Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Err 70-0 how come you started flying a different plane then?

Half way through the round the U.S captured our airbase, eventually I ran out of ammo in my J-10 but right before I was totally out I managed to shoot down the F-18 that spawned at our base, I parachuted down when it respawned, killed the pilot waiting with my infantry skills I'm not supposed to have, and stole the F-18.

As the video is in chronological order (both the airplane and helicopter sections) you can easily confirm this by looking at the map.

[vbl]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Let's imagine that your pilot got ten kills. That makes 42 kills total divided by two equals 21. 21 kills per person. That isn't a stellar score by far and I'm guessing that you usually do worse.

Do not forget that the helo gunner should get double the score of any single vehicle for it to be worth it. Otherwise you are just wasting space.

And to those who say that flying the helo is easy how come I've only seen barely ten really good (the kind of good that nails single infantrymen with one or two FFAR's) pilots so far in this game? How come I've only been ripped apart by helos a couple of times? Not once have I seen a helo that couldn't be taken down with a .50 cal. I would estimate that more than 70% of the helos pairs I come across fail to nail me on the first pass. I almost never se a helo that has mastered the "art" of circling so the gunner can open up with the cannon.

More or less wtf are some of you talking about?

Seriously?

I make the kills that matter. 32 timely, meaningful kills are far more important than 64 pointless, self-serving ones. All of you score-obsessed folks need to get with the program.

All it takes it a little respect for the threats - fly cautiously and with your infantry support and guess what? Your team helps take care of those baddies manning AA and .50 cals. We ace the armor. It's harmony.

[WarGimp]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Seriously?

I make the kills that matter. 32 timely, meaningful kills are far more important than 64 pointless, self-serving ones. All of you score-obsessed folks need to get with the program.

All it takes it a little respect for the threats - fly cautiously and with your infantry support and guess what? Your team helps take care of those baddies manning AA and .50 cals. We ace the armor. It's harmony.

If you can bag and average of 3 kills per flight, you're doing well by your team. That's assuming you tag the medics to prevent revives, ofcource.

Or if you frag a tank that could/would have gone on to kill 6 of your teammates, you've likewise served your team.

Point is, yeah, there's more going on during a game than points. If you're a teamplayer, you think about these things.

[Sloi sauce]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

I generally focus on other helos and ground vehicles: that way, infantry is free to engage other infantry 1:1...

[Alcorr]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Your team helps take care of those baddies manning AA and .50 cals.

Team? WHAT team?

All you guys who claim to be such experts and always claim that your team can do so much are just full of $hit.

As a heli pilot I always take out guys decapping points, help capture points when im not under heavy fire....etc....

But you honestly cannot say....o well if you TEAM kills all the AA then you will be fine. If that actually happened on a regular basis then sure.....

Let me give you some truth.

In public servers i.e. RANKED servers i.e. the only place where 99.99% of people actually play....there isn't exactly great team spirit/teamwork.

Honestly, you can get with buddies, and set up squads and the like....but never enough to consitently and constantly kill every single AA thing on the map. And all it takes is one noob friendly stinger to take down the best chopper pilots.

Not to mention that game balance shouldn't rely on the ASSUMPTION that your team is always helping you out by killing off the AA....because that might sound good in theory in all.

But in real practice that would never work.

Like I said before, on a public server, no one could ever coordinate the ground infantry and armor well enough to take down all the AA so the aircraft can kill tanks....

It just plain doesn't happen, wake up out of your dreamworld and hear the truth!

O yeah and before heli vs. heli combat was interesting, your gunner needed to use the tv missile if you wanted to take out the guy easy.

Now its a joke, its maybe 4 or 5 missiles and the other guy is gone.

Realistic? Sure.

Fun? No....

NICE post

same here i never even really complained over the Blackhawk for example sure it sucked when people get together and capped flages but I just thought its team work and it was always fun to take the whole 6 people out. With anti tank and or with c4 on the flags which right now you cant do beacuse no jump/shoot. but simple tweak was to limit repair time and the whole not able to cap until on ground which should of been done in the first place beacuse the game just ends to fast .Not everything is balanced and if it was game would be boring

Sames goes for jets/helis even tanks/apc. Was annoying but was also fun. example I would go to the airfiled and base rape with anti tank on the jets/helis before they can take off or when they try to repair Or with tanks apc when they all get together to self repair each other i would toss some c4 over and take both of them out which now you cant do

sure the game needed some tweaks with this or that but not 8-13 changes on one thing. Or take one thing and just over do it.

