The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

[Princess_Frosty]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

Subtle balances would be asking for each plane to be different yet still balanced. Anyone with common sense gave up on the idea of DICE actually pulling that off a long time ago. We are asking for each plane to get the same flight model. That's anything but subtle. It's the cheap and easy way out, but realistically it would seem it's the only thing DICE would actually be capable of, and at this point we are willing to take it.

Same answer. It doesn't need to be any more focused on flying than it is now. Just give each plane the same flight model, and bam, instant balance.

Completely wrong. This is a huge issue. It's actually less of an issue for a very skilled pilot, because if they have a huge skill gap over the enemy pilot they can still beat them regardless of plane. However, if you have pilots of equal skill the J-10 wins. If you have a pilot that is "above average" in an American jet and someone who is "average" or even "below average" in the J-10, the J-10 will allow the lesser pilot to win much more often than they deserve. This is not balanced.

This wasn't directed at you, but I expected this kind of response anyhow so I will grace it with an answer.

Simple fact is that most of the players in planes are only casual players, theres only 1-2 really decent pilots such as planewhore. The subtle differences in the way the planes handle are only even noticeable by players who spend their whole lives flying planes.

The differences are over exadurated with players like planewhore because they can repeatedly abuse slight advantages again and again for the whole round, lets face it he'd be getting a pretty massive score in a totaly balanced situation anyhow, this is a massive score + a fraction more.

Every few weeks I seem to see another thread somewhere or other that is basically PlaneWhore complaining that X Y and Z isn't exactly to his liking, and that A B and C will fix it. I even remember him complaining about over powered AA and about how pilots skill no longer matters, yet here he is posting about how much you can own in one particular plane.

If you want these kind of balances put into BF2 you're barking up the wrong tree, the balances have to work in the grand scale of things not just plane to plane. The game isn't primarily a fight simulator, if people like PlaneWhore want a truly balance game then I suggest they go and play a game SPECIFICALY DESIGNED to offer a balance flying experience such as a proper flight simulator.

Planewhore is playing one tiny facet of a much grander game, and expects that one tiny facet to be fine tuned to his needs so it provides a better subgame for him, what he should be doing is playing a game which is specifically designed for it in the first place.

And here's the inside scoop everyone, the reason he doesn't simply give up and play a flight simulator is because he knows when he steps up to ACTUAL pro's he'll get his ass kicked so hard he wont be able to sit down for a week, and for people so egocentric as PlaneWhore, that simply won't do.

[TheGhost]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

This wasn't directed at you, but I expected this kind of response anyhow so I will grace it with an answer.

Simple fact is that most of the players in planes are only casual players, theres only 1-2 really decent pilots such as planewhore. The subtle differences in the way the planes handle are only even noticeable by players who spend their whole lives flying planes.

The differences are over exadurated with players like planewhore because they can repeatedly abuse slight advantages again and again for the whole round, lets face it he'd be getting a pretty massive score in a totaly balanced situation anyhow, this is a massive score + a fraction more.

Every few weeks I seem to see another thread somewhere or other that is basically PlaneWhore complaining that X Y and Z isn't exactly to his liking, and that A B and C will fix it. I even remember him complaining about over powered AA and about how pilots skill no longer matters, yet here he is posting about how much you can own in one particular plane.

If you want these kind of balances put into BF2 you're barking up the wrong tree, the balances have to work in the grand scale of things not just plane to plane. The game isn't primarily a fight simulator, if people like PlaneWhore want a truly balance game then I suggest they go and play a game SPECIFICALY DESIGNED to offer a balance flying experience such as a proper flight simulator.

Planewhore is playing one tiny facet of a much grander game, and expects that one tiny facet to be fine tuned to his needs so it provides a better subgame for him, what he should be doing is playing a game which is specifically designed for it in the first place.

And here's the inside scoop everyone, the reason he doesn't simply give up and play a flight simulator is because he knows when he steps up to ACTUAL pro's he'll get his ass kicked so hard he wont be able to sit down for a week, and for people so egocentric as PlaneWhore, that simply won't do.

Come on man, you seem intelligent, try using some reading comprehension. These aren't "subtle differences", J-10's can dodge 9 of 10 air to air missles simply by banking hard, other planes can dodge 0 of 10. That's far from subtle, it's game breaking. And again, this has nothing to do with "subtle balancing". Just give all the damn planes the same handling. If you can't understand that then I reserve the right to retract my statement regarding your intelligence.

Let me put it to you this way, would it be fair if one of the countries tanks had twice as much armor as the rest?

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

Princess, it's odd you claim I'm only playing "one tiny facet of a much grander game", when I have more time on my infantry account, then my piloting account (and if you watched my PKM video, you'd understand it to be the truth as you don't get an aim like mine doing nothing but flying planes).

