER get killed by rushing out to revive.

if the enemy tank/ team isnt stupid, they realize that i can revive the same dude/ dudes all day, while they stock up on easy kills.

stop trying to take every damn fun thing out of BF2 already heh.

i went into the "death zone" of karkand (if you dont know what it is you have no business being here, go play until you do) and revived 5 people, hearing them get plastered a second after i revived, then ran out of there unscathed.

just as i do, the enemy aims for the recently revived rather than the medic, knowing that the recently revived is stuck prone, and likely to not be aware, while the medic is possible even more points.

[Rez_K'awil]

Re: Boost Medic IQ, Delay Revive Points

It really bugs me when people get angry at medics simply because reviving gives them more points. I personally love it when another medic runs up to me and gets me going again after I've been hit.

However, I can understand your frustration with stupid medics reviving you in the line of fire. But lets be honest here. It's saving your team a ticket, and you some aggrivation if you're able to get out of the line of fire. If not, oh well - you gotta wait an extra 10 seconds to respawn. But seriously - there are stupid players for every class, so let's not shape all medics into the "revives everyone right in the middle of fire" category. It's the stupid people that should be dealt with, not the medics as a class.

[WarGimp]

Re: Boost Medic IQ, Delay Revive Points

no, this would make even fewer people get revived.

perhaps you might want to look into real war for the truth. marine corpsmen ALWAYS run to wounded, regardless of the danger and the fact that they cannot magically heal them for points as in BF2.

really wargimp, this had no chance of being implemented, seeing as the current medic status makes the game more balanced rather than less.

over complicated, with a huge chance of ruining the game, and no benefit if it doesnt.

really, at what point will it be on this forum that you cant shoot someone with a gun, its too easy! you already cant use a pkm, tank, hand grenades, or just about any gun anyway.

Ah, dude... if you really wanna talk about other issues, there's plenty of threads for 'em.

I expressed specificly that I do not expect this idea to be implemented. It's posted here just for intelectual debate.

If you don't wish to partake in that debate, there's no point in you posting in this thread, is there?

As for it being overly complicated, this is why I wrote out the psudo code. It's actually very simple to implement. It's even more simple to understand.

I also don't believe it would lead to fewer revives. It would cut down on stupid revives, but likely to cause medics to go looking for smart ones more often.

[MouseNo4]

Re: Boost Medic IQ, Delay Revive Points

Before I get into this oddball thought, I want to say that this isn't something I feel Dice needs to (or even should) implement. It's a thought that occured to me and I thought I'd bounce it off you folks.

This actually popped into my head while thinking about my very first purist armour whorage round. I'd figured out that inor etc. etc.

I reckon that is a great idea. It would rebalance the enourmous amount of points medics can garnish by simply going on a revive spree. My only quam is that you shouldnt disadvantage the people with 3 revives in a row. Have the points for each one be allocated if each one lives more than 5 seconds each. So if person 1 survives 5 seconds, medic gets a point. 3 seconds later the second one survives 5 seconds, then the last one at 2 seconds after that survives a full 5 seconds, then the medic gets the credit for all three IF all three survive 5 seconds. If number 2 doesnt survive but 1 and 3 do, then the medic only gets credit for 1 and 3 not 2. Or even maybe get 2 points for a revive and the person lives for 5 seconds and only 1 point if they live for less than 5 seconds.

[imported_John-Paul]

Re: Boost Medic IQ, Delay Revive Points

Well, part of the reasoning behind this thought is that taking those risks is often detremental to your team. Breaking cover and rushing out to revive someone who's still under threat most often results in a dead medic as well as a dead teamate. Your team loses 2 tickets instead of 1.

True ... but if the risk pays off, your team loses 0 tickets instead of 1 ... and, hey, if it's an Anti-Tank / Engineer or Special Forces player who was revived thanks to the recklessness / courage of the Medic, he might go on to destroy a tank that would have otherwise cost the team an untold penalty in tickets. What if he were never revived? A medic often needs the incentive to take big risks.

There are other gameplay dynamics affected, too, I suppose. For example, even if you lose both tickets, you might be preoccupying the attention of a tank driver just long enough for a teammate equipped with C4 to sneak up on him while he's looking for his easy kills. (I wonder how often that actually happens.)

I guess the only way to really know how the idea might affect gameplay and the IQ of Medics would be to implement it and observe the results over a long period of time.