If you play the demo and then play the final. its a whole different game

edit; I still dont understand why helis have such a large nerf when in the first place they were never a problem. Did anyone have problems with them? All i thought needed was shorted tv and some better AA and probably a tank shot should take an attack chopper out on fire.. before it was 1 shot 3 bars which is fine and all but if you are flying and get hit then you should die beacuse its not easy to hit with a tank but other then that I thought they were sometimes a pain like tanks and apcs but nothing over board. Jets seems to get no real change just that air to air//

sounds like many people are really misunderstanding the topic.. saying you can own and get points and etc etc balba

again im sure it will change..

O yeah, I never complained about the BH or the BH guns either, quite annoying, but you just had to deal with it.

O and to the argument that aircraft are balanced because they still get highest scores heres something:

When it takes zero skill to shoot someone down that has spent many hours developing skill in that area....in a game....something is wrong.

Period, end of story, goodbye.

EDIT: If they developed something that took skill to use and choppers were owned even worse (by people that were expert with the AA) I wouldn't complain at all.

Main point: Almost nil human interaction with S2A missiles = bad....you just can't argue with that....no...don't even try.

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

If they developed something that took skill to use and choppers were owned even worse (by people that were expert with the AA) I wouldn't complain at all.

I couldn't have put it better myself, and I feel exactly the same way. If I'm beaten by a superior player, on some level I actually enjoy it because I realize that kind of competition is the reason I play these type of games.

For example, I was playing infantry yesterday on Karkand and I was having a very good round, mowing down enemy after enemy with my PKM, but this one player on the enemy team killed me 4 or 5 times that round (over half my total deaths) but it didn't bother me one bit because I knew I was bested by this player everytime, and that he had earned and deserved the right to kill me through superior reflexes and a more accurate aim. I got him a couple times too, and even when I killed him, and vice versa, you could sense that mutual respect from one player to another, enemy or not. The same thing used to apply to airplanes, where skill was the only real factor in determining the winner of a dogfight, and in my opinion even more so than infantry combat because there is a lot more to piloting than just pointing and shooting, but unfortunately that is no longer case. In ten minutes, I could teach a ten year old to shoot me down with 100% success as long as they have the J-10 and I have a less maneuverable plane. I'm afraid to say that I'm being perfectly honest here, and that it really is that bad in 1.2 currently.

And please, screw making FPS shooter hybrids like BF2 more "accessible" to less talented individuals. Without constant challenge, and competition for me I find these games to be unfulfilling and pointless (which is part of the reason I stopped flying over three months ago in 1.12). The FPS is the one single genre in gaming that should remain a skill based competition where the winner is decided by tactics, strategy, and pure raw hand eye coordination coupled with lightning fast reflexes. If anyone playing BF2 wants the game to be decided by a roll of the DICE (pardon the pun) then may I recommend a different type of game such as an RPG or perhaps a good old fashion card game. Most of the games out there on the market do not require the "twitch" that all FPS players have.

[The Soup Nazi]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

I did some experimenting tonight on Gulf of Oman with the SU-34. When under missile lock, I would lower my thrust to 0- effectively cutting off the heat source. As I almost suspected, the missiles glanced off of my jet and sought out another target. I tried the same tactic with the Mig-29 and F35B, but it didn't work as well.

Just thought I'd let you all know of my findings.

PlaneWhore, I understand what you're saying about how the game shouldn't have been changed to be more accessible to a larger audience- especially now that the game has been out for more than 6 months. CS/CSS have been out for years and the game, despite many patches and iterations, remains the same for the most part. The guns may have changed in appearance, but the accuracy and technique needed for using them effectively have not changed. Why did the PKM in BF2, for instance, need such heavy tweaking this late in the game? Shouldn't the accuracy have been set appropriately from the get-go?

[General_CoLin]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

...I'm not look(ing) for an easy ride in the heli's but patch 1.2 has gone too far in nerfing the airforce. ...

How can you argue that the air forces are nerfed when they still own everything? You can score more points more easily and faster with aircraft (helo's and jets) than any other vehicle, regardless of player class, in the game... Almost all the other weapons/vehicles in the game are countered by a specific class of player but the air forces are countered by static defenses and a special AA vehicles that is a sitting duck to most ground forces.

Plus when you use aircraft ground targets are labeled X's for friendlies, and Squares for enemy's so all an enemy jet has to do is dive in on top of an enemy flag and he's likely to find a green box and either bomb it or strafe it getting a kill. That is no harder than pointing an AA site at a jet, waiting for flares to come out, relock, fire, watch fireworks.

If the jets were being locked onto from the max visual range and destroyed way before they had a chance to attack then you'd have something to argue, but aircraft are still the most powerful weapon in the game and wrack up plenty of points. They are not as powerful as before, thank god, but they still own everything, the difference now is that they can be shot down with AA very easily, which seems balanced since they can kill ground targets very easily.