Here's the real inside scoop for you Princess. I've never been beaten in a dogfight, and I personally have never encountered another pilot as skilled as me in an airplane, not to say this person doesn't exist but rather I've never encountered. I have the best statistics in the game to back it up, and I have a good chunk of time logged in aircraft. All of these factors merge to create my WELL INFORMED opinion that the J-10 is a horrible imbalance.

You're commenting on aircraft balance and who are you Princess? You've spent 10 seconds in a plane? Why are you even in this thread? Is it envy? You contribute nothing to the topic. Either contribute to the topic, or please do us all a favor and leave.

I am one of the (more vocal) public advocates for pilots everywhere, which is the reason I make such an issue out of plane balance. Why should I (and others) have to accept your opinion and accept MEDIOCRITY, from a game. I'm not a mediocre person, and I'm not about to accept mediocre air combat in a game I otherwise enjoy, when DICE can fix this problem in about THREE MINUTES OF CODING. Copy J-10 code, past over other fighters, Copy Su-30 code, paste over other bombers. Dot the i and cross the t and you're done. Wow, air combat just got 100000% better and now maps like Wake 2007 are balanced and are no longer one-sided all you can eat J-10 buffets.

Oooo, ouch Princess, how are you going to respond to that one? Wait, let me save you the trouble, you can just copy and paste the below.

"PlaneWhore I expected such a response, and as such I will grace your post with an answer.

I have nothing positive to contribute to this thread, but you are an egomaniac and go play a flight simulator. I'm an idiot bye.."

Are we done here?

[Hu.Z_of_PLA]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

planewhore is quite a character.

[imported_RingMasTeR]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

planewhore is quite a character.

QFT


He's right though... The Jian-10 needs a swing from the nerf bat. I've heard the Eurofighter handles like a F-18 clone, anyway. So just do the same for the J-10 and let us have a more clean cut playing field. I'd rather have a bunch of F-18 clones than J-10 clones tbh. But that's just me.

Oh and increase the ceiling too, k thx.

[Princess_Frosty]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

Princess, you're confusing the concept of "fine tuned balance" or "subtle balances", with my suggestions, which are essentially "FFS, just make all the planes the same!". Pretty simple. Even the rocket scientists working for DICE can figure that one out. And why shouldn't I suspect to get what I want? It's clear to me now DICE listens to people on the forums, and I personally have no doubt they read a few of my posts and perhaps even took the time to watch my dogfighting satire. How can you be so sure one of the developers from DICE won't read this thread and say "Hey, that's a really good idea, I think I'll bring that up at the next brainstorming session".

You have a far too oversimplistic view on balance, the truth is that most of the major balance is done in the game design stage and then it is fine tuned during play testing afterwards, you cannot make massive changes in the way the game is balanced such as the ones you're now suggesting, because they have much broader effect.

Your main problems are:

1) (I suspect) you mainly fly and the changes you're asking for are only in the context of air to air, they have no forethought when it concerns the overall battlefield, other factors are taken into account when balacing the WHOLE GAME, not just your little plane world
2) You are far above average skill when it comes to flying, which gives you a skewed view on the actual reality of things, which for the masses is assuming people are of an average skill, the planes are balanced as such.

Good evidence of this you provided yourself, a self proclaimed "pro" posting videos of himself relentlessly rapeing bases, how is this any kind of proof for balancing coming from someone who boasts he's really that good.

I want a well balanced game. Don't tell me to "go play a flight sim" because I'll tell you right back to go play counterstrike if all you enjoy is running around on Karkand like some mindless automaton. I'm dynamic. I fly planes, I pilot helicopters, I drive tanks, I pound the ground, which gives me a very balance perspective on this game.

I enjoy a balanced game as much as the next person, I play all facets of the game fairly reguarly, probably the planes the least because I don't have any means to plug in my old joystick and I'm not shelling out money for a new one right now. But is suspect you being a balanced player is a bit of a lie, i'd like a link to your stats so I can see what you spend your time doing.

And when I fly a plane, I get to interact with real people, on big servers. If I wanted to fly a nonstop flight from LA to NYC then flight sims might be a better option, or maybe if I wanted calcuate a ballistic forumla to make my bombs land spot on, again a flight simulator would be a better game.

This is the biggest copout i've ever seen, possibly ever. First of all I'd have thought you would have had the common sense to realise that I was talking about combat flight simulators not commercial airline simulators.

When you say like to "interact with real people" on servers what you actually mean is that you like to think you're so good you can fly around in a game asset which is overpowered and constantly rape the enemy into the ground and think you're some kind of flying pro. Yeah you're good but go and play a proper flight combat simulator and you'd get your ass handed to you, and you know that.