Who knows, though? If implemented, it might just replace one kind of frustration with another. Instead of people coming to these boards and complaining of times they've been revived whilst in serious danger, we might find ourselves inundated with threads from people complaining that Medics are all spineless now and unwilling to take any risks.

[WarGimp]

Re: Boost Medic IQ, Delay Revive Points

Hehe, well that's the way communities work isn't it? You make any kind of tweak and someone will be cheesed off. :p

Another little point here tho.
If you were to make a risky revive and got away with it, you'd be rewarded you revive points. As long as they guy you revived can live for 10 seconds, it's all shiney. The delay is basicly teaching the engine how to make a distinction between a good risk and a bad one. Even your target was to get killed again within those 10 seconds, you wouldn't be punished... you just wouldn't be rewarded.

Infact, the way I laid out my psudo code, if he get's killed again within those 10 seconds, you can still go back and revive him again to get your points. If you get killed in the process, but he lives, you'd get your points while you're still looking at your respawn screen.

The only time you wouldn't get points is if the revived gunt dies again or if you revive more than one person within 10 seconds. That second part could be edited out, however. I only added it as a way of knocking down the popular knife/revive exploit.

Edit: Oh lord... I used the word "Shiney" in casual dicussion... Too much FireFly watching going on here!

[PHPT]

Re: Boost Medic IQ, Delay Revive Points

Make them smarter about when to revive? Is having to wait for a recharge after you've chucked a couple medpacks or revived more than 2 or 3 people not enough?

Just a hint, a "bad" revive more than often results in a dead medic, so what exactly is the point of demanding a nerf to their point rate over something that gets them DEAD? Last I checked, being dead was bad for your score.

[WarGimp]

Re: Boost Medic IQ, Delay Revive Points

Make them smarter about when to revive? Is having to wait for a recharge after you've chucked a couple medpacks or revived more than 2 or 3 people not enough?

Just a hint, a "bad" revive more than often results in a dead medic, so what exactly is the point of demanding a nerf to their point rate over something that gets them DEAD? Last I checked, being dead was bad for your score.

Er... being dead doesn't decrease your score or deter (insert word less harsh than "brainless" here) medics.

The idea is to reward people for doing their role effectively. Dishing out an extra 2 kills and doubling ticket loss for the event is not effective medicorization (<-- cool word, eh? Just made it up :p ).

Basicly, medic is the only class that can get points for actions that directly hurt their team. I don't see a problem with the mechanics enforcing a dynamic that rewards smart play while not punishing for being a suicidal zap-freak points farmer.

If you need a demonstration of this, go ingame and shoot someone. Wait for the medic to show up. Grenade 'em both. He was dumb for not checking for threats (you), but he still got points for it.

Doesn't that strike you as being a bit on the silly side?

[PHPT]

Re: Boost Medic IQ, Delay Revive Points

Er... being dead doesn't decrease your score

No, but it's pretty damn hard to increase your points while you're dead too. Unless you've got claymores.

Basicly, medic is the only class that can get points for actions that directly hurt their team.

Reviving someone in the line of fire doesn't hurt your team, it either recovers a ticket or provides a distraction. No, you probably don't like being used as bait, but my general approach is "would you rather be dead?" As long as I'm reviving you, our team score isn't moving, regardless of how many times you die.

If you need a demonstration of this, go ingame and shoot someone. Wait for the medic to show up. Grenade 'em both. He was dumb for not checking for threats (you), but he still got points for it.

He gets half a kill worth of points, and gets knocked out of the action for the next minute or so. So what?

Giving medics an incentive to be aggressive about revives encourages them to do their job more than it encourages them to do it sloppily. Aggressive revives usually leave the assailant with not enough ammo left in the clip to kill both the medic and the person they just revived. Reviving people in the line of fire can help them get out of it, and you can only do that so many times before you're stuck recharging.


EDIT -- I'm not saying a 10-second delay is a bad idea, but I'm at a loss to see exactly what problem this is supposed to solve. If it affected the number of aggressive medics, I'd actually consider that a bad thing.

[MouseNo4]

Re: Boost Medic IQ, Delay Revive Points

Why is it medics and their revive ability is the most talked about feature of bf2?

[WarGimp]

Re: Boost Medic IQ, Delay Revive Points

No, but it's pretty damn hard to increase your points while you're dead too. Unless you've got claymores.

We're not really talking about skilled poeple here. The best medics that I play with will stand off from a fallen grunt knowing full well that the enemy is likely still out there. They either deal with the threat, or make sure it's gone before moving in for a revive.