You want the missles to be less effective? Deal, you just have to give up those nice green reticles in ground attack mode that make it so easy to target enemies. You want more hitpoints in the helo? Deal, you just have to give AA sites longer lock on ranges.

People, like yourself, who don't like the air power should go play CS or Quake or something. BF2 has land and air vehicles. Land and air vehicles have more killing power than a single troop and hence if a good pilot/driver is at the controls then people are going to die. I mean, whats next, dumb down the tanks, apc's. Like I said, go play CS.

[Geiger]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

To all those who said that flying in circles was the best way to avoid other planes or make them annoyed enough to leave pre-1.2, the J10 is essentially unkillable by doing this very simple manuever. no other plane can turn tightly enough to even acquire lock, and it is also this factor that makes the J10 able to kill anything in the sky with even a mediocre pilot at the controls.

[Mahoro]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

I am not goint to read 12 pages.
But I do hit some j-10 tho
For the wake island, I always spawn either the 1st and 2nd (due to having 2GB RAM )
Then I will get on a jet, fly to the airfield and that's when the J10 starts taking off....
A few presss on button and it gone

[Kattspya]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Seriously?
I make the kills that matter. 32 timely, meaningful kills are far more important than 64 pointless, self-serving ones. All of you score-obsessed folks need to get with the program.

64 kills inluding the odd tank is much more valuable than 32 kills. It's also not about score obsession it's about being certain that the gunner gets twice the score of a tanker of equal skill.

All it takes it a little respect for the threats - fly cautiously and with your infantry support and guess what? Your team helps take care of those baddies manning AA and .50 cals. We ace the armor. It's harmony.

You don't need to lecture me on how to fly and I can tell you that your method won't get you alot of yummy armour. The helo clears the way for the infantry not the other way around. Go in take out the AA, kill the tanks and rape the infantry.

The day I've got Buddha/Alven/Jacc0t in the helo on zatar and only getting 32 kills is the day I stop flying.

[DrJambo]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

All this talk about skill is ridiculous. A2A and AA are heatseeking missiles, they're always going to be point and click. The skill isn't in the pointing and clicking, although one could argue that's not entirely true, the skill's in the timing and the tracking and also in whether the target is able to use the terrain and flares to avoid being hit..

And Alcorr, sometimes I wonder why you even play the game. Good chopper pilots can avoid the AA, or failing that certainly have a chance in taking the AA site out before they take you down. For jet pilots and AA sites it's even easier for them. The bigger problem for helo pilots is now enemy jets.

What I'd also say is a major issue is the balance of some maps in the way they were designed. Helos have it hard on Wake mainly because the jets have it too easy and the map's too small. There's no mobile AA to hurt the jets more and there's simply nowhere to hide for the helos. Try playing Daqing Oilfields as a change - it is one of the better balanced and most enjoyable maps now.

Regards

[jakswan]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Ok PW, I think we're playing two different games. I'm a top 200 ranked pilot and lets say for arguement that this is true, and lets say your the best their is.

I know for a fact that the number of times I'd play a game with the last patch and meet a pilot that could touch me at dogfighting was maybe 1/10, now your the best their is (for the sake of arguement). Heck it's game over 99% of the time.

Now I can only dominate 6/10 as the number of pilots that can compete has gone up. That is better for everyone, the guys on the ground, chopper pilots, everyone, as your less likely to have a team with a dominant air force.

BF2 to me is an FPS, with lots of hardware around, it's not a flying simulation. So the bottom line is you want to make it more elitist and I don't.

[vbl]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

64 kills inluding the odd tank is much more valuable than 32 kills. It's also not about score obsession it's about being certain that the gunner gets twice the score of a tanker of equal skill.

That is the most arbitrary, pointless standard I've heard of. The number of kills is contingent on a variety of factors, including the preferences and skill level of the other team, teamkills, accidental rams, number of players, map size, whether or not we were able to get the helicopter for the entire round, etc. - many of which you can never control. Dumb.

Nevermind that 1.2 is a different world, and the days of playtime in the attack helicopter are over. But hell, what do I know - I just pulled 51-3 on Sharqi gunning in the Cobra, of all things.

You don't need to lecture me on how to fly and I can tell you that your method won't get you alot of yummy armour. The helo clears the way for the infantry not the other way around. Go in take out the AA, kill the tanks and rape the infantry.

We nailed a lot of armor - after all, it's our job. We wax the armor, they watch the G2A threats. It takes a team to win... not a helo clearing the way like some magical snowplow.

The day I've got Buddha/Alven/Jacc0t in the helo on zatar and only getting 32 kills is the day I stop flying.

When is the day that you stop acting like an assbag?

[DrJambo]

Re: Highway to the Boredom Zone, a pilots perspective on the 1.2 patch

Good post jakswan. This is an fps not a flight sim - people die, and that should include pro-pilots.