This thread is far from rubbish, in fact I think it's the only thread I've ever posted where about 95% of the people who read are actually in full agreeance with me. Either you're protecting your advantage and enjoy flying the J-10 Princess, or you're an idiot (I suspect at least this part to be correct).

I hardly ever fly, so no im not protecting any advantage.

So through deductive logic meakes me an idiot, it's nice to see I'm not the only one in this thread clever enough to see that you're trying to position yourself such that anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot, using your skill and experience in planes as your primary backing reason to get people to agree with you, yet simultaneously trying to argue you're a balanced player.

Fortunatly i've had enough experience working on games and mods to know that the kind of balance you're asking for isn't going to happen, the issue of balance is only an issue in the top few percent of players who use the plane so effectivly and DICE and making the game for the masses, not the top few pro's. Not to mention such sweeping changes have gross knock on effects with the overall total balance of the game.

That is not to say that game is perfectly balanced, I'm almost certainly sure its not balanced, but it's balanced enough so that the masses (the average joe) can jump in the game and enjoy themselfs. Just for the record I now have close to 300 hours in the game and the majorety of people who i see in planes crash them into tree's can't bomb to save their lives and mostly cannot hit AA emplacements at half a kilometer away.

Again I will reitterate that if you want balance in only air to air and constant attention to how the dynamics of the planes work then you need to be playing a (combat) flight simulator.

[Hu.Z_of_PLA]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

a very simple solution: make F35 more diffcult to get locked on and has better missiles.

[TheGhost]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

You have a far too oversimplistic view on balance, the truth is that most of the major balance is done in the game design stage and then it is fine tuned during play testing afterwards, you cannot make massive changes in the way the game is balanced such as the ones you're now suggesting, because they have much broader effect.

Your main problems are:

1) (I suspect) you mainly fly and the changes you're asking for are only in the context of air to air, they have no forethought when it concerns the overall battlefield, other factors are taken into account when balacing the WHOLE GAME, not just your little plane world
2) You are far above average skill when it comes to flying, which gives you a skewed view on the actual reality of things, which for the masses is assuming people are of an average skill, the planes are balanced as such.

Good evidence of this you provided yourself, a self proclaimed "pro" posting videos of himself relentlessly rapeing bases, how is this any kind of proof for balancing coming from someone who boasts he's really that good.




I enjoy a balanced game as much as the next person, I play all facets of the game fairly reguarly, probably the planes the least because I don't have any means to plug in my old joystick and I'm not shelling out money for a new one right now. But is suspect you being a balanced player is a bit of a lie, i'd like a link to your stats so I can see what you spend your time doing.



This is the biggest copout i've ever seen, possibly ever. First of all I'd have thought you would have had the common sense to realise that I was talking about combat flight simulators not commercial airline simulators.

When you say like to "interact with real people" on servers what you actually mean is that you like to think you're so good you can fly around in a game asset which is overpowered and constantly rape the enemy into the ground and think you're some kind of flying pro. Yeah you're good but go and play a proper flight combat simulator and you'd get your ass handed to you, and you know that.



I hardly ever fly, so no im not protecting any advantage.

So through deductive logic meakes me an idiot, it's nice to see I'm not the only one in this thread clever enough to see that you're trying to position yourself such that anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot, using your skill and experience in planes as your primary backing reason to get people to agree with you, yet simultaneously trying to argue you're a balanced player.

Fortunatly i've had enough experience working on games and mods to know that the kind of balance you're asking for isn't going to happen, the issue of balance is only an issue in the top few percent of players who use the plane so effectivly and DICE and making the game for the masses, not the top few pro's. Not to mention such sweeping changes have gross knock on effects with the overall total balance of the game.

That is not to say that game is perfectly balanced, I'm almost certainly sure its not balanced, but it's balanced enough so that the masses (the average joe) can jump in the game and enjoy themselfs. Just for the record I now have close to 300 hours in the game and the majorety of people who i see in planes crash them into tree's can't bomb to save their lives and mostly cannot hit AA emplacements at half a kilometer away.

Again I will reitterate that if you want balance in only air to air and constant attention to how the dynamics of the planes work then you need to be playing a (combat) flight simulator.

Look, this shouldn't be such a hard concept for you to understand, not sure why you are struggling so much.

We are talking about giving all the planes the same flight model, this in no way affects their relationship with the ground, only each other. There are no "far reaching balancing issues" with the rest of the game, it's simply about plane to plane. Right now there is one plane that gets God mode against other planes because it can dodge missles, this is not balanced. Like I said before, how would you feel if they gave one tank twice as much armor as the rest of the tanks?