What we're talking about here is suicidal medics that will make a dash for any corpse and zap away at it until they come back, or they both die. Those folks aren't likely to be earning any points within the 15 seconds it take for them to respawn.

Reviving someone in the line of fire doesn't hurt your team, it either recovers a ticket or provides a distraction. No, you probably don't like being used as bait, but my general approach is "would you rather be dead?" As long as I'm reviving you, our team score isn't moving, regardless of how many times you die.

It does hurt if you get your arse shot off in the process. You just effectivly doubled the effect the enemy would have had if you weren't around to attempt a revive. Note that this "nerf" would only effect failed attempts to revive someone. If you get away with it, kudos. You just earn those points.

He gets half a kill worth of points, and gets knocked out of the action for the next minute or so. So what?

Actually, he get's the same amount of points that he would have gotten for a kill.

Giving medics an incentive to be aggressive about revives encourages them to do their job more than it encourages them to do it sloppily. Aggressive revives usually leave the assailant with not enough ammo left in the clip to kill both the medic and the person they just revived. Reviving people in the line of fire can help them get out of it, and you can only do that so many times before you're stuck recharging.

Again, if you manage a revive underfire and get away with it, good job. You'd get your points to reward you under the system I outlined. However, you can't honestly tell me there aren't hoards of brainless medics out there that do their jobs poorly simply because they get their revive points regaurdless of either they or their revived teammate live. I've seen the behaviour all over the place and if you're honest about it, you have too.

EDIT -- I'm not saying a 10-second delay is a bad idea, but I'm at a loss to see exactly what problem this is supposed to solve. If it affected the number of aggressive medics, I'd actually consider that a bad thing.

It would simply make the revive award more meaningful because in order to get it, you have to actually do your job. A medic's job isn't to zap corpses whenever they hit the dirt, it's to make sure that damage done to the team is mitigated. Rushing blindly into fire to zap someone is the opposite of this. Rather than helping the team, they are giving the enemy a chance to do more damage.

[goaliemike]

Re: Boost Medic IQ, Delay Revive Points

Fix the paddles i hate them now... I do have to re-install cuz 1.21 didnt work with me. So im not shure if there fixed now but thats one thing i didnt like.

[PHPT]

Re: Boost Medic IQ, Delay Revive Points

Actually, he get's the same amount of points that he would have gotten for a kill.

Last I checked, a kill gives you two points, a revive (like all other teamwork actions) only gives you one.

A medic's job isn't to zap corpses whenever they hit the dirt, it's to make sure that damage done to the team is mitigated. Rushing blindly into fire to zap someone is the opposite of this. Rather than helping the team, they are giving the enemy a chance to do more damage.

That's arguable, from my experiences the kamikazi medics succeed more often than they fail, especially when it's a squad loaded with them. The only time it really doesn't work is against vehicles, because they don't have to reload and can hit stationary targets (like freshly-revived troops) with no problem.

The thing is though, I don't think medics are earning points too quickly (it's about the same as any of the combat-heavy kits, or armor whores, from what I've seen), especially after the recharge nerf, and delayed revives wouldn't smarten up medics, it would just give them fewer points. With DICE's way of updating things, I'd say if it ain't broke, don't fix it. :P

[redrider]

Re: Boost Medic IQ, Delay Revive Points

That Idea sounds good to me, I usually score a few extra points a round waiting for the medic to finish the revive so I can kill them both. When there is a group of enemy soldiers I always shoot the medic first. The reason being that when you kill all but the medic the medic revives them and I usually get killed during reloading. So in a group of 3 or 4 soldiers, I will shoot the medic first then the support guy and, if Im not dead yet, whoever is left.

Maybe a different way to approach the problem is to allow you to select wheather you want to be revived or not (maybe by putting a X on the hart symbol). I have been revived 2 times in a row in front of a tank (killed by tank, then revived, Medic and I killed by tank, revived by second medic, then killed by tank again). I thought this was dumb, because I lost about 40 seconds playing time, and I could see that it wouldnt work.
I dont know how the code would work but it would end all the problems and not cut into the medics ability to score points. While Im at it, this Idea isnt better than the first one. Its just another one, as I believe this is only a discussion and probably not (I hope not, every change makes more bugs) going to become a reality.
This is one of the more interesting threads. A lot better than the usual "Flaming Noob" party that we get midweek. . . . . . . . . .Red