The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

[Scotty]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

If you take the airfield, you don't even need the hawk since you have all the airpower at that point. There is no reason to have the floating fortress flying around mowing everyone down.

The hawk needs better armor and that's it. It shouldn't even make its way into this conversation. The US can get in the air more quickly on Wake and if the jets can take down the J-10s ... the US has a chance. When they can't touch the J-10s, then there are problems. The Hawk should be used simply to get the troops across the water without getting blown out of the sky.

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

As it stands, the USMC has the best Air to Air Helo.

PLA/MEC have better Air to Ground Helos.

So. In order to balance this Dice/EA gave both the PLA and MEC better fighter aircraft. So, in a sense AirPower is overall balanced. Changing any single aspect of that balance in terms of Jets modifies the overall balance in terms of each teams Armory.

The Cobra would be uncontested in most situations, constantly outflying the MEC/PLA, and the J-10 wouldn't be there to lend a hand because it would be constantly bust with it's clones.

That's the primary reason I belevie Dice/EA won't implement the changes you have stated.

{WP}Paas

Good post.

This is the kind of posts I'm looking for.

My response. This is 1.21, not v1.0. While the Cobra may be more maneuverable this patch that doesn't necessarily make it better in air to air combat, the MEC helicopter kills the the US helicopter in about 5 shots of its massive explosive cannon.

Even if the Cobra is better in head on helicopter to helicopter combat (and for the sake of debate I'll agree and say it is), it still has the disadvantage of being far inferior at destroying ground targets. Thus, it is a trade off. The J-10 has no such trade off.

If anything, the MEC helicopter is the best in the game as of 1.21. Especially since helicopters do not require other helicopters to keep them in check, as all forms of AA do a terrific job at destroying helicopters. Hell, even a FAV mounted gun can destroy a helicopter in less than a single overheat.

Bottom line, the balance between helicopters and planes is no longer interconnected in 1.21 with more powerful S2A missiles and lowered helicopter armor. Even if it was in v1.0, it most certainly no longer is. Rather, my suggestion IMO would help helicopter balance on China maps because no longer would the J-10 be dominating the other planes and then going to further overwhelm the now underpowered helicopter.

In my system, planes fight for air superiority. The best pilot wins, purely by raw skill alone and as a result he provides his teams helicopters with an additional layer of security regardless of what team they are on.

[Blades]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

Wow, I fly F35B ALL the time because the J10 is so unstable that I don't like it too much. I have almost busted my joystick in half trying to avoid missles (didnt even dodge them). This improvement is a good idea. I like Chris's idea, sounds good. Just now I have to worry about busting my throttle.

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

This was the only technique that used to allow USMC to beat china on wake it doesnt work anmore as the hawk guns arent worth sh1t

Oh, heh. I thought you were referring to the F-35B rush method, which still does work. You've just got to be extra lucky and get the first F-35B to spawn otherwise you're pretty much screwed for the rest of the round. When Blackhawks had more armor of course that also helped a great deal as they could actually make it to the runway alive. Good point.

[imported_Calibre]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

Agreed..

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

The way I see it, with perfectly balanced airplanes Wake 2007 would go like this. Both the J-10 and F-35B would get in to the air.

J-10 would have to attack F-35B to eliminate the threat and get to the helicopters/boats, or vice versa. Either way, the J-10 would then be distracted by the air-to-air combat and unable to effectively attack the boats. However potentially the J-10 pilot could still attack the boats *if* he is a better pilot and manages to either shake the F-35B or engage it and blast them out of the sky.

The most important point in all of this is the J-10 could no longer ignore the F-35B, and the F-35B would no longer fear getting in an engagement with the J-10 if it was necessary. I'm speaking purely from piloting instincts here and this is the way I'd see it on either side. In any event, it'd make those maps a HELL of a lot more balanced. I actually think the difference on Wake 2007 (and other China maps) would be amazing and it'd change the entire dynamic of the map for the better.

Everyone wins, except the players who rely on the J-10 for easy kills and an unfair advantage against all other pilots.

[Hu.Z_of_PLA]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

the thing about the current air combat situation, is that F35B is much faster and can manuver in advantageous position much faster if J10 choose to attack boat/carrier (I am talking about the high level position behind J10)

[TheGhost]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

I didn't want to get involved in this, yet, I will.

Planewhore. If you were to have the Jets "mimic" one another in almost all qualities, the balance for the Helo's would be thrown off.

As it stands, the USMC has the best Air to Air Helo.

PLA/MEC have better Air to Ground Helos.

So. In order to balance this Dice/EA gave both the PLA and MEC better fighter aircraft. So, in a sense AirPower is overall balanced. Changing any single aspect of that balance in terms of Jets modifies the overall balance in terms of each teams Armory.

The Cobra would be uncontested in most situations, constantly outflying the MEC/PLA, and the J-10 wouldn't be there to lend a hand because it would be constantly busy with its clones.

That's the primary reason I belevie Dice/EA won't implement the changes you have stated.

{WP}Paas

Here's the thing though, I would call the differences between the helos (and any discussion of which one is best) a matter of opinion and personal preference. I've flown gunner in the MEC and PLA attack helos with some good pilots and the Cobra never stood a chance.