[TheGhost]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

a very simple solution: make F35 more diffcult to get locked on and has better missiles.

That would be a good way to go. The only way you can have a balanced system where the planes each handle differently is to have different weapons on each. The US jets would get better missles that could lock on at greater range. The Mig and J-10 would get less powerful missles (3 hits for a kill instead of 2) and they would only be able to get a lock at closer range. I would also lower them to 4 missles instead of 6, but would give them a more powerful cannon.

***HOWEVER***

The chances of DICE putting this much work into the system is beyond unlikely, and even if they tried it would take them half a dozen patches before they got it right. The simplest answer is to give each plane the same flight model, and at this point I would be happy to settle for that.

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

You have a far too oversimplistic view on balance, the truth is that most of the major balance is done in the game design stage and then it is fine tuned during play testing afterwards, you cannot make massive changes in the way the game is balanced such as the ones you're now suggesting

You cannot make massive changes to a games balance afterwards? Hello, have you been been playing Battlefield 2 for the past few months?

if im playing a map where you're ever flying around nailing 100% of the landing boats on wake 2007 then i'll just leave the server, and join another where theres not someone doing that

This perfectly sums up the difference between you and me "Princess". I give a virtually flawless yet realistic and easy to implement solution that will solve said problem. Whereas you will just take a dump on someone elses thread, provide absolutely no constructive comments, and then (my favorite part), if you get on a server with a pilot like me raping the U.S. team because of said imbalance we are trying to help fix, you'll just leave the server. Ok Princess looks like you've got all the angles covered. Just leave the server. LOL classic.

Fortunatly i've had enough experience working on games and mods to know that the kind of balance you're asking for isn't going to happen,

Like? Wait before you tell me.. let me guess.. Daikatana? Wait.. no... Extreme Paintbrawl?

Not to mention such sweeping changes have gross knock on effects with the overall total balance of the game.

You're flat out wrong. Name ONE single item that would be effected by my proposed change. ONE item Princess, you can do it, just one.

if you want balance in only air to air and constant attention to how the dynamics of the planes work then you need to be playing a (combat) flight simulator.

Wait, so if I want to understand balance in an arcade shooter with vehicles, I have to play a hardcore flight simulator game with a 900 page manual? Uh. Do I have to fly a real plane too? Apples and oranges Princess.

That was almost painful to type, please do not waste my time again Princess, vacate my thread immediately, you aren't even worth the molocules of my mousewheel that eroded off scrolling past your post. In the future please use my tiny little preprepared message I made for you Princess because it basically said the same exact thing you said with that forum novel.

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

Look, this shouldn't be such a hard concept for you to understand, not sure why you are struggling so much.

I'm curious about this too.

[Scotty]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

For the first time, I agree with PW.

The missles seemed to be somewhat fixed at this point, but the J-10 is pretty much invincible in the skies now because of it's turning ability. While the majority of players are just casual players and will never make full use of any of the jets abilities, it doesn't change the fact that one half decent pilot in a J-10 can make life absolute hell for the other team. A good pilot should be allowed to wreck havoc on the opposite team, but as a result of some flying skills, not a superior jet.

When flying against the typical pilot, I didn't have any problems shooting down a J-10 because they really don't have the good sense to use it to it's full potential. For those pilots that do, it's deadly.

I don't see how making the jets all more or less similar (regardless of how boring that may be) would have any effect on the balance of the game concerning the ground. They will still drop bombs on the heads of armor and ground pounders, but they will be more balanced in the air.

I'd love to see faster acceleration/deceleration on the jets, but I won't keep my fingers crossed. Just some simple code changes to change the handling of the planes would make a big difference.

A fighter should always be able to take down a bomber in a dogfight unless the pilot in the bomber is just better skilled. I don't mind the fighters being better than the bombers, but each team should have the benefit of a fighter on their side to counter the other fighter and help protect their bomber.

[Princess_Frosty]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

*edit*

I origonaly posted a lot of reasoning but I've decided that planewhore will marginalise it all, avoid the facts, or simply skip past it, or not really read it.

It would be far simpler to remove it all, drop to his level of simplicity and say this:

DICE have not and will not impliment planewhores idea, until they do I will remain right and you'll be wasting your time.

[Jesse]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

They need to see your PKM video and they need to read this post.

They just need to see the game, I think that would help a lot. With the way their balance "fixes" go, I doubt any speculation that the people who coded it and made the decisions actually played the game either before or after the patch.

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: The single biggest balance issues that remains in Battlefield 2 - the J-10

And that my friends, is what they call "dodging the tough questions".