I guess maybe if you are one of those tools who tries to go Rambo stlye in the attack helo and go after everything with rockets, then yes maybe one could be more superior than the other. But if you are playing intelligently and making use of your gunner, sneaking into position so he can TV the other chopper, than there is really no issue of which is better.

Contrast that with the J-10, after the 1.21 patch the J-10 can dodge 90% or more of the air to air missles shot at it. This is something that no other plane can do. I have yet to see a missle not hit an F-18 or F-35 when fired with a solid lock from their six (unless of course they had flares). This is in no way a matter of preference or personal opinion, it is a cold hard fact.

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

the thing about the current air combat situation, is that F35B is much faster and can manuver in advantageous position much faster if J10 choose to attack boat/carrier (I am talking about the high level position behind J10)

The speed difference between the J-10 and the F-35B is negligible, and does absolutely nothing for the F-35B when the J-10 finally spots him. Even the worst pilots know flying in a straight line is an assured death.

[p4tri0t]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

lol i hate being the one that will tell you but... dice wont do a thing about it.. why?? remember the BOSS that said that the choppers should have 8 rockets?? and they did that becouse he LIVES for the game (like hes the only one).. well hes a j-10 whore and nobody dares to change the j10
challange my will and thaw shall be fired and my wrath shall decend upon thay

[LoKi.]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

old formula of BF2

China = Best jets
USMC = Best Heli's
MEC = Best Inf weapons

New Forumla of BF2

China = Ownz all
USMC= Suxors
MEC= Pwns USMC

I would like to see how balanced the game becomes if it were mec vs pla but that will never happen

[TheGhost]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

the thing about the current air combat situation, is that F35B is much faster and can manuver in advantageous position much faster if J10 choose to attack boat/carrier (I am talking about the high level position behind J10)

Great in theory, try actually doing it. Even if you get behind him once you switch to missles and the J-10 hears "beep beep beep" he just banks hard and is invulnerable. You might be able to inflict some damage if you can sneak up and cannon him, but as soon as you start hitting him he will bug out and that will be the last you see of him... at least until he's on your six and you get a missle up your butt.

"30 seconds. We went like this, he went like that, I said to Hollywood "Where'd he go?"; Hollywood said "Where'd who gooooooo..."

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

And why metallicaguitrst felt the need to make another thread about the exact same topic at the top of the forum is beyond me.

[Donkey]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

If that WAS the suggestion Donkey, then how would it be any different than APC/tank/transport are now currently in the game?

However it is NOT the suggestion, read the original post completely from top to bottom before spitting out such a silly comment SuperDonkey. The planes will not all be the same.

Um no he wanted them equal pretty sure from what I read and that my friend is exactly what I was getting at...Im sick of everything being the same with a diff skin...

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

old formula of BF2

China = Best jets
USMC = Best Heli's
MEC = Best Inf weapons

New Forumla of BF2

China = Ownz all
USMC= Suxors
MEC= Pwns USMC

I would like to see how balanced the game becomes if it were mec vs pla but that will never happen

LOL. Thats a good one.

Anyway, PW. Im going to throw that argument of yours aside, the one saying that DICE wont implement the advices. No disrespect. Im saying it because 1) Were here talking in "what IF?" mode, all the time. 2) Its not too hard to change a few numbers, althought Im a failure when it comes to advanced PC ****, I think it wouldnt be too hard. Extensive betatesting from DICEs part (Are all laughing here?) should balance it ultimately out.

So I came with a new set. As you said, or hinted, LOOP is fundamental maneuvering part. So lets equalize only LOOP speed?

F35B
Roll- 3/2
Loop- 7/6
Speed- 1100/1410 (prior 1020/1400)
AB-10 seconds
Reaction time (joystick movement to plane movement)- 0 seconds

J-10
Roll- 4/3
Loop- 7/6
Speed- 1000/1320
AB- 12
Reaction speed- 0 seconds

MiG-29
Roll- 4/3
Loop- 7/6
Speed- 910/1060
AB- 13
Reaction time- 0 seconds

F-18
Roll- 4/3
Loop- 7/6
Speed- 960/1120 (prior 960/1140)
AB- 13
Reaction time- 0 seconds

What would THIS achieve. J-10 on par with other planes with characteristical differences (speed). J-10 is something like MiG-29 vs F-35B now, with a boosted speed to make up for the competition. It also has extra AB timer to cope with F-35Bs superior speed (like MiGs). Since its slower (Think MiG vs F35B situation and why MiG is succssful= speed difference only), youre basically flying a MiG-29 faster clone. But just as much faster as needed. Meaning, J-10 will have MiGs advantage of distance, so it can lock better with missiles. And in the same time, F-35B while on chance, boosts past J-10 in turns, JUST as with MiG vs F35B scenario. Now. If we add better throttle control here, and create throtte control individual characteristics. Lets say, J-35B slows down faster due to its size, while MiG and J-10 keep the momentum, we have different planes BUT we dont have a plane in the "god mode" because it is VASTLY superior in the most important maneuverability part.

I also believe that F-35B and F-18 should have 600 bullets only on those maps where they arent accompanied with bombers. Because its that extra 300 bullets that make them better ATS planes. Take away that ****, if we make them all more balanced in dogfighting.